1st Amendment Free Speech. Press,and Assembly

[steve_bank]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The reported mantra of Seattle's mayor is that propel have a right to protest, is it constructional? as people seem to interpret? Our mayor repeats the slogan and mostly ignores the anarchy that has transpired.

Months back a crowd of people without any warning walked onto I5 in downtown Seattle attempting to stop traffic. A woman was struck and killed by a car. Now the family is suing the city for not protecting her.

Over the summer the CHOP zone was declared autonomous and independent. Police and emergency services along with reporters were kept out. A nearby precinct was forced to close. Is this protect by the 1st Amendment?

Is the right of assembly the right to use violence and property destruction? Do those damaging property and assaulting citizens have a right to protection?

Does the 1st Amendment afford indemnification from consequences of assembly and speech?

Modern media based on the 1st Amendment says it can go anywhere and print anything about anyone, barring outright slander.

Without any warrant or authorization the media can delve into the life of anyone and publish it. The media can print stolen govt or private documents. Emails routinely appear in the news sent as private communication.

Over the last 4 years while talking up conservative fake news, media like CNN put out a steady stream of unnamed sources and associated interpretation and innuendo. The attacked people have no defense.

Is the media as onerous as the govt?

There are limits on speech and religion. Why not media?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

CHOP is rather like the Branch Dildonians and the Bundy standoff here--cases where law enforcement is worried that dealing with the situation will get very bloody and nobody wants to give the order to go in. The backlash from the Waco suicide has left them gun shy.

 

[Politesse]

So what's going on at CHOP these days? Still an independent nation, I assume? I mean, given what you say, I'm sure it wasn't forcibly shut down by the police once the press coverage died down, or anything...

Months back a crowd of people without any warning walked onto I5 in downtown Seattle attempting to stop traffic. A woman was struck and killed by a car. Now the family is suing the city for not protecting her.

To say nothing of this insane scrambling of the facts. Did you mean to make it sound like the woman was accidentally struck while walking into traffic, as opposed to (as actually happened) being murdered quite intentionally by a driver who had to evade a police blockade and climb the wrong way up an exit ramp to get to where the protesters were? Before speeding right toward the protesters in full view of dozens of police officers who made no obvious attempt to stop him as he completed his fatal assault on two young women? And it's not "the family", it's a class action lawasuit on the part of all of the protestors involved.

To others: don't believe everyhting you read about Seattle, there are no articles that have not been put through some sort of political spin.

For the record, yes, I do think that the 1st amendment protects freedom of the press, speech, and assembly. No, that doesn't include property damage, and no one has claimed that it does. You can sue someone for vandalizing your home or storefront, and if there is positive evidence of their involvement, the court will decide in your favor. Similarly, if you hack into someone's e-mail and steal information with a significant monetary value, you can sue them for that. You are demanding that laws be created which already exist.

There are limits on speech and religion. Why not media?

It's not like fascism is some fancy new political philosophy that has never been tried. It has a worse track record, and a worse reputation, than communism or hereditary monarchy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

So what's going on at CHOP these days? Still an independent nation, I assume? I mean, given what you say, I'm sure it wasn't forcibly shut down by the police once the press coverage died down, or anything...

Months back a crowd of people without any warning walked onto I5 in downtown Seattle attempting to stop traffic. A woman was struck and killed by a car. Now the family is suing the city for not protecting her.

To say nothing of this insane scrambling of the facts. Did you mean to make it sound like the woman was accidentally struck while walking into traffic, as opposed to (as actually happened) being murdered quite intentionally by a driver who had to evade a police blockade and climb the wrong way up an exit ramp to get to where the protesters were? Before speeding right toward the protesters in full view of dozens of police officers who made no obvious attempt to stop him as he completed his fatal assault on two young women? And it's not "the family", it's a class action lawasuit on the part of all of the protestors involved.

Disagree--I don't believe there was any intent to run people down, but rather not realizing they weren't going to jump out of the way.

 

[Politesse]

So what's going on at CHOP these days? Still an independent nation, I assume? I mean, given what you say, I'm sure it wasn't forcibly shut down by the police once the press coverage died down, or anything...

