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Donald the Orange and Family Sued in NY

ideologyhunter said:
His Truth Social will go public next week and start selling shares which "could" net him $3 billion, depending on how sales go. But there's something called a lockout provision that keeps him from selling his own shares or getting loans based on his shares, while it's in effect. The stock symbol is (barf) DJT. So who knows, maybe the Bronze Toddler will benefit from Smokin' Joe's stock market highs.
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I have read that the company's board can let him sell the shares sooner. Seems to me that's the quickest way to trigger lawsuits that might tie up the whole thing for a long time.
 
ZiprHead said:
Loren Pechtel said:
ideologyhunter said:
There are properties they could attach that would devastate Trump -- his golf resorts, Trump Tower -- and there might be a number of attachments, because some (many?) Trump properties are mortgaged and have creditors to pay off. He will be berserk as the process goes on, and the attractive side of that is how completely self-absorbed his speeches will become -- even more so than now, no matter how impossible that sounds. This is the side of Trump that will not bring on the independent voter. They'll see through his bloated claims about his own wealth (which were also at the core of his fraud conviction) and they'll hear nothing from him that sounds like a plan for the country. It will be the shrieking of a selfish little boy. I don't see him as having any self-control over the side of him that wallows in self-pity and fantasies of revenge. We could very well see the deepest, darkest side of Donald if they start to take his treasures away.
I hope.
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I'm actually wondering if they'll end up seizing anything. There's no point in seizing things which are underwater.
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The debt still belongs to Trump. The building will belong to New York.
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That's not my understanding of how such things work.
 
hurtinbuckaroo said:
T.G.G. Moogly said:
ZiprHead said:
The debt still belongs to Trump. The building will belong to New York.
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So if a building worth 100 million has a 70 million dollar note, New York gets 100 million and Orange Loser still owes the 70 million to the lender? Is that right? That sounds perfect to me.
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New York gets what they can sell it for. Not what some desperately interested party might claim it's worth.
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That's the best way to determine what a property is worth.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
ZiprHead said:
Loren Pechtel said:
ideologyhunter said:
There are properties they could attach that would devastate Trump -- his golf resorts, Trump Tower -- and there might be a number of attachments, because some (many?) Trump properties are mortgaged and have creditors to pay off. He will be berserk as the process goes on, and the attractive side of that is how completely self-absorbed his speeches will become -- even more so than now, no matter how impossible that sounds. This is the side of Trump that will not bring on the independent voter. They'll see through his bloated claims about his own wealth (which were also at the core of his fraud conviction) and they'll hear nothing from him that sounds like a plan for the country. It will be the shrieking of a selfish little boy. I don't see him as having any self-control over the side of him that wallows in self-pity and fantasies of revenge. We could very well see the deepest, darkest side of Donald if they start to take his treasures away.
I hope.
Click to expand...
I'm actually wondering if they'll end up seizing anything. There's no point in seizing things which are underwater.
Click to expand...
The debt still belongs to Trump. The building will belong to New York.
Click to expand...
That's not my understanding of how such things work.
Click to expand...
What is your understanding?
 
TomC said:
Can't they just use the assessments Trump gave the government?
You know, on the property tax forms?
Tom
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"$465 million? Why...that's like half what Mar A Lago is worth...if that! I'd value it at 2 billion!"

(Donald J. Trump)
 
ZiprHead said:
Loren Pechtel said:
ZiprHead said:
Loren Pechtel said:
ideologyhunter said:
There are properties they could attach that would devastate Trump -- his golf resorts, Trump Tower -- and there might be a number of attachments, because some (many?) Trump properties are mortgaged and have creditors to pay off. He will be berserk as the process goes on, and the attractive side of that is how completely self-absorbed his speeches will become -- even more so than now, no matter how impossible that sounds. This is the side of Trump that will not bring on the independent voter. They'll see through his bloated claims about his own wealth (which were also at the core of his fraud conviction) and they'll hear nothing from him that sounds like a plan for the country. It will be the shrieking of a selfish little boy. I don't see him as having any self-control over the side of him that wallows in self-pity and fantasies of revenge. We could very well see the deepest, darkest side of Donald if they start to take his treasures away.
I hope.
Click to expand...
I'm actually wondering if they'll end up seizing anything. There's no point in seizing things which are underwater.
Click to expand...
The debt still belongs to Trump. The building will belong to New York.
Click to expand...
That's not my understanding of how such things work.
Click to expand...
What is your understanding?
Click to expand...
Anything secured by the property must be paid first, the creditor only gets what's left.
 
