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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

 
 
 
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I want to address the accusation that I am antisemitic by clarifying my position on Israel and Hamas. At no point have I suggested that Israel should not defend itself from terrorist attacks, nor have I singled out Israel for condemnation in a way that holds it to a different standard than any other democratic nation. Criticizing specific military or governmental actions is not the same as condemning an entire people or denying a state the right to defend itself.

I fully recognize that Hamas is widely regarded as a terrorist organization and that Israel has legitimate grounds to protect its citizens. I also acknowledge the measures the Israeli Defense Forces take, such as dropping leaflets and making calls to evacuate targeted sites, to minimize civilian casualties. Pointing out the human toll of this conflict on both sides does not equate to ignoring Hamas’s role or absolving it of responsibility for its own actions, including using human shields and instigating attacks.

My stance is simply that there is room for critical examination of any government’s policies or military strategies, including Israel’s, especially when they lead to loss of life. That does not inherently constitute antisemitism; it is a call for accountability and empathy for civilians caught in the crossfire. To label me antisemitic for expressing concern over civilian casualties in Gaza, or any conflict zone, wrongly conflates criticism of certain military tactics with hatred toward Jewish people.

In short, I have neither dismissed Israel’s right to self-defense nor ignored Hamas’s aggression. I have not endorsed any hateful narrative or displayed animosity toward Jewish people. Therefore, the accusation of antisemitism is unfounded.

And to further clarify, since there appears to be a remarkable level of intentional misunderstanding here... :rolleyes: The 'Child Killer' label was directed solely at DrZoidberg and does not apply to any member of the Israeli government, any Israeli citizen, or any Jewish individual. I’ve been arguing against DrZoidberg’s statements, as well as Loren’s (and TomC’s pathetic “like” button).
 
Gospel said:
I want to address the accusation that I am antisemitic by clarifying my position on Israel and Hamas. At no point have I suggested that Israel should not defend itself from terrorist attacks, nor have I singled out Israel for condemnation in a way that holds it to a different standard than any other democratic nation. Criticizing specific military or governmental actions is not the same as condemning an entire people or denying a state the right to defend itself.

I fully recognize that Hamas is widely regarded as a terrorist organization and that Israel has legitimate grounds to protect its citizens. I also acknowledge the measures the Israeli Defense Forces take, such as dropping leaflets and making calls to evacuate targeted sites, to minimize civilian casualties. Pointing out the human toll of this conflict on both sides does not equate to ignoring Hamas’s role or absolving it of responsibility for its own actions, including using human shields and instigating attacks.

My stance is simply that there is room for critical examination of any government’s policies or military strategies, including Israel’s, especially when they lead to loss of life. That does not inherently constitute antisemitism; it is a call for accountability and empathy for civilians caught in the crossfire. To label me antisemitic for expressing concern over civilian casualties in Gaza, or any conflict zone, wrongly conflates criticism of certain military tactics with hatred toward Jewish people.

In short, I have neither dismissed Israel’s right to self-defense nor ignored Hamas’s aggression. I have not endorsed any hateful narrative or displayed animosity toward Jewish people. Therefore, the accusation of antisemitism is unfounded.

And to further clarify, since there appears to be a remarkable level of intentional misunderstanding here... :rolleyes: The 'Child Killer' label was directed solely at DrZoidberg and does not apply to any member of the Israeli government, any Israeli citizen, or any Jewish individual. I’ve been arguing against DrZoidberg’s statements, as well as Loren’s (and TomC’s pathetic “like” button).
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Gospel, this is just babbel. You're just writing words that, in context, mean nothing. If you have a problem with Hamas, what's your plan to get rid of them?


"My stance is simply that there is room for critical examination of any government’s policies or military strategies, including Israel’s, especially when they lead to loss of life."

This is the most vaccuus thing you have said so far.