Months back a crowd of people without any warning walked onto I5 in downtown Seattle attempting to stop traffic. A woman was struck and killed by a car. Now the family is suing the city for not protecting her.

To say nothing of this insane scrambling of the facts. Did you mean to make it sound like the woman was accidentally struck while walking into traffic, as opposed to (as actually happened) being murdered quite intentionally by a driver who had to evade a police blockade and climb the wrong way up an exit ramp to get to where the protesters were? Before speeding right toward the protesters in full view of dozens of police officers who made no obvious attempt to stop him as he completed his fatal assault on two young women? And it's not "the family", it's a class action lawasuit on the part of all of the protestors involved.

Disagree--I don't believe there was any intent to run people down, but rather not realizing they weren't going to jump out of the way.

Yeah, I'd like to see you try that one on a judge.

"Your honor, I did run that person over with a motor vehicle, but in my defense, they didn't jump out of the way fast enough."

 

[Swammerdami]

So what's going on at CHOP these days? Still an independent nation, I assume? I mean, given what you say, I'm sure it wasn't forcibly shut down by the police once the press coverage died down, or anything...

Months back a crowd of people without any warning walked onto I5 in downtown Seattle attempting to stop traffic. A woman was struck and killed by a car. Now the family is suing the city for not protecting her.

To say nothing of this insane scrambling of the facts. Did you mean to make it sound like the woman was accidentally struck while walking into traffic, as opposed to (as actually happened) being murdered quite intentionally by a driver who had to evade a police blockade and climb the wrong way up an exit ramp to get to where the protesters were? Before speeding right toward the protesters in full view of dozens of police officers who made no obvious attempt to stop him as he completed his fatal assault on two young women? And it's not "the family", it's a class action lawasuit on the part of all of the protestors involved.

To others: don't believe everyhting you read about Seattle, there are no articles that have not been put through some sort of political spin.

For the record, yes, I do think that the 1st amendment protects freedom of the press, speech, and assembly. No, that doesn't include property damage, and no one has claimed that it does. You can sue someone for vandalizing your home or storefront, and if there is positive evidence of their involvement, the court will decide in your favor. Similarly, if you hack into someone's e-mail and steal information with a significant monetary value, you can sue them for that. You are demanding that laws be created which already exist.

There are limits on speech and religion. Why not media?

It's not like fascism is some fancy new political philosophy that has never been tried. It has a worse track record, and a worse reputation, than communism or hereditary monarchy.

Thank you, Politesse. I don't follow U.S. news stories and wondered what steve_bank was referring to. (Of course the following quote was a give-away that Mr. Banks' post was not particularly reality-based.)

Over the last 4 years while talking up conservative fake news, media like CNN put out a steady stream of unnamed sources and associated interpretation and innuendo. The attacked people have no defense.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Disagree--I don't believe there was any intent to run people down, but rather not realizing they weren't going to jump out of the way.

Yeah, I'd like to see you try that one on a judge.

"Your honor, I did run that person over with a motor vehicle, but in my defense, they didn't jump out of the way fast enough."

The difference is manslaughter vs murder.

 

[Politesse]

Disagree--I don't believe there was any intent to run people down, but rather not realizing they weren't going to jump out of the way.

Yeah, I'd like to see you try that one on a judge.

"Your honor, I did run that person over with a motor vehicle, but in my defense, they didn't jump out of the way fast enough."

The difference is manslaughter vs murder.

This was murder. Directing your car at another human being and gunning it is attempted murder. You could maybe make a case for voluntary manslaughter if it happened spontaneously in a crowd situation as famously happened at the Charlottesburg riot. But in this case, the action was clearly premeditated, as the killer had to go through several barriers to access a supposedly closed freeway at 1:30 at night, just in order to reach their goal, and even during the last fatal minutes had many obvious alternative options. I note that the accused, Dawit Kelete, has pleaded not guilty to felonious vehicular homicide among several other crimes. His day in court is expected later this year, perhaps September. The best he can hope for is lenient sentencing at this point, there's no chance of avoiding the charge. His odds are poor, given that Washington State employs an extremely broad definition of vehicular homicide (Basically, if you're driving unsafely and you know it, you're screwed, doubly screwed if you then flee the scene as Kelete also did).