steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
That can be fit into Buddhism, Zen, and modern psychology to one degree or another.
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The Case for Christianity
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pood
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@Brunswick1954 why are you trying to make a case for Christianity? Is it to convince us, or yourself? If neither, why make a case at all?
GenesisNemesis
I am a proud hedonist.
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What you want, and what reality is, are two different things. Also there are plenty of instances in other peoples' lives where 95% certainty of success or lower does apply. See for example those in disease-stricken countries or wartorn countries. I'm also not saying 99.9% certainty isn't possible, just that even that is not always achievable given what information is available. I'm definitely not 99.9% certain I will live again tomorrow, because I lack information about what will happen in the future with regards to random events. I'm not sure what a lack of fondness for life has to do with that.
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Wiploc
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You can have a confidence level of 95%, but not a certainty of 95%. If you were 96% certain then you would be uncertain.
If your usage were correct, then Christians could legitimately claim certainty that gods exist: "Hey, I said I am certain, and I am. I am less than 1% certain."
southernhybrid
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I'm not even sure what is meant by the term spiritual. Does that refer to the emotions one feels when they view a beautiful scene in nature, or when their dog comes up to hug them and give them doggie kisses, or when your partner tells you they love you or the way a woman feels after having multiple orgasms with a loving partner, or when you read a good book, a lovely poem, grow a flower garden and watch the flowers bloom, or simply the warm and fuzzy feelings you get when you do something nice for someone etc. What exactly does that term mean?
People have told me they are spiritual but not religious. Again, are they referring to emotions or that they have some vague belief in a supernatural world? Why can't we just be good without gods or spirituality? And, since a lot of us are skeptical about humans having free will or absolute free will, can anyone really help what they believe or how they act? I personally believe that we are all products of our genetic and environmental influences. We can't change genetics, but sometimes environmental influences can have either a negative or positive impact on a person's character.
Regardless, since we have the Ten Commitments of Humanism, why in the world do we need Christianity to keep us moral and caring? Secular Humanism is often viewed as a secular form of religion and the motto of the American Humanist Association is "Good without a God". The commitments aren't commandments. They are just principles for living a better, more satisfying life. I embrace humanism, although not all atheists do. But, my point is that we don't need to be spiritual, whatever the means, to try and live a good life. In fact, religion often is a cause of division, wars and hatred, but we've already given examples of that, so I'll just add the 10 commitments as an example of how we can strive to be better humans, no gods required.
The Ten Commitments
People have told me they are spiritual but not religious. Again, are they referring to emotions or that they have some vague belief in a supernatural world? Why can't we just be good without gods or spirituality? And, since a lot of us are skeptical about humans having free will or absolute free will, can anyone really help what they believe or how they act? I personally believe that we are all products of our genetic and environmental influences. We can't change genetics, but sometimes environmental influences can have either a negative or positive impact on a person's character.
Regardless, since we have the Ten Commitments of Humanism, why in the world do we need Christianity to keep us moral and caring? Secular Humanism is often viewed as a secular form of religion and the motto of the American Humanist Association is "Good without a God". The commitments aren't commandments. They are just principles for living a better, more satisfying life. I embrace humanism, although not all atheists do. But, my point is that we don't need to be spiritual, whatever the means, to try and live a good life. In fact, religion often is a cause of division, wars and hatred, but we've already given examples of that, so I'll just add the 10 commitments as an example of how we can strive to be better humans, no gods required.
The Ten Commitments
Critical Thinking
As we are each bombarded with a constant stream of information, it can become challenging to decide what is accurate and true. Thinking critically allows us to make sense of all this information and reason our way to good judgments and effective solutions to the problems we face while rigorously avoiding pitfalls like rationalization, conformity, and stereotyping. This process forms the basis of the scientific method, which opens the door for new discoveries through hypothesizing and experimenting. Critical thinking is a skill that requires continued attention, practice, and reflection. Exercising our minds to build these skills enables us to challenge biases in ourselves and in others, paving the way for a fair, open-minded, and autonomous perspective that fosters a multicultural worldview.