Israel is right now doing something about Hamas. Which is more than anyone else. How about you show some appreciation to them for doing their best to fix a problem you agree needs fixing? Thanks to Hamas a lot of children are going to die. That is not Israels fault
 
DrZoidberg said:
Gospel said:
DrZoidberg said:
I wish you would make an effort to show a little apreciation for what Israel is doing to protect Palestinian civilians.
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By the way, I’d do that more often if I didn’t have to spend most of my logged on time rebutting the nonsense you post. Quit justifying the slaughter of children, and I’ll have time to address other issues.
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I'm sorry, but you're the one justifying the slaughter of children

Stop trying to twist the narrative around and blame the Jews. Its pretty distasteful
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I’d challenge you to produce a single quote of mine that supports your accusation, but let’s be honest—you won’t bother. Hurling baseless claims without even a shred of evidence is so much easier, and judging by your track record, it’s exactly what you do best.
 
Gospel said:
DrZoidberg said:
Gospel said:
DrZoidberg said:
I wish you would make an effort to show a little apreciation for what Israel is doing to protect Palestinian civilians.
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By the way, I’d do that more often if I didn’t have to spend most of my logged on time rebutting the nonsense you post. Quit justifying the slaughter of children, and I’ll have time to address other issues.
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I'm sorry, but you're the one justifying the slaughter of children

Stop trying to twist the narrative around and blame the Jews. Its pretty distasteful
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I’d challenge you to produce a single quote of mine that supports your accusation, but let’s be honest—you won’t bother. Hurling baseless claims without even a shred of evidence is so much easier, and judging by your track record, it’s exactly what you do best.
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Its the context in which you make your statements.

Perhaps you also want to accuse Britain of all the needless suffering of Germany in WW2?
 
DrZoidberg said:
Gospel, this is just babbel. You're just writing words that, in context, mean nothing. If you have a problem with Hamas, what's your plan to get rid of them?


"My stance is simply that there is room for critical examination of any government’s policies or military strategies, including Israel’s, especially when they lead to loss of life."

This is the most vaccuus thing you have said so far.

Israel is right now doing something about Hamas. Which is more than anyone else. How about you show some appreciation to them for doing their best to fix a problem you agree needs fixing. Thanks to Hamas a lot of children are going to die. That is not Israels fault
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Pointing out the potential human cost on both sides, including the inevitable civilian casualties Hamas knowingly invites by its own tactics, is not the same as absolving Hamas of its crimes. Nor is it a condemnation of Israel’s right to protect its citizens. It’s possible to support Israel’s defensive actions while also advocating that those actions be conducted in a way that minimizes harm to innocent people. This stance is neither “vacuous” nor naïve; it’s recognizing that wars are not fought in moral absolutes, and innocent lives do matter.

If you believe “showing some appreciation” for Israel means shutting down all criticism or concern for civilians in Gaza, then you’re not actually debating my words, you’re inventing a straw man. I have, in no uncertain terms, rejected antisemitism, condemned Hamas, and supported Israel’s right to self-defense. Yet you cast me as somehow failing to do so.

Your choice to misrepresent my position might be easier than addressing its substance, but that doesn’t make your argument any stronger. Instead of lashing out with personal attacks, consider engaging with what I’ve actually said: that critical examination of military policies does not negate Israel’s right to defend itself, nor does it excuse the atrocities committed by Hamas. Pretending otherwise won’t change the record of my statements, it only reveals the weakness of yours.
 
DrZoidberg said:
Perhaps you also want to accuse Britain of all the needless suffering of Germany in WW2?
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Comparing my position on Israel and Hamas to “accusing Britain of all the needless suffering in Germany during World War II” is an utterly absurd false equivalence. I have never suggested that nations lack the right to defend themselves. Rather than addressing my actual arguments, you’re resorting to a cartoonish exaggeration that has no bearing on what I’ve said. I’d use the laugh emoji, but honestly, it doesn’t even come close to doing this justice.
 
