A billionaire silicon valley gay innovator tells us why people like Trump. And it sure makes a lot of sense to me.

[RVonse]

A great speech by Peter Thiel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfYLEPRiIyE

He explains the popularity of Trump better than anything I have seen so far. Basically that Trump has done a lot of things he does not agree with, but that he gets the big things right. That the leadership of this country has been a bigger freek show than the election itself. And that Trump is the only outsider in the race at this point.

The video is not that long and well worth the watch IMO.


No matter what happens in this election, what Trump represents isn't crazy and it's not going away," he said, according to prepared remarks. "He points toward a new Republican Party beyond the dogmas of Reaganism. He points even beyond the remaking of one party to a new American politics that overcomes denial, rejects bubble thinking and reckons with reality.

 

[zorq]

His main thesis comes at around 4:30 where he says "We're voting for Trump because we judged the leadership of our country to have failed."

He then gives two examples of the big things that Trump is right about. The first is Trump's protectionist rhetoric, anti-globalism anti-free trade. He claims that free trade doesn't help the lower classes. I think he's wrong, but overall but it's easy to see why a lot of workers who have had their jobs shipped overseas would disagree.

The second thing he says that Trump gets right is his military isolationist rhetoric. He claims that Clinton (in 2013) was considering a no-fly zone over Syria, that would start a war with Russia if implemented today. That particular issue has been discussed elsewhere, and I would characterize it as desperate fear-mongering. Besides, the problem with government's recent warmongering isn't because the current political dynasties are corrupt war mongers. The problem is that the AMERICAN PEOPLE are warmongers. 72% of Americans supported going to war in Iraq.

Finally, I think a different source identifies the actual origin of Trump's appeal. This Vox article offers an interesting opinion on the subject. In short, the Republicans have unintentionally groomed a big chunk of their base to distrust everything the government does and now they can't be reasoned with. My summary of the article and some of my thoghts on it is hidden below.

Show

Basically, 30 years ago, the Republicans started insisting wide and far that all government actions are ineffective. This strategy was used successfully to break the Democratic stranglehold on the House of Representatives. Claim the government is a disaster. Help make government action disaster. The party in control will take the blame. It worked for the Republicans, and in 1994 the Republicans finally took the House, but they opened a Pandora's box.

Distrust of the government has been growing for three decades. After Obama's win in 2008 the Republicans returned to the strategy they used to successfully destroy Democrats in power before. Obstruct everything, never compromise, and blame it all on the party in power. Unfortunately for them, their base of voters has been steeped in anti-government rhetoric for too long now, from continuous exposure to AM radio and Fairly Biased cable news channels. And even the Republicans Base recognize the huge failures of the Bush Administration and all the other Republicans complicit in those failures. So these voters are incapable of trusting Democrats who are always trying to use an evil government "against them". But now they distrust establishment Republicans too because they are partially perceived to have crashed the economy twice and pushed the US into some "pointless" wars. Costing a lot of money and jobs.

So these voters have essentially gone rogue. Can the Republican establishment recapture them or are they strong enough now that they can capture the Republican establishment? I don't know, but I do know that Trump supporters are unlikely to compromise.

 

[Harry Bosch]

A great speech by Peter Thiel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfYLEPRiIyE

He explains the popularity of Trump better than anything I have seen so far. Basically that Trump has done a lot of things he does not agree with, but that he gets the big things right. That the leadership of this country has been a bigger freek show than the election itself. And that Trump is the only outsider in the race at this point.

The video is not that long and well worth the watch IMO.


No matter what happens in this election, what Trump represents isn't crazy and it's not going away," he said, according to prepared remarks. "He points toward a new Republican Party beyond the dogmas of Reaganism. He points even beyond the remaking of one party to a new American politics that overcomes denial, rejects bubble thinking and reckons with reality.

What are the big things that Trump gets right? I can't think of a single big issue that I agree with him on. There were some things that I liked about Mitt and even Bush jr. I can't think of any issue regarding Trump that is right. Please help me understand.......

 

[iolo]

A great speech by Peter Thiel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfYLEPRiIyE

He explains the popularity of Trump better than anything I have seen so far. Basically that Trump has done a lot of things he does not agree with, but that he gets the big things right. That the leadership of this country has been a bigger freek show than the election itself. And that Trump is the only outsider in the race at this point.