Ethical Development
The key to understanding ethical development is acknowledging that nobody is perfect or has all the answers. Ethical development is a never-ending process that requires constant reflection and evaluation of our personal choices and the consequences they have on others. Fairness, cooperation, and sharing are among the first moral issues we encounter in our ethical development as human beings and are often embraced intuitively, but each new day carries with it new challenges and new moral dilemmas. We should continually adapt and rebuild our moral frameworks with the goal of becoming ever better human beings.
Peace and Social Justice
True peace involves an intense commitment to social justice and affirms the human rights and personal autonomy of all people. Any level of injustice against groups or individuals signifies existing conflict, even if the conflict isn’t immediate or obvious. We attain peace only by consistently responding to injustice through thoughtful conflict resolution that aims to repair harms and ensure a fair and equitable society moving forward. This kind of conflict resolution is known as restorative justice. In order to achieve a just, peaceful society, we all must take claims of injustice seriously and ensure that those who are impacted most by rights-violations determine the best course forward.
Service and Participation
Service and participation means putting values into action in ways that positively impact our communities and society as a whole. It fosters helping others, increasing social awareness, enhancing accountability, and many attributes of the other nine commitments. Engaging in service doesn’t just make the recipients better off, but those who serve can develop new skills, experiences, and personal satisfaction that all promote personal growth. We must all recognize that we are members of a group, and engaging in service to benefit the group and the other individuals in it makes us all better off.
Empathy
Empathy means entering imaginatively into another’s situation in an attempt to understand their experience as though we are experiencing it ourselves. Empathy requires a person to step outside of their own perspective to consider someone else’s thoughts, feelings, or circumstance from that person’s point of view. In many ways, empathy is the first step to ethical behavior as it allows us to respond compassionately to the suffering of others and exercise good judgement when our actions may affect someone else. Understanding another’s perspective is not only critical to building better relationships, but also makes us better citizens in our local and global communities. Empathy promotes tolerance, consideration, and compassion amongst us all.
Humility
Humility means displaying modesty about accomplishments, talents, gifts, or importance of self. It acknowledges we humans are fallible and have limitations in what we know and can do. Being humble isn’t about having low self-esteem or denigrating oneself. Humility at its core is robust self-awareness—awareness of our strengths and weaknesses, our faults and our merits. Humility involves setting aside personal pride and overcoming our egos to embrace gratitude for what you have and appreciate others for who they are. In being humble, one recognizes their own value in relation to others; inherently, you are neither better nor worse than anyone else.
Environmentalism
Regardless of our individual identities, we all share the same home: planet Earth. Just as we depend on the planet to sustain us with its precious resources, this planet’s ecosystems depend on us to be good stewards and take responsibility for the impact human activity has on our shared planet. Disregard for the large-scale impacts humans have on our environment has caused extensive harm to earth’s ecosystems. Despite this, humanity is also capable of positive environmental change that values the interdependence of all life on this planet. Each of us must acknowledge our collective and individual mistakes, repair past damages, and purposefully work toward cultivating rich, diverse, and resilient ecosystems.
Global Awareness
We live in a world that is rich in cultural, social, and individual diversity—a world with rapidly increasing interdependence. As a result, events anywhere are more likely to have consequences everywhere. Global awareness broadens our knowledge of cultures and perspectives that are outside of our own experience. A true global awareness includes attention to both current and historical events, and acknowledges how we affect—and how we are affected by—the interconnected social, political, and economic systems in which we reside. The end-goal of global awareness is global citizenship, which recognizes our personal responsibility to foster a healthy and dignified life for everyone in our global community.
