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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

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robnisch said:
My view of it is: A Pox on Both Thier Houses.
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I get it. This is a long and tangled history where people jump on the train when it arrives in their timeline, all while shoveling coal into the firebox of a perpetual train wreck at breakneck speed, and somehow convincing themselves they're not part of the problem. Take those with an obsession over Muslim terrorists. Endlessly talking 99% about Muslim terrorism and maybe 1%, if ever, about Palestinian civilians. And when confronted? It’s the same recycled excuses: 'They voted for Hamas,' 'They haven’t risen up against Hamas,' or 'All the civilians are sympathetic to Hamas,' and other such justifications.

Meanwhile, Palestinians living in Israel, who’ve lost family and friends in Gaza, are caught in the crossfire of this conflict. These are people who know firsthand how extreme their own community can be and fight tirelessly to make things better, only to be dismissed by some out of touch foreigner from roughly 9,200 kilometers away that can't even keep their own back yard straight. :whistle:
 
Gospel said:
I’m honestly exhausted by the cherry-picked facts that are framed to support some of the most disconnected views on this conflict. From my view it's using the views of extremists to create conflicting identities for Israelis and Palestinians that have little to do with the reality of everyday people.
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Well I’ve been exhausted by this conflict for 20 years! IMO, there is no solution that will satisfy both sides. The fighting there will never permanently end.
 
I'm optimistic because I believe in the goodness of the people in both Israel and Palestine. I've seen podcasts where everyday individuals from both sides come together to discuss their cultural differences and the devastating breakdowns that fuel the violence. I genuinely believe that ordinary people have the power to find common ground. It's the extremists who shout "death to Israel" and the apologists who make excuses for violence as a result that prop up the barriers to peace.
 
At its core, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been shaped by British and American strategic interests, which have often prioritized their own agendas over the well-being of the people in the region. Full stop.
 
Gospel said:
I'm optimistic because I believe in the goodness of the people in both Israel and Palestine. I've seen podcasts where everyday individuals from both sides come together to discuss their cultural differences and the devastating breakdowns that fuel the violence. I genuinely believe that ordinary people have the power to find common ground. It's the extremists who shout "death to Israel" and the apologists who make excuses for violence as a result that prop up the barriers to peace.
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Both sides just need to listen to podcasts to resolve this conflict. (sarcasm)

I know that's not what you were suggesting, just joking. :D
 
Zionism originally emerged as a response to the widespread rejection and persecution of Jews across the world. Despite misconceptions and the occasional narrative suggesting animosity between Black people and Jews, many Black individuals (like myself) see parallels between our own struggles and the Jewish experience, and vice versa, particularly in the shared history of displacement and marginalization. This connection leaves room for an understanding of the Jewish struggle and the original intent behind Zionism. However, in modern times, European influence has led to the unfortunate mischaracterization of Zionism in the eyes of some Arabs as colonialism, which has fueled resentment among some individuals. There is far more happening organically in people's daily lives than I can fully grasp, and the realities individuals face often evolve at a pace far faster than any media outlet could hope to capture, even if they tried, and some media outlets aren't even trying. We’re living in an era of explosive growth in independent media, which is both a blessing and a curse. While it offers incredible opportunities for information sharing, not everyone uses it with purely informative intentions. It’s up to each individual to have the courage and integrity, regardless of the circumstances, to avoid marginalizing others. That may not be all it takes but it's a start.
 
laughing dog said:
Tigers! said:
laughing dog said:
Tigers! said:
laughing dog said:
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
Holding hostages is not a form of attack.
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George Orwell would be proud of your rhetoric.

"So what if we kidnapped your family members? So what if we continue to hold the kidnappees.
It's your fault that we are violent. It's your fault that we refuse to end the violence.
We're Muslim and You are Not!
Tom
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George Orwell would not be proud of your insultingly stupid straw man argument.

Kidnapping the hostage is an attack. Holding the hostages is not.
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Very keen on hair splitting aren't you.
If you could please detail the logic split between hostage taking being an attck byt retaining said hostages is not a continuation of the attack that would be most helpful.
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Been there, done it, and it doesn’t appear to help.
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Alright then. No answer.
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No, that is an answer that you either don't like or don't understand.

