Mark Manson's "Life is a Video Game" analogy - and the "cheats"

excreationist said:

(I let my wife have the good parts of the pineapple).

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Long ago I knew someone who considered the core the best part. He also liked the insides we normally throw away from some other plants but I'm not recalling what right now.

excreationist said:

.....Things I've been forced to do (for an OCD person) would normally get unbearably annoying but like Mark Manson says things can become an automatic habit.....

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Well being on autopilot can have a downside. I was accidently giving my wife a coke with ice when she wanted a Movicol. Then after I gave her the Movicol I accidently gave her the icecube tray with water in it....

I get a 3.5 hour cleaning shift every few weeks (sometimes up to a month gap) and I got an email about the possibility of casual workers becoming permanent. I sent a message to my boss asking for one 3.5 hour shift per week. (which is about A$100 and I only need an extra A$30/wk to pay for the rent increase). I asked people I knew to pray for me. My sister wrote "I will pray God's will be done in the situation". I replied "I hope his will is for me to get a regular job".
Anyway the next morning I got a reply. The boss wrote that they no long do the midday shifts - only 7.5+ hour shifts. But it was good in a way because otherwise I wouldn't have messaged her and I would have been assuming that I would still have 3.5 hour shifts coming up...
So I'm going to a job agency for people with disabilities. They had found me that cleaning job but they let me go a while ago for having a bad attitude.

excreationist said:

They had found me that cleaning job but they let me go a while ago for having a bad attitude.

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Well, maybe their attitude has improved since then.

Elixir said:

excreationist said:

They had found me that cleaning job but they let me go a while ago for having a bad attitude.

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Well, maybe their attitude has improved since then.

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Well I'm saying I think my attitude is better now - though they might not like the reason... I think I'll give things a shot because the intelligent force behind it would do things for a reason so I could at least learn something, etc.

On the topic of video games - normally it is about being in the flow state which is in between being too hard (frustrating) and too easy (boring). I usually play on the easiest possible difficulty and get annoyed if something is difficult. Many gamers just learn to be really good at overcoming the difficulties. Some games have a reputation for being extremely difficult.

I sometimes think life is the "Ultimate Challenge".... that's also the name of the music in the Hitler level in Wolfenstein 3-D

I also made a remake of it called LegoWolf3D.

It's ironic that though I studied a university subject called "Playcentric Game Design" I have mostly avoided the significant challenge part of video games - and that would also apply to "the Game of Life".

This is from "Game Design Workshop by Tracy Fullerton" (my text book) - this web page is no longer publicly listed:

What are your favorite play styles?

Do your favorites depend on whether it is in life's game or in video games?

Competitor
Plays to best other players, regardless of the game

Explorer
Curious about the world, loves to go adventuring; seeks outside boundaries - physical or mental

Collector
Acquires items, trophies, or knowledge; likes to create sets, organize history, etc.

Achiever
Plays for varying levels of achievement; ladders and levels incentivize the achiever

Joker
Doesn't take the game seriously - plays for the fun of playing; there’s a potential for jokers to annoy serious players, but on the other hand, jokers can make the game more social than competitive

Artist
Driven by creativity, creation, design

Director
Loves to be in charge, direct the play

Storyteller
Loves to create or live in worlds of fantasy and imagination

Performer
Loves to put on a show for others

Craftsman
Wants to build, craft, engineer, or puzzle things out

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Then I added:

Lover
Driven by sexual passion and desire

Partner
Loves to cooperate and collaborate

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Related to frustration and boredom (as opposed to flow) - it makes the player more likely to give up.

Given the difficulty of your current living situation, I can understand the appeal of treating life as a video game.

In the real world, grinding a job, household budgeting, and living lean are not usually things that give meaning to life. But in the absence of other ways to find meaning and purpose in life, I can see how it could be helpful to imagine that meeting your basic needs for shelter and food are the purpose of existing.



My problem with this approach is that, like a bad video game, it stops being fun pretty quickly. But unlike a video game, you don't get to quit and do something different instead when you get tired of the grindy mechanics, the infuriating RNG or the broken difficulty scaling.

bigfield said:

My problem with this approach is that, like a bad video game, it stops being fun pretty quickly. But unlike a video game, you don't get to quit and do something different instead when you get tired of the grindy mechanics, the infuriating RNG or the broken difficulty scaling.