Responsibility
Every day, each of us makes choices. These choices, large and small, all have consequences—for ourselves and for the world around us. Moral responsibility involves taking conscious ownership of one’s intentions and actions, and being accountable for the resulting consequences. Although we all live in a society with various cultural values, expectations, codes of conduct, and social mores, ultimately we all decide for ourselves what is right and wrong. Being a responsible person involves steadfast attention to what is right and willfully bearing the blame or praise for our own actions.
Altruism is the selfless concern for the welfare of other living beings without expectation of reward, recognition, or return. The collective welfare of our communities and society depends on the welfare of each individual person. We should always seek to alleviate the suffering and hardships of others with compassionate action. By caring for others around us and lifting each other up, we reinforce healthy connections and contribute to the betterment of our community, society, and the world.
Altruism
Download a PDF version of The Ten Commitments
Published in the September / October 2019 Humanist
Tags: Ten Commitments
GenesisNemesis
I am a proud hedonist.
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I would be uncertain, but still not sure why that's a problem as there are many uncertainties in life to begin with. Also, low uncertainty is still much better than high uncertainty.
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ideologyhunter
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You have just won the internet.
GenesisNemesis
I am a proud hedonist.
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- In addition to hedonism, I am also an extremist- extremely against bullshit.
This is why I don't care for acting particularly friendly towards these people. They're going to assert I don't feel love no matter what I say, no matter how friendly I am towards them.
ideologyhunter
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Some of them -- the ultra-obsessed -- believe that you deserve to suffer for eternity, with no respite, because you don't share their supernatural beliefs. That's the love community for ya.
pood
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@Brunswick1954 this goes back to the fairies at the bottom of the lake I brought up earlier. You say we need to be moral, good, forgiving — but we can’t, or won’t, do that without god, or at least his help, or something.
But why? Do we say, “that lake is beautiful, but only because of the fairies at the bottom of it”? Nobody says that. The absurdity is manifest. The fairies are superfluous, as is the Christian god.
I am not against religion. It is a part of human culture. But scientific culture produces weapons of mass destruction. The written culture produces Mein Kampf and hate tracts. The visual culture produces Nazi swastikas and snuff films. And the religious culture produces abortion-clinic bombers and suicide bombers.
It seems to me when we look to a mental projection of god to justify good works and love, we are seeking a sanction — a reward. But love is its own reward.
Sometimes I wonder whether we need most culture at all. The aforementioned Krishnamurti questioned the need for it, except to pass down technical knowledge. Why, he asked, do we run off to a museum to see a painting, when we can sit in nature and observe its beauty directly? Why do we read and write? Krishnamurti wrote nothing — all his books are transcriptions of talks. LIke Jesus and Buddha, his culture was entirely oral with little or nothing else. He said he did not read books, though friends said he occasionally read detective novels for entertainment.
Buddha said be a lamp unto yourself. Krishnamurti said be a light unto yourself. Christ said the kingdom of heaven is in you.
But why? Do we say, “that lake is beautiful, but only because of the fairies at the bottom of it”? Nobody says that. The absurdity is manifest. The fairies are superfluous, as is the Christian god.
I am not against religion. It is a part of human culture. But scientific culture produces weapons of mass destruction. The written culture produces Mein Kampf and hate tracts. The visual culture produces Nazi swastikas and snuff films. And the religious culture produces abortion-clinic bombers and suicide bombers.
It seems to me when we look to a mental projection of god to justify good works and love, we are seeking a sanction — a reward. But love is its own reward.
Sometimes I wonder whether we need most culture at all. The aforementioned Krishnamurti questioned the need for it, except to pass down technical knowledge. Why, he asked, do we run off to a museum to see a painting, when we can sit in nature and observe its beauty directly? Why do we read and write? Krishnamurti wrote nothing — all his books are transcriptions of talks. LIke Jesus and Buddha, his culture was entirely oral with little or nothing else. He said he did not read books, though friends said he occasionally read detective novels for entertainment.