Holding the hostages is a continuation of the crime, but not the attack. Just like the pain from a punch is a continuation from the punch but it is not the punch. It does not mean that the initial act was not an attack. It means its aftermath (depending on the outcome) is not necessarily an attack. That is my view. Either you understand or you don't. Which is different than approving of it or not.
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I think your view on this is fucked up. I think you are bending over backwards to reinterptet Hamas crimes, so it'll feel better for you. This is serious. People are dying
 
DrZoidberg said:
laughing dog said:
Tigers! said:
laughing dog said:
Tigers! said:
laughing dog said:
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
Holding hostages is not a form of attack.
Click to expand...
George Orwell would be proud of your rhetoric.

"So what if we kidnapped your family members? So what if we continue to hold the kidnappees.
It's your fault that we are violent. It's your fault that we refuse to end the violence.
We're Muslim and You are Not!
Tom
Click to expand...
George Orwell would not be proud of your insultingly stupid straw man argument.

Kidnapping the hostage is an attack. Holding the hostages is not.
Click to expand...
Very keen on hair splitting aren't you.
If you could please detail the logic split between hostage taking being an attck byt retaining said hostages is not a continuation of the attack that would be most helpful.
Click to expand...
Been there, done it, and it doesn’t appear to help.
Click to expand...
Alright then. No answer.
Click to expand...
No, that is an answer that you either don't like or don't understand.

Holding the hostages is a continuation of the crime, but not the attack. Just like the pain from a punch is a continuation from the punch but it is not the punch. It does not mean that the initial act was not an attack. It means its aftermath (depending on the outcome) is not necessarily an attack. That is my view. Either you understand or you don't. Which is different than approving of it or not.
Click to expand...

I think your view on this is fucked up. I think you are bending over backwards to reinterptet Hamas crimes, so it'll feel better for you. This is serious. People are dying
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It is serious. People are dying. Their deaths are completely unrelated to whether calling hostage holding an "attack" or not. But their deaths are directly related to whether or not bombs are dropping or bullets are flying.

Kidnapping is a crime regardless of when the victims are recovered. Nothing changes that. I

I realize that calling hostage holding an attack makes the supporters of Israel's current actions feel better. If your view is that these discussions are simply therapeutic that helps me understand the persistence in your emotional rhetoric and apparent need to fling bullshit accusations.
 
laughing dog said:
It is serious. People are dying. Their deaths are completely unrelated to whether calling hostage holding an "attack" or not. But their deaths are directly related to whether or not bombs are dropping or bullets are flying.

Kidnapping is a crime regardless of when the victims are recovered. Nothing changes that. I

I realize that calling hostage holding an attack makes the supporters of Israel's current actions feel better. If your view is that these discussions are simply therapeutic that helps me understand the persistence in your emotional rhetoric and apparent need to fling bullshit accusations.
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This is the sort of thing I'm referring to as "terrorist apologetics".

You might not care much about them or the people who care about them. But every single day of captivity is an attack on Israel.
Tom
 
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
It is serious. People are dying. Their deaths are completely unrelated to whether calling hostage holding an "attack" or not. But their deaths are directly related to whether or not bombs are dropping or bullets are flying.

Kidnapping is a crime regardless of when the victims are recovered. Nothing changes that. I

I realize that calling hostage holding an attack makes the supporters of Israel's current actions feel better. If your view is that these discussions are simply therapeutic that helps me understand the persistence in your emotional rhetoric and apparent need to fling bullshit accusations.
Click to expand...
This is the sort of thing I'm referring to as "terrorist apologetics".

You might not care much about them or the people who care about them. But every single day of captivity is an attack on Israel.
Tom
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Since nothing I wrote on this excuses or explains terrorist activity, your terminology is misleading. Either that is unintentional or it is a conscious attempt to emotional rhetoric to obscure the lack of actual thought and content in your responses.

The degree with which someone cares about the situation has nothing to do with accurately describing it. You literally have no idea how much or little I care about the hostages or their families.

If it makes you feel better to fling bullshit then I suppose it has some value in that therapy. However any therapeutic value it gives to you and those who feel the seem way is offset by the lack of credibility it lends to your responses.
 