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Mark Manson is saying that life isn't just about being fun:

the game of Life is often quite difficult. You will face unexpected challenges and long periods of frustration. You will often struggle with self-doubt, feel overwhelmed by helplessness and loss, and sometimes take a shit when you’re out of toilet paper.

Yes, Life is hard, as the saying goes.
...

Life is designed to continually throw difficult and unexpected problems at you
....

As players, we spend most of our time preparing ourselves for problems that are expected. But it is because of this preparation that, by definition, the most difficult problems we experience in Life will be unexpected.

This steady barrage of unexpected problems gives the player a sense that she lacks control over her own Life, when in fact, the purpose of Life is not to control what happens to you, but rather control and choose higher level reactions to what happens to you.

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Also there are "serious games"

....while serious games don’t have to be fun, incorporating enjoyable elements can enhance their effectiveness...

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excreationist said:

bigfield said:

My problem with this approach is that, like a bad video game, it stops being fun pretty quickly. But unlike a video game, you don't get to quit and do something different instead when you get tired of the grindy mechanics, the infuriating RNG or the broken difficulty scaling.

Click to expand...

Mark Manson is saying that life isn't just about being fun:

the game of Life is often quite difficult. You will face unexpected challenges and long periods of frustration. You will often struggle with self-doubt, feel overwhelmed by helplessness and loss, and sometimes take a shit when you’re out of toilet paper.

Yes, Life is hard, as the saying goes.
...

Life is designed to continually throw difficult and unexpected problems at you
....

As players, we spend most of our time preparing ourselves for problems that are expected. But it is because of this preparation that, by definition, the most difficult problems we experience in Life will be unexpected.

This steady barrage of unexpected problems gives the player a sense that she lacks control over her own Life, when in fact, the purpose of Life is not to control what happens to you, but rather control and choose higher level reactions to what happens to you.

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Also there are "serious games"

....while serious games don’t have to be fun, incorporating enjoyable elements can enhance their effectiveness...

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He's saying that life is a bad video game, then5.

I see some merit in gamifying certain elements of our lives to makes them more enjoyable, I do that with some of my chores and life admin.

Manson is basically restating a Stoic principle here but with a little bit of video-game lingo: "the purpose of Life is not to control what happens to you, but rather control and choose higher level reactions to what happens to you."

Yeah, I guess wisdom and maturity are a little bit like levelling up if you really want to stretch the RPG metaphor.

I don't think it helps anyone to pretend that life's RNG has any kind of design behind it, though. That's no different than believing in"God's plan".

bigfield said:

I don't think it helps anyone to pretend that life's RNG has any kind of design behind it, though. That's no different than believing in"God's plan".

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About the RNG - see:
https://iidb.org/threads/god-does-not-play-dice-and-a-non-obvious-god.25743

Statistical analysis can be used so that die throws appear to be completely random but could be intelligently guided. An example of this is from the movie "The Imitation Game". They decoded the Enigma machines and could take advantage of the information but they used statistical analysis (and fabricated stories) so that the Nazis wouldn't suspect that.

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The Roy game seems to have no intervention at all:


And that could be what our possible simulation involves...

In Mark Manson's web page it seems there is no benevolent force behind things wanting to help us...

But that is theoretically compatible with a simulation.

I don't believe that just to feel comforted but because of a lot of experiences I have had. There is a saying about people playing hide and seek with "God".

BTW

At the hospital I was put back on mood stabilizers. This made it hard for me to be motivated to do things and I wanted to stay in bed a lot. Several weeks later I was home alone and decided that it was game over for me. I connected some tubing up to my car’s exhaust pipe and sat in the driver’s seat. Feeling restless I tried breathing in from the tube directly. I decided to put the radio on. Playing on the radio was Ben Lee’s “Gamble Everything For Love”. After that was the New Radical’s song “You Get What You Give”.
…….But when the night is falling
And you cannot find the light (light)
If you feel your dream is dying
Hold tight
You've got the music in you
You've got the music in you
One dance left
This world is gonna pull through
Don't give up
You've got a reason to live
Can't forget you only get what you give

I was starting to feel disorientated and didn’t feel very well and I decided to give life another chance. I staggered out of the car. A couple of days later I casually mentioned to my psychiatrist what I had done and was admitted into the mental ward of a hospital for the third time.