The video is not that long and well worth the watch IMO.


No matter what happens in this election, what Trump represents isn't crazy and it's not going away," he said, according to prepared remarks. "He points toward a new Republican Party beyond the dogmas of Reaganism. He points even beyond the remaking of one party to a new American politics that overcomes denial, rejects bubble thinking and reckons with reality.

What are the big things that Trump gets right? I can't think of a single big issue that I agree with him on. There were some things that I liked about Mitt and even Bush jr. I can't think of any issue regarding Trump that is right. Please help me understand.......

Trump, surely, just says anything really stupid people like to hear, and hopes to forget it all later while he uses the position to steal more money?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Yes. Trump is the burn it all down and start over candidate. The big question here is after he loses the election, will the government and parties change any to become less corrupt and more accountable or will the next election feature a smarter slicker and less self sabotaging version of Trump who will win?

 

[RVonse]

His main thesis comes at around 4:30 where he says "We're voting for Trump because we judged the leadership of our country to have failed."

He then gives two examples of the big things that Trump is right about. The first is Trump's protectionist rhetoric, anti-globalism anti-free trade. He claims that free trade doesn't help the lower classes. I think he's wrong, but overall but it's easy to see why a lot of workers who have had their jobs shipped overseas would disagree.

The second thing he says that Trump gets right is his military isolationist rhetoric. He claims that Clinton (in 2013) was considering a no-fly zone over Syria, that would start a war with Russia if implemented today. That particular issue has been discussed elsewhere, and I would characterize it as desperate fear-mongering. Besides, the problem with government's recent warmongering isn't because the current political dynasties are corrupt war mongers. The problem is that the AMERICAN PEOPLE are warmongers. 72% of Americans supported going to war in Iraq.

Finally, I think a different source identifies the actual origin of Trump's appeal. This Vox article offers an interesting opinion on the subject. In short, the Republicans have unintentionally groomed a big chunk of their base to distrust everything the government does and now they can't be reasoned with. My summary of the article and some of my thoghts on it is hidden below.

Show

Basically, 30 years ago, the Republicans started insisting wide and far that all government actions are ineffective. This strategy was used successfully to break the Democratic stranglehold on the House of Representatives. Claim the government is a disaster. Help make government action disaster. The party in control will take the blame. It worked for the Republicans, and in 1994 the Republicans finally took the House, but they opened a Pandora's box.

Distrust of the government has been growing for three decades. After Obama's win in 2008 the Republicans returned to the strategy they used to successfully destroy Democrats in power before. Obstruct everything, never compromise, and blame it all on the party in power. Unfortunately for them, their base of voters has been steeped in anti-government rhetoric for too long now, from continuous exposure to AM radio and Fairly Biased cable news channels. And even the Republicans Base recognize the huge failures of the Bush Administration and all the other Republicans complicit in those failures. So these voters are incapable of trusting Democrats who are always trying to use an evil government "against them". But now they distrust establishment Republicans too because they are partially perceived to have crashed the economy twice and pushed the US into some "pointless" wars. Costing a lot of money and jobs.

So these voters have essentially gone rogue. Can the Republican establishment recapture them or are they strong enough now that they can capture the Republican establishment? I don't know, but I do know that Trump supporters are unlikely to compromise.

As far as Hillary goes, she said in the 3rd debate she would enact a "no" fly zone in Syria. That's about as war mongering as you can get and it came straight from the horses mouth. Far different than any stance by Trump. She could start WW3 with a no fly zone.

And for the rest of what you wrote, I actually believe it is possible for both views to be correct at the same time.

 

[RVonse]

A great speech by Peter Thiel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfYLEPRiIyE

He explains the popularity of Trump better than anything I have seen so far. Basically that Trump has done a lot of things he does not agree with, but that he gets the big things right. That the leadership of this country has been a bigger freek show than the election itself. And that Trump is the only outsider in the race at this point.

The video is not that long and well worth the watch IMO.


No matter what happens in this election, what Trump represents isn't crazy and it's not going away," he said, according to prepared remarks. "He points toward a new Republican Party beyond the dogmas of Reaganism. He points even beyond the remaking of one party to a new American politics that overcomes denial, rejects bubble thinking and reckons with reality.