Harry Bosch said:
Gospel said:
I’m honestly exhausted by the cherry-picked facts that are framed to support some of the most disconnected views on this conflict. From my view it's using the views of extremists to create conflicting identities for Israelis and Palestinians that have little to do with the reality of everyday people.
Click to expand...
Well I’ve been exhausted by this conflict for 20 years! IMO, there is no solution that will satisfy both sides. The fighting there will never permanently end.
Click to expand...
Isn't that the problem. Can it really be said that there are two sides when neither party really has a viable goal?

The Israelis, likely in majority just want the violence to end. Palestinians, I can't say. They've been fighting for so long, they might not remember was peacetime is like. But those with their hands on the weapons? Oh boy... they don't want peace.
 
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
It is serious. People are dying. Their deaths are completely unrelated to whether calling hostage holding an "attack" or not. But their deaths are directly related to whether or not bombs are dropping or bullets are flying.

Kidnapping is a crime regardless of when the victims are recovered. Nothing changes that. I

I realize that calling hostage holding an attack makes the supporters of Israel's current actions feel better. If your view is that these discussions are simply therapeutic that helps me understand the persistence in your emotional rhetoric and apparent need to fling bullshit accusations.
Click to expand...
This is the sort of thing I'm referring to as "terrorist apologetics".

You might not care much about them or the people who care about them. But every single day of captivity is an attack on Israel.
Tom
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It isn't an attack. It is injustice, grossly immoral, a crime, and worse it is blackmail against Israel from seeking justice for the atrocity committed against it.

Calling it an "attack" is a needless distraction that seems more interested in semantics than the actual suffering out there.

Currently, the Palestinians are suffering from lack of aid due to gangs seizing aid trucks. The odd part, Hamas apparently is powerless to stop the much smaller gangs. Palestine feels like the Middle East version of Haiti.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Currently, the Palestinians are suffering from lack of aid due to gangs seizing aid trucks. The odd part, Hamas apparently is powerless to stop the much smaller gangs. Palestine feels like the Middle East version of Haiti.
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Currently, Palestinians are suffering because their Muslim leadership wants them to suffer.
Muslims could end this conflict. But they don't want that to happen. So they're going to continue it.
Tom
 
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
Since nothing I wrote on this excuses or explains terrorist activity, your terminology is misleading.
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You found a bit of pedantry to hand wave the attacks Gazan leadership is perpetrating on Israel Today. Tom
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Perhaps if you could provide a link to an actual attack on Israel today from Gaza,, it might lessen the irony of your baseless accusation.
 
laughing dog said:
TomC said:
laughing dog said:
Since nothing I wrote on this excuses or explains terrorist activity, your terminology is misleading.
Click to expand...
You found a bit of pedantry to hand wave the attacks Gazan leadership is perpetrating on Israel Today. Tom
Click to expand...
Perhaps if you could provide a link to an actual attack on Israel today from Gaza,, it might lessen the irony of your baseless accusation.
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I'm referring to the kidnapping victims and their family, friends, and government.

Also the Gazan civilians. The attacks perpetrated by the Muslim authoritarians (terrorists) that have control over Gaza are also attacks on Palestinians.
From the UN to the world media, Israel commonly gets blamed for the disaster in Gaza. But that's really not true and any rational person can see it.
Tom
 
TomC said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Currently, the Palestinians are suffering from lack of aid due to gangs seizing aid trucks. The odd part, Hamas apparently is powerless to stop the much smaller gangs. Palestine feels like the Middle East version of Haiti.
Click to expand...
Currently, Palestinians are suffering because their Muslim leadership wants them to suffer.
Muslims could end this conflict. But they don't want that to happen. So they're going to continue it.
Tom
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You keep making this about religion, this is political, not religious. Hamas can end the struggle immediately. They could enact measures that would allow Gaza to be opened back up. Well, until the next group arrives with funding. But peace isn't Hamas' mandate.

So we need to step back and reassess solutions, because Hamas has no intent to allow peace and ridding the Middle East of Hamas isn't possible. Which brings us back to Iran and the Arab nations.
 
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