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Should have I just thought to myself that there is no god - it was just was a meaningless coincidence, there is no guarantee that life will be worth living, etc? (note I also have other stories) Note if I repeated the experience a few times I think it would generally have songs on the radio that didn't seem significant....

bigfield said:

excreationist said:

Also there are "serious games"

....while serious games don’t have to be fun, incorporating enjoyable elements can enhance their effectiveness...

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He's saying that life is a bad video game, then.

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Some video games are incredibly difficult and some people don't think they're "bad". Like I said it could be considered the "ultimate challenge".

At its most basic, a souls-like features very difficult boss fights, inhospitable environments, unforgiving combat, preset checkpoints and various other elements meant to make the game hard but fair

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Though there is a saying that life isn't fair.
In the Roy game and Alan Watts' dream thought experiment the player chose to play it - despite the game being what you call "bad". It could be about making the best of a bad situation.
What about in movies where the challenge the hero has to face is very extreme - it is a bad thing but also what gives the movie meaning.
At least in life there are moments of pleasure though perhaps some video games can be annoying basically the whole time.

Or maybe the simulation isn't meant to be a "good" game but just be a realistic simulation of "real life".

excreationist said:

Some video games are incredibly difficult and some people don't think they're "bad".

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Those people do tend to consider the games fun, though. That's why they're playing.

excreationist said:

Should have I just thought to myself that there is no god - it was just was a meaningless coincidence, there is no guarantee that life will be worth living, etc? (not I also have other stories)

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I imagine Iwould have put it down to a meaningless coincidence, but it would have given me no comfort to do so.

bigfield said:

excreationist said:

Some video games are incredibly difficult and some people don't think they're "bad".

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Those people do tend to consider the games fun, though. That's why they're playing.

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Things could be much worse - like a simulation of fundamentalist Christian theology... where most people suffer in hell for an eternity. At least in our present times it is impossible for our lives to endure more than about 120 years. And often it is possible to end it all. And apparently if you are tortured for too long you can kind of get used to it or something. (torture is my greatest fear) Life can be a Heaven or a Hell so it is pretty deep.
What if you had to play a present "good" game for several decades? Some current games can be played for more than 100 hours... but our lives can still be interesting after several decades due to how much there is to do....

I think it is good that there are paradoxes in life. Apparently just seeking happiness itself can be problematic. Alan Watts saying "it’d be so great when you wake up" implies that people would be glad for life to be over....

I keep having to remind myself about post #29 regarding the inevitability of significant problems and suffering in life... perhaps if I didn't believe in the intelligent force I wouldn't keep on taking my comfort and hope for granted...

bigfield said:

excreationist said:

Mark Manson is saying that life isn't just about being fun:

the game of Life is often quite difficult. You will face unexpected challenges and long periods of frustration. You will often struggle with self-doubt, feel overwhelmed by helplessness and loss, and sometimes take a shit when you’re out of toilet paper.

Yes, Life is hard, as the saying goes.
...

Life is designed to continually throw difficult and unexpected problems at you
....

As players, we spend most of our time preparing ourselves for problems that are expected. But it is because of this preparation that, by definition, the most difficult problems we experience in Life will be unexpected.

This steady barrage of unexpected problems gives the player a sense that she lacks control over her own Life, when in fact, the purpose of Life is not to control what happens to you, but rather control and choose higher level reactions to what happens to you.

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He's saying that life is a bad video game, then.

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He is saying it seems like things are bleak - like in movies. But often things turn around. It creates an emotional rollercoaster. BTW somewhere I read that (generally?) women like a man that gives them a range of emotions rather than someone that does everything they can to try and please the woman (at least this is true with my wife - though every single relationship she's had in the past [besides the first] has been abusive).
Perhaps I had realised that in life regular problems weren't a big deal and so I had problems that I could really worry about. (and like Mark Manson said that if you manage to run out of problems you subconsciously create them yourself)