According to this article, mortgaged properties can be seized.

One is a mortgage on Trump Tower, incurred in 2012, that is for over $50 million. Another, for private estate Seven Springs, was incurred in 2000. It is worth between $5 million and $25 million.

40 Wall Street also has a mortgage of over $50 million. James said these properties had "fraudulent" and "misleading" values and could end up being seized.
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www.newsweek.com

Donald Trump's properties have at least $200M in outstanding loans

A number of properties New York Attorney Letitia James could seize, including Trump Tower, have accrued loans, according to financial disclosures.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
Loren Pechtel said:
ZiprHead said:
Loren Pechtel said:
ZiprHead said:
Loren Pechtel said:
ideologyhunter said:
There are properties they could attach that would devastate Trump -- his golf resorts, Trump Tower -- and there might be a number of attachments, because some (many?) Trump properties are mortgaged and have creditors to pay off. He will be berserk as the process goes on, and the attractive side of that is how completely self-absorbed his speeches will become -- even more so than now, no matter how impossible that sounds. This is the side of Trump that will not bring on the independent voter. They'll see through his bloated claims about his own wealth (which were also at the core of his fraud conviction) and they'll hear nothing from him that sounds like a plan for the country. It will be the shrieking of a selfish little boy. I don't see him as having any self-control over the side of him that wallows in self-pity and fantasies of revenge. We could very well see the deepest, darkest side of Donald if they start to take his treasures away.
I hope.
Click to expand...
I'm actually wondering if they'll end up seizing anything. There's no point in seizing things which are underwater.
Click to expand...
The debt still belongs to Trump. The building will belong to New York.
Click to expand...
That's not my understanding of how such things work.
Click to expand...
What is your understanding?
Click to expand...
Anything secured by the property must be paid first, the creditor only gets what's left.
Click to expand...
It will come down to the particular details of New York law. I'm sure this situation comes up often, just not for such a large amount of money. The State collects fines and penalties, but isn't supposed to see the money as a reward or compensation. The goal is to take it away from the transgressor. The Judge may have the power to distribute money to lien holders. In any case, Donald Trump still owes the money to the lender, until that matter is settled, whether he still possesses the collateral, or not.
 
Still no last-minute bailout, like there was in the E. Jean Carroll case. But there is one day to go.

Trump says he could appeal New York fraud case ruling to the Supreme Court

“I’ll fight this all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court if necessary,” in an interview at Fox News.

“They can’t take away your property before you’ve had a chance to appeal the decision of a Trump-hating, incompetent judge who has been overturned more than any judge in the state.” He can't stop being a big baby.

Trump has been unable to get bond for $464 million judgment, his lawyers say
but
Trump claims he has $500 million in cash, undercutting lawyers' claims on bond money

In order to get the case to the Supreme Court, Trump would first have to finish going through the state court appeals process. He's asked a midlevel appeals court, the state Appellate Division, to either reduce the amount of security he has to post or to stay the award with no security while he appeals. The court has yet to rule.
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Seven Springs Estate and Trump Tower among properties New York could seize in fraud case

Inside Trump's 370-acre Seven Springs estate and golf course
At Mt. Kisco, NY, about 40 miles north of NYC.

Why seizing Mar-a-Lago is unrealistic for New York AG Letitia James in Trump bond dispute

Seems like Tish James and Arthur Engoron will go after easier targets, like Trump Tower and Seven Springs.

Who else might we name Trump Tower after? Trump's jumping valuations of his property were brought into public view early in 2019: Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez questions Michael Cohen (C-SPAN) - YouTube

So could the Trump Tower become the Cohen-Ocasio-Cortez-James-Engoron Tower?
 
I think they’ll wait to hear from the appeals court before sending in the sheriff. It’s not he can flee the country with a golf course in his suitcase.
 
ZiprHead said:
According to this article, mortgaged properties can be seized.