Buddha said be a lamp unto yourself. Krishnamurti said be a light unto yourself. Christ said the kingdom of heaven is in you.
ideologyhunter
Contributor
It perplexes me when the Christian line is that we can't be compassionate and moral without Jesus. Bob Jones Sr. (of BJU, the thinking man's uni) once referred to man's sinful nature as "green slime from hell." If man's basic nature is base, selfish, and sinful (in which case the fault lies with the manufacturer), then we wouldn't be drawn to any movement that asserts that it was created to pull us away from our basic nature and completely reorient us. The truth is, religionists who live good lives. treat others with respect, do good works, are simply positive, creatively good people by nature (and nurture.) The more they ignore the crazy, primitive stuff in their scripture, the more good they do in the world.
bilby
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Well, some will.
Others will just assert that, as you do feel love, you really are a Christian, and just don't know it, or won't admit it.
I am not sure which attitude I despise more.
Wiploc
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They like to claim, when an atheist does something nice for them, that god used the atheist as a tool to deliver his love.
Wiploc
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They invented the worst of all possible worlds, a world in which people suffer eternal torment, and they call this the "good news."
Brunswick1954
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The thing is to apply rationality to these arguments. If you can't see any rationality in any of them, then discard them all. Go with whichever makes the most sense to you. I'm not sure why you find the lake beautiful. I find it beautiful because it makes me feel peaceful when I look at it. Looking around, I find the sky and the hills beautiful as well. I find nature peaceful whilst I find looking at traffic annoying. I look at the discoveries of science and I find them beautiful as well. But I find the arguments amongst scientists annoying. For a very long time, I was an atheist. There's nothing wrong with it. Continue being one. There's no reason to believe anything if it doesn't make sense to you.
Brunswick1954
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Actually, I don't agree with this. There're plenty of good people in this world, some are Hindus, Buddhists, Muslim, agnostics, etc. Believing in any religion does not necessarily make you a good person. My case for Christianity is not about the world being a horrible place unless we all bow down and worship God.
Brunswick1954
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No tacti
No tactic on my end. Believe what you will. You're not going to Hell, lol. I was just hoping to make a logical case for Christianity, LOL.
Brunswick1954
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Actually, my response is a little more subtle than that. It's difficult to explain because God is impossible to define, so it's entirely possible you believe what I believe as well but we're expressing it in a different way. Secondly, language is notoriously misleading. What I say if often not what you understand by what I said, and often not really what I intended to say.
Anyway, believe what you will, like or dislike what you will. I enjoy reading your posts regardless. But I do have difficulty responding in a way that is helpful. That's why I try to stick to "making my case" rather than answering your individual comments.
Brunswick1954
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Confession
Alright. Time to 'fess up. I'm an anthropologist and female. That might explain the tone of my posts, lol. I'm "scientific" enough to have developed some computer programs, including my own little AI app which helps me manage my computer related work. With so much material to keep on top of, AI can be a lot of help. And I can tweak it to suit my needs. I've also lectured at some of the top universities in the world, inc. Harvard, Cambridge and NUS (that's the National University of Singapore). But that's beside the point, no? Do my intellectual creds matter? Surely you can judge an argument by its merits. And I make it a point to reduce things to its simplest form. Part of my scientific or academic training. Those two terms are to me, one and the same, meaning rigorous and critical thinking. The rest is just your field of study.I do anthropology because I love studying into what makes us tick. And foreign societies and communities allow me to look at people and their behaviour perhaps more unbiasedly.
Which brings me to this thread. Why am I doing it? Like I said, I became a Christian in my 50s. And it was quite a revelation which I wanted to share with people who are able to give me critical feedback. It's not going as well as I had hoped, lol.
Anyway, I can't help but bring my anthropological mind into what I do. So, here are some of my findings, surprising in some instances but interesting, every one of them.
1.People like magic
Interestingly, both believers and non-believers are more interested in the magical aspects of Christianity than in its moral and personal framework. Why does it matter? Do you need God to appear before you and convince you personally?