Gospel said:
DrZoidberg said:
Perhaps you also want to accuse Britain of all the needless suffering of Germany in WW2?
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Comparing my position on Israel and Hamas to “accusing Britain of all the needless suffering in Germany during World War II” is an utterly absurd false equivalence. I have never suggested that nations lack the right to defend themselves. Rather than addressing my actual arguments, you’re resorting to a cartoonish exaggeration that has no bearing on what I’ve said. I’d use the laugh emoji, but honestly, it doesn’t even come close to doing this justice.
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"My stance is simply that there is room for critical examination of any government’s policies or military strategies, including Israel’s, especially when they lead to loss of life."

When you say stuff like this, it tells me that you don't understand how extreme the 7/10 attack was or the context, or all the shit that happened before. It was a realisation that Hamas are monsters and have no interest in peace. They have wide popular support in Palestine. How do I know that? Because there's nothing else in Gaza. No credible alternative power base with any power. And that the fact that Hamas is now calously using Palestinian civilians as human shields, is grotesque.

The time for discussion is over. Now Hamas just has to go. Appeasement didn't work. A two state solution didn't work. The Palestinians seem to only be interested in being lords over Israel, and until then there will be no peace. People like that can't have access to power. Trust is earned.

And if you stand in Israels way, criticise them every step of the way, then I will think you are a Hamas apologist. And an antisemite. Hamas is such an extreme organisation that any compromise is evil
 
DrZoidberg said:
"My stance is simply that there is room for critical examination of any government’s policies or military strategies, including Israel’s, especially when they lead to loss of life."

When you say stuff like this, it tells me that you don't understand how extreme the 7/10 attack was or the context, or all the shit that happened before. It was a realisation that Hamas are monsters and have no interest in peace.
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Spare the condescension, DrZoidberg. I’m fully aware of how horrific the 7/10 attack was, civilians murdered, families torn apart, entire communities traumatized. My condemnation of Hamas for that atrocity couldn’t be clearer. Where I differ from you is that I don’t believe those horrors give anyone a blank check to slaughter children or treat every Palestinian like fair game. So please drop the patronizing “you don’t understand” act. That’s just your own bias talking, not an actual reflection of my stance. Acknowledging the brutality of Hamas doesn’t mean abandoning all moral standards toward civilians on the other side. If you want to pretend that I’m ignorant, go ahead. But know this: that narrative exists only in your imagination, not in my words.
 
DrZoidberg said:
And if you stand in Israels way, criticise them every step of the way, then I will think you are a Hamas apologist.
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That’s a lazy smear designed to shut down debate. You’re hiding behind this chest-thumping bravado as if calling people “apologists” magically invalidates valid criticisms. It doesn’t. Grow up and learn the difference between condemning terror groups and refusing to give a free pass to any and all military actions. If you can’t fathom that, it’s your own intellectual failure, not mine.
 
DrZoidberg said:
The time for discussion is over. Now Hamas just has to go.
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That’s peculiar. I’m pretty sure I’ve stated more than once that Hamas needs to be eradicated, so it’s interesting you’re only just catching on. I guess we’ll see if this acknowledgment suddenly disappears a few pages down the line when you inevitably trot out the tired accusation that I’m somehow pro-Hamas, despite me explicitly agreeing with you right here.
 
IMO it is sociopathic to defend the needless slaughter of civilians for any reason.

IMO it is delusional to assert that Israel’s tactics are the only feasible form of defense.

IMO, it is insanity to claim the IDF has been “impeccable “.
 
I’m sure DrZoidberg and Tomc will see that as nothing more than “antisemitism” and “Hamas cheerleading,” because clearly, condemning the needless slaughter of civilians can only mean you support terrorists. Some people are just hopeless.
 
