Elixir
Made in America
White guy shoots 7 people of color. Not a peep out of Cheato that I've heard. (Could be wrong - did anyone hear him express anything like condolences?)
Peter Selis
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8 Injured, One Dead, Trump Silent
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Looks rather like a suicide-by-cop.
His Flatulence won't say anything until someone gets to him to tell him he should.
His Flatulence won't say anything until someone gets to him to tell him he should.
repoman
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was this guy a thug or a rampage/grievance killer?
fast
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Where does the light shine?
The very expectation for a president to express a sentiment at all is bothersome to me. At first, I thought it was a weakness in the form of government. Assuming the expectation is reasonable, disapproval can come when such expectations are not met. Disapproval can cause behavior that is out of character, and that just doesn't seem to be an endearing trait for a leader in a superior form of government. Power seems highly diluted compared to a form of government where such expectations are not as behavior causing. Now, I'm wondering if I should shine light not on form of government but rather on expectations themselves. If there was a more heavy handed form of leadership quelling such expectations, I think I could find more respect for the real power they hold.
I don't think it's comparing apples to apples when comparing two different nations with vastly different fire power in their arsenal. Yes, a leader who caves like a mouse to people's demands to openly speak on every news worthy broadcast who also happens to have a shit ton of firepower at his ready is (technically, I suppose) more powerful, but ceterus parabus on the weaponry front, a leader with true power, the kind a bit more worthy of respect, would be a president who doesn't even feel any pressures to be a public puppet catering to the ears of those in tears.
I don't want to be an extremist by any means and shut up the voices that put out a call for the president to speak, but dousing the fiery flames of out of control expectations might serve for a healthier office on the respect front.
So, if the kids are misbehaving and wifey is at wits end and dad (with brown shirt on) walks in, the kids get their act together real quick like--like it should be. No, we don't want dad (with a black shirt on) whereby the kids can't still be kids, and we definitely don't want dad (with a pink shirt on) whereby everything is still as chaotic.
When a president doesn't have the option to skip out on speaking on a few disasters without over-the-top ridicule, then does this say something about the presidency as a form of government ... where does your light shine?
Jimmy Higgins
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Yeah... well after the murder and attempted murder of 8 people. He was in a relationship that ended and he wanted to "prove" something... while talking to his ex on the phone while doing it. So "suicide by cop" is the last thing to take here.
The alt-right isn't bother by blacks dying.
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Had this been a black guy doing the shooting, there would have been threads started the moment it hit the wire. And the "t-word" would be used in the Thread Title.
laughing dog
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Trump supporters have had no problem with this man expressing all sorts of sentiment during the campaign and as President. Why would it be bothersome to expect this President to express some sentiment about this tragedy?
ronburgundy
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Everything he did and didn't do (like try to get away) points to him intending to kill a bunch of strangers in order to killed by the cops, while calling his ex (who he blamed for his desire to die) in order to make her feel guilt for his actions.
The people he killed were pure convenience because they happened to be at the pool in his complex when he decided to do it. Race is last thing to take from it, given that one of the victims was white. Most people were there for the birthday party of a black male, so the fact that most the people shot were non-white is most likely a byproduct of who that black man's friends were.
Jimmy Higgins
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Don't think I said this was a hate crime. But you can feel to quote where I must have said it.
Elixir
Made in America
Yup. We'd be hearing Cheato decrying "rampant violence", probably specific to "the black community".
ronburgundy
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You are free to quote where I said that you said this was a hate crime. The OP and your own post did make it about race though, while hypocritically asserting that had that races been different that other people would have made it about race.
Jimmy Higgins said:
You dismissed as irrelevant the objectively probable characterization of the event as a suicide by cop, and instead thought the clear implication was about your speculations on how people would react differently if the races were different.
BTW, your speculations are bullshit. One factor in the lesser discussion is the lesser news coverage of it, likely because there was only 1 fatality. Chicago had 4 fatal shootings and another 17 shooting injuries this weekend. Also, had this shooter had any criminal record, conservatives would be talking about it because it fits their "tougher punishments" mantra. They don't like it when otherwise law abiding legal gun owners of any color kill a bunch of random people because they happened to have a gun handy at a time of psychological distress. The facts of the case are too clear and immediately available to spin it as anything other than something that looks bad for the pro-gun crowd.
