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Virginia school board votes to restore Confederate names to two schools

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

Don2 (Don1 Revised)

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Article
School board members in Virginia’s Shenandoah County voted early Friday to restore the names of two schools that previously honored Confederate leaders – four years after those names had been removed.

The 5-1 vote came after hours of public comment during a meeting that began Thursday evening from people speaking on both sides of the issue. Vice Chairman Kyle L. Gutshall was the sole opposing vote.

“I ask that when you cast your vote, you remember that Stonewall Jackson and others fighting on the side of the Confederacy in this area were intent on protecting the land, the buildings and the lives of those under attack,” said a woman urging the board to restore the Confederate names. “Preservation is the focus of those wishing to restore the names.”
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I am not sure who these other Confederate leaders were or why it's important for this county to have Confederates' names on schools who were not from the county, but here is a blurb from Wikipedia on Stonewall Jackson:
He performed exceptionally well in various campaigns over the next two years. On May 2, 1863, Jackson was accidentally shot by Confederate pickets.[4] He lost his left arm to amputation. Weakened by his wounds, he died of pneumonia eight days later. His death proved a severe setback for the Confederacy. After Jackson's death, his military exploits developed a legendary quality, becoming an important element of the pseudohistorical ideology of the "Lost Cause".[5]
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Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Article
School board members in Virginia’s Shenandoah County voted early Friday to restore the names of two schools that previously honored Confederate leaders – four years after those names had been removed.

The 5-1 vote came after hours of public comment during a meeting that began Thursday evening from people speaking on both sides of the issue. Vice Chairman Kyle L. Gutshall was the sole opposing vote.

“I ask that when you cast your vote, you remember that Stonewall Jackson and others fighting on the side of the Confederacy in this area were intent on protecting the land, the buildings and the lives of those under attack,” said a woman urging the board to restore the Confederate names. “Preservation is the focus of those wishing to restore the names.”
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Preservation... of The Union? Historical revisionists. at their best. They were fighting to protect The South. No, they weren't, they were fighting an aggressive rebellion against the country they were trying to break apart from. Southerners still can't come to grips with the reality that was the rebellion. The South fired first and they waged war in the North. This wasn't about protecting themselves from invaders, The Union troops were citizens of the same country.

These political and military leaders were committing acts of treason. That they want to rename places after them... when we have a gaggle of super awesome astronauts to name stuff after is beyond repugnant. They want to wax philosophically about the "good parts" of the treasonous, anti-democratic rebellion.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Article
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Preservation... of The Union?
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Preservation of history. Especially if it happens to be history you don't like. A population that remains ignorant of its own history will be a population that is sure to repeat the same mistakes in the future.

It would be one thing to raze an old school building down and name the replacement building something different. But just to take down history in less than the lifespan of the building just because it is in style with your current ideology is the foundation for profound ignorance. Something the democrats and liberals love to do these days.
 
They can preserve the confederacy in their own privately-owned museums. Public schools fall under the governance of the U.S. government, which prevailed over the Confederacy. There is no obligation for these institutions to maintain or honor the legacies of those who opposed the state.
 
RVonse said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Don2 (Don1 Revised) said:
Article
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Preservation... of The Union?
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Preservation of history. Especially if it happens to be history you don't like. A population that remains ignorant of its own history will be a population that is sure to repeat the same mistakes in the future.
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We do that with books. We erect memorials to preserve the stature of people we consider historical heroes or preserve the memory of those lost in some terrible event. Not treasonous fuckheads, people guilty of terrible crimes, or NY Jets.
 
Gospel said:
RVonse said:
Preservation of history.
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It is covered in school curricula and preserved in books and other written records.
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The history they want to promote:
  • Confederates were victims of Northern aggression;
  • Slaves were being given job skills they could add as bullet points in their resumes;
  • You can't judge them because everyone at the time was doing it;
  • Confederate leaders are worthy of praise because they were very honorable people.
You can't NOT let them change it back to a Confederate general because then you are making white students feel uncomfortable. CRT CRT!!!

Also, random pictures of young Black men next to fires at BLM protests in-coming, in 3...2...1.
 
Gospel said:
. Public schools fall under the governance of the U.S. government, which prevailed over the Confederacy. There is no obligation for these institutions to maintain or honor the legacies of those who opposed the state.
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You make a good point I did not consider. Just how much of our public schools fall under the governance of the federal government though? Perhaps that is a discussion in and of itself. According to wiki here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publi...rce of funding,job or pursue higher education.

The largest source of funding for elementary and secondary education comes from state government aid, followed by local contributions (primarily property taxes).

So it does appears the building itself is mostly paid for by property taxes from the local population. Since they paid for it so maybe they should get to say what they want it to be named?
 
Can we get back to your false claim that this is erasing history, by not celebrating it? Shall we erect statues in Hawaii to Emperor Hirohito and lambast anyone who is against it for trying to "erase history"?
RVonse said:
So it does appears the building itself is mostly paid for by property taxes from the local population. Since they paid for it so maybe they should get to say what they want it to be named?
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Is there irony in someone demanding democratic say in the name of a school in support of a person who waged a war as a result of the outcome of a democratic election?
 