One is a mortgage on Trump Tower, incurred in 2012, that is for over $50 million. Another, for private estate Seven Springs, was incurred in 2000. It is worth between $5 million and $25 million.

40 Wall Street also has a mortgage of over $50 million. James said these properties had "fraudulent" and "misleading" values and could end up being seized.
Click to expand...
www.newsweek.com

Donald Trump's properties have at least $200M in outstanding loans

A number of properties New York Attorney Letitia James could seize, including Trump Tower, have accrued loans, according to financial disclosures.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
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Read your own article:
Donald Trump has multiple loans on his properties amounting to at least $200 million, which may devalue their worth and make it less likely that they will be seized to recuperate the costs of his legal fines.
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In other words, they have to pay off the mortgage before they actually get the money.
 
Trump and his fellow idiots have been claiming that the amount of his bond is unprecedented and therefore wrong. But as usual the liars are full of shit.

Fox News Fact-Checks Donald Trump Bond Claim: 'Actually Not True'

During an interview with former federal prosecutor Alex Little on Fox News Live on Sunday, Shawn said: "We've also heard there's a lot of talk about this is unprecedented amount of money. This has never happened before. But that's actually not true. This is from Letitia James, the attorney general's own court papers I'm gonna show it to you right now."

A graphic then appeared on the screen listing multiple court cases with bonds at or over $1 billion, including Sony Music Entertainment v. Cox Communications at $1.2 billion, Apple v. Samsung Electronics at $1 billion, Oracle USA v. SAP AG at $1.3 billion, and Carnegie Mellon University v. Marvell Technology Group at $1.5 billion.

"There have been bigger bonds in the history—look from one billion dollars to one and a half billion dollars," Shawn said. "Those are public companies. What is the argument that this has never been this big for a private company while there have been billion-dollar bonds secured before?"

Little responded: "Yeah, I think that it's certainly true there've been large bonds...the purpose of the bond is to secure those funds for the plaintiff here, the state of New York, at the end of the appeal to make sure they can collect.

"It says, 'Hey if you're if you're a defendant, you want to appeal, you can do that.' But we have to make sure to save the money in case the plaintiff gets to collect it," the ex-prosecutor said.
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The article goes on to say that the bond could be split among different sources, making it much easier to secure.
 
'Sending tremors across this country': Eric Trump slams 'legal lawfare' carried out against father in New York | Fox News
Eric Trump railed against the massive half-billion dollar bond his father must secure in the New York civil fraud case by Monday's deadline or risk having his Empire State assets seized by state Attorney Gen. Letitia James.

"This is legal lawfare," he said during a discussion with Fox News' Maria Bartiromo on Sunday. "This entire case is crazy. You had a runaway judge who just ruled against something that the Appellate Division has already knocked out 85% of this case, but that's not the point…"

"They just want to hurt a man, and they're sending tremors across this country."
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Calling himself a victim.

 Lawfare - law + warfare - using the legal system to attack someone.

Trump’s Deadline to Make $454 Million Bond in Fraud Case is Hours Away - The New York Times - March 25, 2024Updated 8:31 a.m. ET - "If no one will post a bond guaranteeing Donald Trump’s financial obligation, New York’s attorney general can start trying to seize his accounts and properties."
 
NY Appeals court just “gifted” Agent Orange $300,000,000.00 with no explanation, and gave him another ten days. Stinks to high heaven.
 
Trump Can Post Smaller Bond in Civil Fraud Case, Court Rules - The New York Times
With Donald J. Trump on the clock to secure a nearly half-billion dollar bond in his civil fraud case, a New York appeals court appears to have handed the former president a lifeline on Monday, accepting a far smaller bond of $175 million.

...
Mr. Trump has 10 days to obtain the bond, and two people with knowledge of his finances said he should be able to secure it by then.
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That's April 4.
 
Elixir said:
NY Appeals court just “gifted” Agent Orange $300,000,000.00 with no explanation, and gave him another ten days. Stinks to high heaven.
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$175 million isn't a small bond still. And it isn't unreasonable. I've got to imagine the appellate court would lower the sum of the judgment anyway. $175 million isn't a small penalty for a guy that hocks awful looking sneakers.
 
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