2. The "Arrogance" of the Righteous
Many people who are doing well in their lives think it's them. They don't really appreciate how much is happenstance. Sadly, many people who are not doing well also blame themselves. It's not all their fault. We can make a difference to our own lives but our ability to do so is much less than we think.
3. Life without God
This is a very modern, Westernised outlook. Every culture that I know of have a sense of the metaphysical or the supernatural (BTW, these two words have different connotations), except the modern Western society. To the detriment of the young, I believe. Young people from Westernised developed countries are the most lost and adrift young people I've met. Almost any religion is better than no religion.
4. Love as Moral Foundation
Many Westerners think it's obvious. But it's not. Until Jesus made it central. Even then, we still don't fully realise the extent of his assertion. Love, for Jesus, is complete and sacrificial. It's where the forgiveness of sins come from. It's about lost sheep. Loving and forgiving your enemies. It's not just about being a good person.
Plus, Jesus wasn't just saying, be a good person. He was saying look after the disenfranchised. Our stance against slavery, racism, etc. came from that. Note that other non-Christian countries still maintain their caste systems and other inhuman religious and cultural practices. In the name of religion, unsurprisingly.
Philip Yancey wrote a good book about it, What's So Amazing About Grace?, and pointed out that this, forgiving past quarrels, is the only solution to war between countries (putting aside for the moment, the economic motivation of war).
5.God vs Religion
We don’t seem to notice this but the Judaic/Christian/Muslim God does not belong to any religion and indeed, hates religion with a passion. Jesus spoke most and most harshly against the lawgivers and religious leaders of his own "religion".
6. What does it matter?
In case you haven't noticed, we're in crisis, not just in terms of environmental crisis, but also in many aspects of our lives, and yet we're also closest to global peace than we've ever been. We need a way forward. We need an alternative to materialism.
7. Is Christianity the solution?
Not in its current form and maybe not even as a religion but as a universal basis for humanity and human rights. But as a personal religion, it also works for me. It's a lot less superstitious and more scientific than you think it is. There's no need to convert anyone to Christianity. We just need to accept its ideals. Which are self-evident enough for most people. We don't even have to succeed doing so. Love one another, that's good enough.
The rest is in the far more able hands of God, lol.
*Sorry, I couldn't resist this last sentence.
Life Without God
Is being lost and adrift when you are young all that dire and terrible? IMO, a strong argument could be made that one should be somewhat lost and adrift when one is young. Perhaps it should be somewhat difficult to discover who one is and what one believes at that stage of life. Perhaps one's political ideology should also be turbulent at that age. There are many options for a young person to consider and many reasons why each of them make their own choices. Maybe we should retain some doubts about our choices at all ages.
Is Christianity the solution
Whose version of Christianity? I certainly do not see White Christian nationalism as any reasonable basis for human rights. OTOH, there are versions of Christianity much more palatable.
What does it matter?
Many people don't seem to realize the truth of the old saying 'there but for the grace of God go I', it leading to the conclusion that to help other people is to help yourself. That in doing so you provide insurance for yourself and your ow family members should you stumble and fall at some point in life.
Is being lost and adrift when you are young all that dire and terrible? IMO, a strong argument could be made that one should be somewhat lost and adrift when one is young. Perhaps it should be somewhat difficult to discover who one is and what one believes at that stage of life. Perhaps one's political ideology should also be turbulent at that age. There are many options for a young person to consider and many reasons why each of them make their own choices. Maybe we should retain some doubts about our choices at all ages.
Is Christianity the solution
Whose version of Christianity? I certainly do not see White Christian nationalism as any reasonable basis for human rights. OTOH, there are versions of Christianity much more palatable.
What does it matter?
Many people don't seem to realize the truth of the old saying 'there but for the grace of God go I', it leading to the conclusion that to help other people is to help yourself. That in doing so you provide insurance for yourself and your ow family members should you stumble and fall at some point in life.