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Praise the Lord!

Gospel said:
The only thing I can think of that would make living for eternity not turn into hell after a trillion eons is if the purpose of living forever is to spend it trying to learn what God is. To finally know all that there is to know. Heck, maybe that's God's plan. It's possible this multiverse of ours isn't God's only creation and he's trying his damn best to create something that can figure him out so he can quit and hand the position over. :ROFLMAO:
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That's... Interestingly similar to Mormonism.

In that dogma, the point is to learn enough about managing a family and not being shitty to that which you create so as to be selected as a god of your own universe.

Personally, I would rather this be about learning how a universe goes together well enough to invent a physics and "see what happens when..."

It's almost assuredly not...

But it would be nice to essentially spend as long as I wish creating new games to understand, figure out, and be involved in.
 
Gospel said:
The only thing I can think of that would make living for eternity not turn into hell after a trillion eons is if the purpose of living forever is to spend it trying to learn what God is.
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I think in Christianity their minds would be modified - that way it is possible to feel pleasure constantly without building a tolerance. They would also have feelings of boredom removed. And maybe lose memories or have their minds turn to mush like in Heaven in "The Good Place" Netflix show.
Gospel said:
To finally know all that there is to know. Heck, maybe that's God's plan. It's possible this multiverse of ours isn't God's only creation and he's trying his damn best to create something that can figure him out so he can quit and hand the position over. :ROFLMAO:
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I prefer Alan Watts' dream thought experiment where you begin God-like (I interpret that as being in a simulation) then eventually you remember your God-like abilities.
 
Jarhyn said:
Gospel said:
The only thing I can think of that would make living for eternity not turn into hell after a trillion eons is if the purpose of living forever is to spend it trying to learn what God is. To finally know all that there is to know. Heck, maybe that's God's plan. It's possible this multiverse of ours isn't God's only creation and he's trying his damn best to create something that can figure him out so he can quit and hand the position over. :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
That's... Interestingly similar to Mormonism.

In that dogma, the point is to learn enough about managing a family and not being shitty to that which you create so as to be selected as a god of your own universe.

Personally, I would rather this be about learning how a universe goes together well enough to invent a physics and "see what happens when..."

It's almost assuredly not...

But it would be nice to essentially spend as long as I wish creating new games to understand, figure out, and be involved in.
Click to expand...
Science is about how the universe as it is goes together. Physics is a creation o the human mind which is comprised of atoms created by stellar processes.

The universe is not well enough, it just is.

Looking at it as a simulation or video game is just a new metaphor and creation myth.

Praise be the Holy Cosmic Coder who gave us all life.
 
steve_bank said:
Jarhyn said:
Gospel said:
The only thing I can think of that would make living for eternity not turn into hell after a trillion eons is if the purpose of living forever is to spend it trying to learn what God is. To finally know all that there is to know. Heck, maybe that's God's plan. It's possible this multiverse of ours isn't God's only creation and he's trying his damn best to create something that can figure him out so he can quit and hand the position over. :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
That's... Interestingly similar to Mormonism.

In that dogma, the point is to learn enough about managing a family and not being shitty to that which you create so as to be selected as a god of your own universe.

Personally, I would rather this be about learning how a universe goes together well enough to invent a physics and "see what happens when..."

It's almost assuredly not...

But it would be nice to essentially spend as long as I wish creating new games to understand, figure out, and be involved in.
Click to expand...
Science is about how the universe as it is goes together. Physics is a creation o the human mind which is comprised of atoms created by stellar processes.

The universe is not well enough, it just is.

Looking at it as a simulation or video game is just a new metaphor and creation myth.

Praise be the Holy Cosmic Coder who gave us all life.
Click to expand...
Well, I think my point in several threads and in relation to religion in general is that there is no reason to praise coders, because you don't have to be good, or ethical, or responsible, or worth a damn to anyone or your creations to be a coder.

Not a new creation myth, per SE, but a new way of debunking claims that we ought "worship".

There are a series of set interactions, ways the stuff of the universe becomes configured as a result of the previous way things were configured. That doesn't need someone necessarily to sit down and create a mechanism that behaves "just so".