What are the big things that Trump gets right? I can't think of a single big issue that I agree with him on. There were some things that I liked about Mitt and even Bush jr. I can't think of any issue regarding Trump that is right. Please help me understand.......

For the first time, someone running for POTUS admits what all of us in "fly over country" already know. That this country is fucked up...maybe even FUBRed. We gave away all our manufacturing jobs, we have a financial industry that is way too big, our healthcare is substandard and expensive, college tuition costs way too much and nobody can use their degree when they graduate....Trump is right about the big things like that.

 

[RVonse]

What are the big things that Trump gets right? I can't think of a single big issue that I agree with him on. There were some things that I liked about Mitt and even Bush jr. I can't think of any issue regarding Trump that is right. Please help me understand.......

Trump, surely, just says anything really stupid people like to hear, and hopes to forget it all later while he uses the position to steal more money?

That's what bothers me a little. Bringing in Pence for his running mate did not seem consistent with the rest of his rhetoric to me. One does have to wonder if he will actually do what his platform promises to do even though the vice president takes a 180 degree view.

 

[RVonse]

Yes. Trump is the burn it all down and start over candidate.

Bernie was that way too. The bigger question is whether the parties will notice what has occurred enough to change their business as usual modes operand i. I'm betting that they won't.

 

[Elixir]

As far as Hillary goes, she said in the 3rd debate she would enact a "no" fly zone in Syria. That's about as war mongering as you can get and it came straight from the horses mouth.

Yeah - that's as warmongering as it can get... short of passing out nukes like candy, to Saudi Arabia, Japan, S Korea... straight from YOUR horse's ass. "We have nukes, why can't we use them?" whines the orange-faced toddler...

 

[funinspace]

As far as Hillary goes, she said in the 3rd debate she would enact a "no" fly zone in Syria. That's about as war mongering as you can get and it came straight from the horses mouth.

Yeah - that's as warmongering as it can get... short of passing out nukes like candy, to Saudi Arabia, Japan, S Korea... straight from YOUR horse's ass. "We have nukes, why can't we use them?" whines the orange-faced toddler...

Hey, you left of the 20,000-30,000 boots on the ground in Syria; along with the Death Squads he would initiate, or was that expanded Drone wars upon a dozen additional countries? I know pretty trivial after those nuke notions...

 

[Horatio Parker]

I guess the lesson is that finance/private equity/hedge fund type people are bad when they support Hillary, but good when they support Trump.

 

[Will Wiley]

What are the big things that Trump gets right? I can't think of a single big issue that I agree with him on. There were some things that I liked about Mitt and even Bush jr. I can't think of any issue regarding Trump that is right. Please help me understand.......

Restoring relations with Russia rather than trying to start a war with them is an obvious one. Obvious unless you like the prospect of nuclear war

 

[EricK]

I thought this article did a good job of explaining why Trump is popular:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

 

[RVonse]

I thought this article did a good job of explaining why Trump is popular:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

Good read, thanks for sharing.

 

[Elixir]

Yeah - that's as warmongering as it can get... short of passing out nukes like candy, to Saudi Arabia, Japan, S Korea... straight from YOUR horse's ass. "We have nukes, why can't we use them?" whines the orange-faced toddler...

Hey, you left of the 20,000-30,000 boots on the ground in Syria; along with the Death Squads he would initiate, or was that expanded Drone wars upon a dozen additional countries? I know pretty trivial after those nuke notions...

Who needs that shit? "We have nukes - why can't we use them" Once we nuke ISIS we should nuke all the illegal immigrants. Sure, there might be some collateral damage, but those fuckers won't be stealing our jobs any more!

Restoring relations with Russia ...

Yeah, that would be a great idea. OTOH, installing an orange Putin Puppet in the White House might not restore relations with Russia, so much as provide for the melding of two oligarchies into one.

 

[bilby]

What are the big things that Trump gets right? I can't think of a single big issue that I agree with him on. There were some things that I liked about Mitt and even Bush jr. I can't think of any issue regarding Trump that is right. Please help me understand.......

For the first time, someone running for POTUS admits what all of us in "fly over country" already know. That this country is fucked up...maybe even FUBRed. We gave away all our manufacturing jobs, we have a financial industry that is way too big, our healthcare is substandard and expensive, college tuition costs way too much and nobody can use their degree when they graduate....Trump is right about the big things like that.