Gospel said:
You seem to underestimate the determination of the Israeli people. Look at how far they’ve progressed, primarily through defensive measures (aside from the occupied zones). Yet, you question whether their offensive strategies can produce meaningful outcomes. Israel has a well-documented history of launching successful offensives that resulted in significant territorial gains, later relinquished through diplomatic agreements.
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Oh look, here’s A glaring example of me not showing any appreciation for the Israeli people, exactly as you’ve been stomping around whining about, DrZoidberg. I’m sure you’ll find a way to ignore it and keep accusing me anyway. There’s more, but I’ve got to run, I’m Christmas shopping for A Jewish family member. Feel free to twist that into antisemitism too, DrZoidberg.
 
Gospel said:
DrZoidberg said:
The time for discussion is over. Now Hamas just has to go.
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That’s peculiar. I’m pretty sure I’ve stated more than once that Hamas needs to be eradicated, so it’s interesting you’re only just catching on. I guess we’ll see if this acknowledgment suddenly disappears a few pages down the line when you inevitably trot out the tired accusation that I’m somehow pro-Hamas, despite me explicitly agreeing with you right here.
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I think you are full of shit. You say Hamas has to go but repeat the pro-Hamas propaganda regarding Israels attempt to remove Hamas. The purpose of that propaganda is to get Israel to back off to give Hamas time to regroup. To keep them alive and in power in Gaza.

Keep in mind that organisations like UNRWA care about civilian lives. They don't care why civilians are suffering. They can't talk to Hamas, since Hamas doesn't give a shit. The only side UNRWA can talk to to end the war is Israel, so they are putting pressure on Israel. Don’t confuse that with them blaming Israel.

If you are honest about wanting to remove Hamas, then what's your plan? Do you seriously think the Palestinians are able and capable of self rule at this point?
 
Quick question: how will you know when Hamas has been defeated and the bombing and drone strikes in Gaza can stop? What is the sign Israel should be looking for?
 
Arctish said:
Quick question: how will you know when Hamas has been defeated and the bombing and drone strikes in Gaza can stop? What is the sign Israel should be looking for?
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When the IDF in Gaza aren't being attacked anymore, IDF is given full access to all of Gaza and all the hostages have been recovered?

Maybe

Hamas is still resisting. That's a clue Hamas still hasn't been defeated

I case you haven't noticed, Hamas is doing everything they can to prolong the war. Their strategy seems to be to manipulate western media to get western states to lean on Israel. Luckily enough in the West can see through the act
 
DrZoidberg said:
I think you are full of shit. You say Hamas has to go but repeat the pro-Hamas propaganda regarding Israels attempt to remove Hamas. The purpose of that propaganda is to get Israel to back off to give Hamas time to regroup. To keep them alive and in power in Gaza.

Keep in mind that organisations like UNRWA care about civilian lives. They don't care why civilians are suffering. They can't talk to Hamas, since Hamas doesn't give a shit. The only side UNRWA can talk to to end the war is Israel, so they are putting pressure on Israel. Don’t confuse that with them blaming Israel.

If you are honest about wanting to remove Hamas, then what's your plan? Do you seriously think the Palestinians are able and capable of self rule at this point?
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Why ask for my opinion if you believe I’m “full of shit”? It’s clear you’re not interested in an actual conversation. Let’s end this now; as you’re simply running a childish smear campaign. Besides, I’ve already shared my thoughts on a plan moving forward once Israel completely removes Hamas. You disagreed, and rather than leave it at that, you resorted to calling me antisemitic, a Hamas apologist, and “full of shit.” Clearly, there’s no value in us continuing this, and you don’t seem interested in hearing anything I have to say anyway.
 
laughing dog said:
IMO it is sociopathic to defend the needless slaughter of civilians for any reason.

IMO it is delusional to assert that Israel’s tactics are the only feasible form of defense.
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To avoid being delusional could you could tell us some the other forms of defence tactics Israel could employ?
laughing dog said:
IMO, it is insanity to claim the IDF has been “impeccable “.
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