An immigrant shooter would let the conservatives spin it as though only immigrants would do such a thing. But, given the same facts, a black shooter wouldn't change much, and if anything it would mean that the OP and you would be here telling us that had the shooter been white the cops would not have shot him and would include his death in the bogus "blacks murdered by cops" stats.
laughing dog
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There is nothing hypocritical about offering the conjecture that if the races were reversed, that there would be people who would make it about race.
"Objectively probable" is most likely an oxymoron in this situation unless you can show that characteristics of this shooter and situation fit verifiable figures on the characteristics of agreed-upon "suidices" by cop.
I don't see why you say it's not a suicide by cop. Suicide usually has some sort of trigger--in this case the end of the relationship. He started shooting very calmly, the cops show up, he shoots at them, he dies. My thought is that he was calm because he didn't care about the consequences--the intent was to die.
ronburgundy
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There is something very hypocritical about making the actual event all about race [which both the OP and Jimmy did] in order to attack others because you presume they would make it all about race if the races were different.
Every validated theory of human action (plus basic deductive logic) suggests that a person with no history of severe mental delusion who does something that all non-deluded people know will bring the cops with guns blazing, and then sits there to wait for them with no effort to get away is trying to be killed by the cops. There is no other remotely plausible account for that set of actions. You would need to make the baseless assumption that despite zero evidence of it, this person suffered reality bending psychosis to the point where they lived in a mental universe where shooting random people at a pool would not bring the police. In addition, when the all facts clearly show that person is emotionally distraught by a series of harmful economic and relationship events that are often precursors to suicides (regardless of method) and to homocide/suicide combos, then that further supports beyond reasonable doubt that the person was not only trying to get killed, but that their motive was typical suicidal ideation rather than trying to be a martyr in some ideological cause. Also, the randomly convenient nature of his victims is yet another factor that fits perfectly with there being no larger ideological motive and his victims just being a means to his own end.
Jimmy Higgins
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And I'd be right.
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I'm saying it is the least important aspect of the shooting spree.
Nice Squirrel
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This does look like your typical mass shooting, but I do agree that if this shooter were a person of color of a muslim there would be threads galore.
No matter what it is still a tragedy.
No matter what it is still a tragedy.
Jimmy Higgins
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With shooting sprees with white people as the perp the right-wing comes out in force about how important the 2nd Amendment is and we shouldn't let these sorts of things stop our access to increase the coffers of the gun industry. Mental health issues are also casually addressed.
When a black/Muslim is involved, all of a sudden it becomes about the entire race or religion. How the moderates aren't doing enough to prevent these things.
laughing dog
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If the OP and Jimmy did make the actual event all about race, I'd agree. But neither did, so it is not hypocritical.
You can gussy up your guesses all you want with glitzy nomenclature, but that does not make them any less a guess.
Of course there is. It is just as plausible that person did not care whether he lived or died. Now, if you wish to add in emotional distress, it is just as plausible this person was not thinking rationally at all which meant he did not have a competent mental state to make any decision about life or death.
Y
jab
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Trump didn't make any pronouncement on that young white supremecist terrorist who massacred the congregation of a black church--did he? Why would one expect anything different in this case?
Keith&Co.
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Few years back, a little girl fell down a well and there was a massive rescue effort mobilized to save her. Reagan sent her a teddy bear.
A little bit after that, a child got AIDS from a blood transfusion and loving neighbors burned his family's house down to get them to leave the community. Reagan did not send a Teddy bear.
I honestly have no idea if Reagan knew anything about the teddy bear, but part of the government machine of running the country has people who read headlines and send cards, or condolences, or congratulations from the President's office, to reflect the fact that he's aware of what's going on in the country.
They do it on the campaign all the time, the candidate's office will send out a statement on any sort of news-worthy item as soon as the guys on the bus hear about it, whether the candidate's even awake or not.
Someone should have the PR power to at least slip a statement across FFvC's desk for a signature or to be aware that a statement is going out in his name. Or brief him later. "We denounced this act.'" or "You blamed this event on Common Core" or whatever. Or "you cautioned people that if Hillary were President, she'd use this to disarm the nation."
When these no-brainer position statements do NOT come out at obvious opportunities, it makes one question
1) the priorities of the machine
2) the competence of the machine
3) the existence of the machine
Seven dead, it shouldn't be hard to figure out of POTUS is or isn't in favor of such things and make a comment about it. He certainly made a big deal about such shootings when Obama could be blamed.