I have also observed with my own eyes systems assembled which have a different foundational operation of "just so".

We can describe and implement the laws of our physics on a computer with all kinds of math. Eventually we may be able to perfectly describe the system of mathematical operations which our apparent universe operates by.

But this also implies something else: that we may in fact be able to define different mathematical operations that when combined in such a different way, still yield interesting stuff happening in this "different physics".

I assert that we already have done this with our binary memory fields and our computing infrastructures.

The staggering scale of all of this is one of the reasons I would say anyone who says positively that it is a simulation or "hosted" universe or whatever terminology you would use needs to quit putting their weight on fantasies. To such, I say either bring me proof, and I describe what that is, or quit bothering me about it please.

But that doesn't change the fact that creating whole new physical systems from pure math and implementing them is "something to do with the time" and possibly even "artistic".
 
There is the universe as it is.

How we describe it isa function of our bains. How yiu describe it does not chage the universe. The limitaion is how our brains are wired and the limtaions of language.

Saying the universe is a simulation is as good a myth as any other. If it works for you hen good for youFraming it in pseudoscience is not unique or original. Yahweh works for some.

Some of us do not need to invent creation myths. We can simply say we do not know and be comfortable with not knowing.
 
I know I'm a little late, and the topic plate has been passed around the table a few times already, but I had a thought that might be of interest.

I've always (or at least since renouncing my faith when I was in my teens) associated these weird mind games that theists play with a much deeper mental break that is almost always self-inflicted. To start, what I mean by mind games is the mindless acceptance of facts, the seemingly emotional response to praise music and the internalization of religious texts leading to a manifestation of someone who is "enlightened" or otherwise of proper authority to speak on religious matters as if they can explain things that for thousands of years, the worlds top intellects couldn't fathom. From the various hand positions christians use when singing praise music, to speaking in tongues, to giant schemes on TV from mega pastors who make millions by convincing people that they need to commit $100/month so that he/she can send them a bottle of holy water to spread over their door frame to ensure a safe and prosperous household.

These things and more are perfect examples of how religion can poison one's mind to an extent which they're willing to compromise every moral and intellectual value they have to account for their belief. In my mind, it must be a deeply mental loophole that pastors, musicians, tv hosts, and probably most religious leaders have learned to exploit. Some loose screw in the human mind to allow the participation of a vastly unlikely and unsupported belief in a god, and all the lifestyle effects that follow. Of course, there is science to this! These beliefs and the participation of the practice is literally a mind-bending operation to keep those followers believing and to entice non-believers to convert. There are rewards and threats of eternal punishment involved and several moral-twisting ideals that followers will do/say anything to support, no matter how nefarious.

I once worked as a sound engineer (the guy that stands behind the mixer board at concerts and makes everything sound good to the audience). I was apart of my church's crew and at a secular youth group that held concerts and speakers to serve as a positive influence to the kids of the community. I was approached by someone at an event one time who asked me about my sound profile for the band that was playing and began explaining how he had been to college for praise and worship sound. When I asked what in the world that was, he said it's basically sound engineering school, but for religious groups. They teach you how to mix music during certain progressions and how to mix music in with speakers going through an emotionally-pulling part of their speech/program. These practices are specifically designed to present the sound to the human mind in a way that activates or triggers certain emotional responses to make the message more impregnating to the listener. When I told him that sounded a little like brainwashing and hypnosis, he said, "you're right" and smiled in a way that made me question the bigger picture.

It's a little like politics to me. Behind the average Joe dragging his kids to church on a wednesday night, or scrounging up hundreds of dollars to send his kids to a sham called "Vacation Bible School", there is a much more nefarious and interconnected ring of people exploiting others for.........forrrrr......???? You guessed it, money. A bit like how behind the average Joesephine going to to polling booth to cast a vote for a political leader, there is a much more dense set of events in the background that play a much larger role in the election of a candidate than her measly vote.