I rest a little easier knowing that state curricula these days bore the hell out of kids and rarely get to the genuine glow of history. Just as the constant "read the text and respond" will kill your love of reading, the core citizenship benchmarks (that's how "social studies" is named in Ohio) will bore the living hell out of any normal young mind. They won't know much about our racial past, but they also won't have the historical narrative of anything in the 19th Century. The brighter ones, who come from literate homes, may someday appreciate the irony of elevating traitors to positions of honor (and, given the possible result of election '24, they may have a modern-day update to consider.)
Also, I can at least hope that when we are a "majority minority" society, starting in the early 2040s, these schools can get renamed yet again. It would be sweet to see a Stonewall Junior High go over to Tubman Middle School. Or maybe just split the difference and make more people happy: The Oprah Academy. Snark aside, why not start naming schools after painters, poets, and novelists?
 
RVonse said:
Gospel said:
. Public schools fall under the governance of the U.S. government, which prevailed over the Confederacy. There is no obligation for these institutions to maintain or honor the legacies of those who opposed the state.
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You make a good point I did not consider. Just how much of our public schools fall under the governance of the federal government though? Perhaps that is a discussion in and of itself. According to wiki here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_funding_in_the_United_States#:~:text=The largest source of funding,job or pursue higher education.

The largest source of funding for elementary and secondary education comes from state government aid, followed by local contributions (primarily property taxes).

So it does appears the building itself is mostly paid for by property taxes from the local population. Since they paid for it so maybe they should get to say what they want it to be named?
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Indeed, taxpayers should have the right to vote on naming decisions just as they can vote on the removal of all Confederate symbols from government property.
 
Gospel said:
RVonse said:
Gospel said:
. Public schools fall under the governance of the U.S. government, which prevailed over the Confederacy. There is no obligation for these institutions to maintain or honor the legacies of those who opposed the state.
Click to expand...
You make a good point I did not consider. Just how much of our public schools fall under the governance of the federal government though? Perhaps that is a discussion in and of itself. According to wiki here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_school_funding_in_the_United_States#:~:text=The largest source of funding,job or pursue higher education.

The largest source of funding for elementary and secondary education comes from state government aid, followed by local contributions (primarily property taxes).

So it does appears the building itself is mostly paid for by property taxes from the local population. Since they paid for it so maybe they should get to say what they want it to be named?
Click to expand...

Indeed, taxpayers should have the right to vote on naming decisions just as they can vote on the removal of all Confederate symbols from government property.
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Or they could affix a worthy plaque to it.

"The person displayed here committed acts of rebellion and violence against the military of the United States in a failed rebellion that led to the death of over 700,000 Americans. This man is depicted here because those in the area haven't been able to get over the failed result of that rebellion even though it ended over 150 years ago. Sure, we could have a statue of Neil Armstrong who walked on the fucking moon, but no... the people around here can't get over the loss of the rebellion."
 
ideologyhunter said:
I rest a little easier knowing that state curricula these days bore the hell out of kids and rarely get to the genuine glow of history. Just as the constant "read the text and respond" will kill your love of reading, the core citizenship benchmarks (that's how "social studies" is named in Ohio) will bore the living hell out of any normal young mind. They won't know much about our racial past, but they also won't have the historical narrative of anything in the 19th Century. The brighter ones, who come from literate homes, may someday appreciate the irony of elevating traitors to positions of honor (and, given the possible result of election '24, they may have a modern-day update to consider.)
Also, I can at least hope that when we are a "majority minority" society, starting in the early 2040s, these schools can get renamed yet again. It would be sweet to see a Stonewall Junior High go over to Tubman Middle School. Or maybe just split the difference and make more people happy: The Oprah Academy. Snark aside, why not start naming schools after painters, poets, and novelists?
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If it has to be Civil War generals, why not William Tecumsah Sherman? Ulysses S. Grant? General Henry Halleck? Phil Sheridan?
 
RVonse said:
Preservation of history. Especially if it happens to be history you don't like. A population that remains ignorant of its own history will be a population that is sure to repeat the same mistakes in the future.
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What, you think that if they aren't allowed to name a school after a treasonous scumbag, Virginians are going to accidentally re-introduce slavery, because they might forget that it was a bad idea?

This lionizing of Confedarate traitors IS ignorance of history.

Preservation of history would consist of removing all Confederate names from public buildings, parks, streets and anything else that isn't specifically and exclusively a war memorial; And teaching kids why, in their school history classes.

They lost. And they deserved to lose. And losing a war you started for vile reasons has consequences.
 
bilby said:

They lost. And they deserved to lose.
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"I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and so valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse."
-U.S. Grant
 
What the Confederate cause was about. A truly noble cause.

DECLARATION OF CAUSES: February 2, 1861​

A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union.​

.......
We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.
That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.
....

....
 
If I remember correctly, all of the secession statements of the states specified the right to own and perpetuate slavery as key to their rebellion. The current revisionist line among those who proudly display the Sesesh flag on their pickups is that "those Southern boys mostly didn't own slaves, and were fighting for state's rights." In fact, Southern whites lived in dread of the liberation of four million slaves and wanted nothing to do with former slaves who would become their social and legal equals. In South Carolina and Mississippi, slaves outnumbered free persons in 1860. The entire white South lived in paranoia of slave rebellions, which had occurred in a few significant instances and had been murderously suppressed.
 
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