34 Soldiers Suffered Traumatic Brain Injury from Iran Attack

[Keith&Co.]

or it could be another Keith&Co waiting to prank us accidentally into WWIV.

Accidentally? God damn! I would hope that if i achieved WWIV, it would be the culmination of a deliberate plan, with full malice aforethought, thank you very much.

 

[PyramidHead]

So, dumping a whole lot of other people's decisions on the guy in the bunker, like Half-Life blaming ALL LIBERALS as "Leftists", responsible for anything anyone to the left of Far Right has ever said or did.

So, not joking, but still kind of hard to take it seriously, if you blame any GI who was in the bunker for a decision about deployment.

That's a fatuous comparison. GI's voluntarily sign up for the US military and commit to following its orders, and the US military is the most dangerous and destructive organization the world has ever known. It's not like the Iraqi occupation is some kind of morally ambiguous undertaking, or an exception after a long line of virtuous endeavors that have always made the world a better place. If you are awake, have a functioning moral compass, and choose to enlist in the US military for any reason, you are directly responsible for its misdeeds. There is no "just following orders" to fall back on here, it doesn't work.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So, dumping a whole lot of other people's decisions on the guy in the bunker, like Half-Life blaming ALL LIBERALS as "Leftists", responsible for anything anyone to the left of Far Right has ever said or did.

So, not joking, but still kind of hard to take it seriously, if you blame any GI who was in the bunker for a decision about deployment.

That's a fatuous comparison. GI's voluntarily sign up for the US military and commit to following its orders, and the US military is the most dangerous and destructive organization the world has ever known. It's not like the Iraqi occupation is some kind of morally ambiguous undertaking, or an exception after a long line of virtuous endeavors that have always made the world a better place. If you are awake, have a functioning moral compass, and choose to enlist in the US military for any reason, you are directly responsible for its misdeeds. There is no "just following orders" to fall back on here, it doesn't work.

Except Iraq, most of the killing was the result of a political failure that created the power vacuum and led to the sectarian violence. Most of the 100,000+ Iraqis killed and 1,000,000+ displaced were victims of a political failure of the US, not because foot soldiers were murdering Iraqis at every corner. The extent of the military's fault in Iraq extended to military leadership that allowed itself to perform a military version of the Tacoma Narrows bridge, going in too lean and occupying almost no territory like it is the Pacific Theater in WWII.

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, dumping a whole lot of other people's decisions on the guy in the bunker, like Half-Life blaming ALL LIBERALS as "Leftists", responsible for anything anyone to the left of Far Right has ever said or did.

So, not joking, but still kind of hard to take it seriously, if you blame any GI who was in the bunker for a decision about deployment.

That's a fatuous comparison.

I'm being fatuous? There's decisions made in the White House, the Pentagon, and recruiting offices and you're blaming the guy at the tip of the spear for all of them.

GI's voluntarily sign up for the US military and commit to following its orders, and the US military is the most dangerous and destructive organization the world has ever known. It's not like the Iraqi occupation is some kind of morally ambiguous undertaking, or an exception after a long line of virtuous endeavors that have always made the world a better place. If you are awake, have a functioning moral compass, and choose to enlist in the US military for any reason, you are directly responsible for its misdeeds. There is no "just following orders" to fall back on here, it doesn't work.

Yeah. Try Decaff?
But still, i don't agree with wishing maiming on the guys accepting decisions, rather than wishing for ways to either hold the actual decision makers responsible, or maybe replace them with better deciders.

 

[PyramidHead]

I'm being fatuous? There's decisions made in the White House, the Pentagon, and recruiting offices and you're blaming the guy at the tip of the spear for all of them.

GI's voluntarily sign up for the US military and commit to following its orders, and the US military is the most dangerous and destructive organization the world has ever known. It's not like the Iraqi occupation is some kind of morally ambiguous undertaking, or an exception after a long line of virtuous endeavors that have always made the world a better place. If you are awake, have a functioning moral compass, and choose to enlist in the US military for any reason, you are directly responsible for its misdeeds. There is no "just following orders" to fall back on here, it doesn't work.