Makes you wonder about the future. It's obvious that religious beliefs and political corruption will continue to result in societal turmoil regardless of how many people there are on the other side. The more opposition and resistance to the plight, the stronger they become. When will all this come to a head? And what will the consequences be to humanity?
 
mattsidedish said:
I know I'm a little late, and the topic plate has been passed around the table a few times already, but I had a thought that might be of interest.

I've always (or at least since renouncing my faith when I was in my teens) associated these weird mind games that theists play with a much deeper mental break that is almost always self-inflicted. To start, what I mean by mind games is the mindless acceptance of facts, the seemingly emotional response to praise music and the internalization of religious texts leading to a manifestation of someone who is "enlightened" or otherwise of proper authority to speak on religious matters as if they can explain things that for thousands of years, the worlds top intellects couldn't fathom. From the various hand positions christians use when singing praise music, to speaking in tongues, to giant schemes on TV from mega pastors who make millions by convincing people that they need to commit $100/month so that he/she can send them a bottle of holy water to spread over their door frame to ensure a safe and prosperous household.

These things and more are perfect examples of how religion can poison one's mind to an extent which they're willing to compromise every moral and intellectual value they have to account for their belief. In my mind, it must be a deeply mental loophole that pastors, musicians, tv hosts, and probably most religious leaders have learned to exploit. Some loose screw in the human mind to allow the participation of a vastly unlikely and unsupported belief in a god, and all the lifestyle effects that follow. Of course, there is science to this! These beliefs and the participation of the practice is literally a mind-bending operation to keep those followers believing and to entice non-believers to convert. There are rewards and threats of eternal punishment involved and several moral-twisting ideals that followers will do/say anything to support, no matter how nefarious.

I once worked as a sound engineer (the guy that stands behind the mixer board at concerts and makes everything sound good to the audience). I was apart of my church's crew and at a secular youth group that held concerts and speakers to serve as a positive influence to the kids of the community. I was approached by someone at an event one time who asked me about my sound profile for the band that was playing and began explaining how he had been to college for praise and worship sound. When I asked what in the world that was, he said it's basically sound engineering school, but for religious groups. They teach you how to mix music during certain progressions and how to mix music in with speakers going through an emotionally-pulling part of their speech/program. These practices are specifically designed to present the sound to the human mind in a way that activates or triggers certain emotional responses to make the message more impregnating to the listener. When I told him that sounded a little like brainwashing and hypnosis, he said, "you're right" and smiled in a way that made me question the bigger picture.

It's a little like politics to me. Behind the average Joe dragging his kids to church on a wednesday night, or scrounging up hundreds of dollars to send his kids to a sham called "Vacation Bible School", there is a much more nefarious and interconnected ring of people exploiting others for.........forrrrr......???? You guessed it, money. A bit like how behind the average Joesephine going to to polling booth to cast a vote for a political leader, there is a much more dense set of events in the background that play a much larger role in the election of a candidate than her measly vote.

Makes you wonder about the future. It's obvious that religious beliefs and political corruption will continue to result in societal turmoil regardless of how many people there are on the other side. The more opposition and resistance to the plight, the stronger they become. When will all this come to a head? And what will the consequences be to humanity?
Click to expand...
This screw is, in fact, the "argument from authority."

I'm not sure it's something we can dispense with, but rather manipulation of it must be inoculated against.

The evolutionary basis of it is rather simple: everyone is born in ignorance and most people die having not moved much past it.

Actual intelligence is fairly rare, to the point where in antiquity, it was exactly as you describe. It is exactly that most people just don't have the time or tools to do anything more than take an authority's word for whatever-it-is.

So people looking to have power bestowed by people ceding authority will learn whatever-it-is at least well enough to regurgitate the pretty sounding (and mostly correct) words that don't cause an immediate visceral rejection over their wrongness, and then once they have established this well enough to be accepted as authority, use that authority for selfish ends.

It's a play almost as old as time.

And it's not even about money, but about power, the feeling felt when someone stands over someone else knowing that the person they stand over is purely at their mercy.

It is a drug that knows no equal.

Of course the answer to this is simply "education in critical thinking skills".
 
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