Yeah. Try Decaff?
But still, i don't agree with wishing maiming on the guys accepting decisions, rather than wishing for ways to either hold the actual decision makers responsible, or maybe replace them with better deciders.

I'm doing both, and when you decide to "accept decisions" of unrepentant mass murdering psychopaths you are as guilty as they are. In any other context this would be uncontroversial. The Manson family didn't get a pass even though Manson went to jail too.

 

[PyramidHead]

So, dumping a whole lot of other people's decisions on the guy in the bunker, like Half-Life blaming ALL LIBERALS as "Leftists", responsible for anything anyone to the left of Far Right has ever said or did.

So, not joking, but still kind of hard to take it seriously, if you blame any GI who was in the bunker for a decision about deployment.

That's a fatuous comparison. GI's voluntarily sign up for the US military and commit to following its orders, and the US military is the most dangerous and destructive organization the world has ever known. It's not like the Iraqi occupation is some kind of morally ambiguous undertaking, or an exception after a long line of virtuous endeavors that have always made the world a better place. If you are awake, have a functioning moral compass, and choose to enlist in the US military for any reason, you are directly responsible for its misdeeds. There is no "just following orders" to fall back on here, it doesn't work.

Except Iraq, most of the killing was the result of a political failure that created the power vacuum and led to the sectarian violence. Most of the 100,000+ Iraqis killed and 1,000,000+ displaced were victims of a political failure of the US, not because foot soldiers were murdering Iraqis at every corner. The extent of the military's fault in Iraq extended to military leadership that allowed itself to perform a military version of the Tacoma Narrows bridge, going in too lean and occupying almost no territory like it is the Pacific Theater in WWII.

Right, the problem is that we should have occupied more territory and sent more troops into the middle east. You're treating the "power vacuum" like it was a natural phenomenon that arrived via asteroid and the US simply mismanaged it, rather than it being caused by the US in the first place through the actions of its armed forces willingly obeying the orders of the military they voluntarily agreed to join. You already semi-Godwinned the conversation, so it's not unreasonable to continue the comparison and ask whether Nazi soldiers should have been held as blameless, since the chaos of Poland after the invasion was the result of a political failure?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm being fatuous? There's decisions made in the White House, the Pentagon, and recruiting offices and you're blaming the guy at the tip of the spear for all of them.

GI's voluntarily sign up for the US military and commit to following its orders, and the US military is the most dangerous and destructive organization the world has ever known. It's not like the Iraqi occupation is some kind of morally ambiguous undertaking, or an exception after a long line of virtuous endeavors that have always made the world a better place. If you are awake, have a functioning moral compass, and choose to enlist in the US military for any reason, you are directly responsible for its misdeeds. There is no "just following orders" to fall back on here, it doesn't work.

Yeah. Try Decaff?
But still, i don't agree with wishing maiming on the guys accepting decisions, rather than wishing for ways to either hold the actual decision makers responsible, or maybe replace them with better deciders.

I'm doing both, and when you decide to "accept decisions" of unrepentant mass murdering psychopaths you are as guilty as they are. In any other context this would be uncontroversial. The Manson family didn't get a pass even though Manson went to jail too.

How many Iraqi civilians were killed by American troops?

 

[PyramidHead]

I'm doing both, and when you decide to "accept decisions" of unrepentant mass murdering psychopaths you are as guilty as they are. In any other context this would be uncontroversial. The Manson family didn't get a pass even though Manson went to jail too.

How many Iraqi civilians were killed by American troops?

More than zero? Are you fucking with me?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Except Iraq, most of the killing was the result of a political failure that created the power vacuum and led to the sectarian violence. Most of the 100,000+ Iraqis killed and 1,000,000+ displaced were victims of a political failure of the US, not because foot soldiers were murdering Iraqis at every corner. The extent of the military's fault in Iraq extended to military leadership that allowed itself to perform a military version of the Tacoma Narrows bridge, going in too lean and occupying almost no territory like it is the Pacific Theater in WWII.

Right, the problem is that we should have occupied more territory and sent more troops into the middle east.

That's how an occupation works. You can't just remove a leader and say all is well. The US occupied Germany and Japan post WWII. We didn't just take the flag and go home. A vacuum formed in Iraq and it went to heck very quickly.

You're treating the "power vacuum" like it was a natural phenomenon that arrived via asteroid and the US simply mismanaged it, rather than it being caused by the US in the first place through the actions of its armed forces willingly obeying the orders of the military they voluntarily agreed to join.

Everything that happened was predicted by analysts. Had a larger force been used, it still could have failed, but it certainly wasn't going to work on a small incursion force.

You already semi-Godwinned the conversation...

Nazis were in Europe, not the Pacific.

...so it's not unreasonable to continue the comparison and ask whether Nazi soldiers should have been held as blameless, since the chaos of Poland after the invasion was the result of a political failure?

How many Iraqi civilians were killed by American Troops?

 

[PyramidHead]

That's how an occupation works. You can't just remove a leader and say all is well. The US occupied Germany and Japan post WWII. We didn't just take the flag and go home. A vacuum formed in Iraq and it went to heck very quickly.

Amazing. Do you realize that there might have simply not been an occupation, if we had decided not to occupy the nation of Iraq for no goddamn reason? How do you think the occupation was prosecuted, if not by human beings wearing American military uniforms shooting guns and lobbing grenades?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm doing both, and when you decide to "accept decisions" of unrepentant mass murdering psychopaths you are as guilty as they are. In any other context this would be uncontroversial. The Manson family didn't get a pass even though Manson went to jail too.

How many Iraqi civilians were killed by American troops?

More than zero? Are you fucking with me?

The statistic is pretty important when one considers you want to damn 180,000 people.

 

[PyramidHead]

More than zero? Are you fucking with me?

The statistic is pretty important when one considers you want to damn 180,000 people.

No, it's really not, since counting the number of people directly killed by the troops is irrelevant when all Iraqi deaths from the war are the result of American presence in the region, and American presence in the region is military presence, and America has a volunteer army. If a significant portion of the deaths were caused by infighting among sectarian forces due to the power vacuum, for example, American troops would still be responsible for those deaths because they invaded Iraq and created the power vacuum.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I'm being fatuous? There's decisions made in the White House, the Pentagon, and recruiting offices and you're blaming the guy at the tip of the spear for all of them.

GI's voluntarily sign up for the US military and commit to following its orders, and the US military is the most dangerous and destructive organization the world has ever known. It's not like the Iraqi occupation is some kind of morally ambiguous undertaking, or an exception after a long line of virtuous endeavors that have always made the world a better place. If you are awake, have a functioning moral compass, and choose to enlist in the US military for any reason, you are directly responsible for its misdeeds. There is no "just following orders" to fall back on here, it doesn't work.

Yeah. Try Decaff?
But still, i don't agree with wishing maiming on the guys accepting decisions, rather than wishing for ways to either hold the actual decision makers responsible, or maybe replace them with better deciders.

I'm doing both, and when you decide to "accept decisions" of unrepentant mass murdering psychopaths you are as guilty as they are. In any other context this would be uncontroversial. The Manson family didn't get a pass even though Manson went to jail too.

Well, Manson didn't go to jail 'too.'
Manson was prosecuted for the murders he conspired to accomplish. He was, weird concept, held responsible for his personal crimes. Each member of the Family was prosecuted and held responsible for their actual actions. No one was imprisoned because they had been a Family member, but not part of the murders or the decision to do the murder thing.

Which is what makes it weird, to me, to wish violent maiming upon guys for decisions made before they were born...

 

[PyramidHead]

I'm doing both, and when you decide to "accept decisions" of unrepentant mass murdering psychopaths you are as guilty as they are. In any other context this would be uncontroversial. The Manson family didn't get a pass even though Manson went to jail too.

Well, Manson didn't go to jail 'too.'
Manson was prosecuted for the murders he conspired to accomplish. He was, weird concept, held responsible for his personal crimes. Each member of the Family was prosecuted and held responsible for their actual actions. No one was imprisoned because they had been a Family member, but not part of the murders or the decision to do the murder thing.

Which is what makes it weird, to me, to wish violent maiming upon guys for decisions made before they were born...

I didn't know that US soldiers were born into military service, thanks for the info. If I was in the armed forces of a nation that has been pillaging and carpetbombing nations all over the world for profit and geopolitical influence I would simply stop doing that, but what do I know as someone who wasn't spawned from a pod in West Point with no free will of my own

 

[Keith&Co.]

I'm doing both, and when you decide to "accept decisions" of unrepentant mass murdering psychopaths you are as guilty as they are. In any other context this would be uncontroversial. The Manson family didn't get a pass even though Manson went to jail too.

Well, Manson didn't go to jail 'too.'
Manson was prosecuted for the murders he conspired to accomplish. He was, weird concept, held responsible for his personal crimes. Each member of the Family was prosecuted and held responsible for their actual actions. No one was imprisoned because they had been a Family member, but not part of the murders or the decision to do the murder thing.

Which is what makes it weird, to me, to wish violent maiming upon guys for decisions made before they were born...

I didn't know that US soldiers were born into military service, thanks for the info.

You have weird reading issues...

If I was in the armed forces of a nation that has been pillaging and carpetbombing nations all over the world for profit and geopolitical influence I would simply stop doing that, but what do I know as someone who wasn't spawned from a pod in West Point with no free will of my own

You know, at no point did i ever even imply giving the service members a complete pass, just not holding all of them responsible for things they had no control over.
Like, even at Nuremberg, no one was held accountable for ALL the things Hitler or the Reich did, just their own actions.

But if you want to argue about some scifi myrmidons, that's your issue.

 

[PyramidHead]

I didn't know that US soldiers were born into military service, thanks for the info.

You have weird reading issues...

If I was in the armed forces of a nation that has been pillaging and carpetbombing nations all over the world for profit and geopolitical influence I would simply stop doing that, but what do I know as someone who wasn't spawned from a pod in West Point with no free will of my own

You know, at no point did i ever even imply giving the service members a complete pass, just not holding all of them responsible for things they had no control over.
Like, even at Nuremberg, no one was held accountable for ALL the things Hitler or the Reich did, just their own actions.

But if you want to argue about some scifi myrmidons, that's your issue.

Well you talked about "decisions made before they were born" as if those weren't public knowledge available to anyone considering enlisting, or as if enlisting before a president/general makes a terrible decision is somehow unpredictable beforehand, given history. I don't hold the troops as accountable as I hold their bosses, but I don't see them as innocent or worthy of our pity when they are subjected to minor retaliation like this. They voluntarily do unconscionable things for a craven, pitiless machine that ruins everything it touches, and are therefore terrible people

 

[ZiprHead]

or it could be another Keith&Co waiting to prank us accidentally into WWIV.

Accidentally? God damn! I would hope that if i achieved WWIV, it would be the culmination of a deliberate plan, with full malice aforethought, thank you very much.

Ah, but considering your history, after the war starts you could say "I was just joking" and people would believe you. So you're covered.

 

[Keith&Co.]

or it could be another Keith&Co waiting to prank us accidentally into WWIV.

Accidentally? God damn! I would hope that if i achieved WWIV, it would be the culmination of a deliberate plan, with full malice aforethought, thank you very much.

Ah, but considering your history, after the war starts you could say "I was just joking" and people would believe you. So you're covered.

Can confirm...

 

[Keith&Co.]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/milita...nosed-brain-injury-following-iranian-n1127081

A total of 64 diagnosed, now.

They say they all have 'mild' Traumatic Brain Injuries, 39 have been returned to active duty.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/milita...nosed-brain-injury-following-iranian-n1127081

A total of 64 diagnosed, now.

They say they all have 'mild' Traumatic Brain Injuries, 39 have been returned to active duty.

Alright... how much longer do these symptoms usually take to manifest? And are heads that exploded counted as "mild"?