'Fly over country' is FUBARed. The nation as a whole is far from it.

The reason why people in rural America are struggling has nothing to do with who occupies the White House. The fact is that the modern world no longer requires rural America. Those who live there need to either move to the cities, or accept that they are on the scrap-heap of history.

Modern farming requires almost no labour. Modern industry has access to very cheap transport options, and no longer requires an extensive network of regional manufacturing (or even distribution) hubs.

The jobs in rural America have gone, and they are not coming back. If you were a steelworker in Sheffield, England or Pittsburgh, PA, chances are your job disappeared in the 1980s. You had a choice - stay put, train your children to do the jobs that no longer exist, and blame the government; or go somewhere else, retrain, and do something new.

It's terribly sad when a way of life simply vanishes. It's traumatic and painful for those involved. But smashing the place up and blaming your woes on the government doesn't actually solve the problem. Fascists might make you feel a bit better by giving you a scapegoat and encouraging you to beat the crap out of them - but they are not really helping. Rural America is as dead as the Detroit motor industry. It was great while it lasted. Now it's over.


ETA:

This is basically the same argument, but better written:

I thought this article did a good job of explaining why Trump is popular:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

 

[RVonse]

For the first time, someone running for POTUS admits what all of us in "fly over country" already know. That this country is fucked up...maybe even FUBRed. We gave away all our manufacturing jobs, we have a financial industry that is way too big, our healthcare is substandard and expensive, college tuition costs way too much and nobody can use their degree when they graduate....Trump is right about the big things like that.

'Fly over country' is FUBARed. The nation as a whole is far from it.

The reason why people in rural America are struggling has nothing to do with who occupies the White House. The fact is that the modern world no longer requires rural America. Those who live there need to either move to the cities, or accept that they are on the scrap-heap of history.

Modern farming requires almost no labour. Modern industry has access to very cheap transport options, and no longer requires an extensive network of regional manufacturing (or even distribution) hubs.

The jobs in rural America have gone, and they are not coming back. If you were a steelworker in Sheffield, England or Pittsburgh, PA, chances are your job disappeared in the 1980s. You had a choice - stay put, train your children to do the jobs that no longer exist, and blame the government; or go somewhere else, retrain, and do something new.

It's terribly sad when a way of life simply vanishes. It's traumatic and painful for those involved. But smashing the place up and blaming your woes on the government doesn't actually solve the problem. Fascists might make you feel a bit better by giving you a scapegoat and encouraging you to beat the crap out of them - but they are not really helping. Rural America is as dead as the Detroit motor industry. It was great while it lasted. Now it's over.


ETA:

This is basically the same argument, but better written:

I thought this article did a good job of explaining why Trump is popular:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

I agree with your assessment but I disagree that it had to happen. Only the farming jobs have been long lost to technology, not the manufacturing jobs. Not the auto jobs, not the white appliance jobs, not the electronics jobs, and not the textile jobs. They were shipped to Asia and right now China and Asia are enjoying the GNP and wealth that comes from those jobs. Trump is correct that they were shipped to Asia because of bad leadership and trade policy. Trump claims he can get them back but obviously that will depend on whether or not he gets elected. But make no mistake that manufacturing can be done right here in the US given correct tax and trade policy.

Manufacturing is the only basis of real wealth other than minerals that might be in the ground. Financial services sound good, but all that really happens is money changing hands and nothing ever really gets produced. Unfortunately this country chose a wrong path towards a financial services economy in favor of manufacturing starting as you said in about the 1980's.

As for whether or not manufacturing will be viable in the future due to technology, that is hard to say. But there are people like Loren who think it will be many generations in the future before robots are successfully able to take over manufacturing. In the meantime a good politician (not saying Trump is) should be finding ways to improve manufacturing and rural area's of the country because plenty of good people still live there.

 

[bilby]

'Fly over country' is FUBARed. The nation as a whole is far from it.

The reason why people in rural America are struggling has nothing to do with who occupies the White House. The fact is that the modern world no longer requires rural America. Those who live there need to either move to the cities, or accept that they are on the scrap-heap of history.

Modern farming requires almost no labour. Modern industry has access to very cheap transport options, and no longer requires an extensive network of regional manufacturing (or even distribution) hubs.

The jobs in rural America have gone, and they are not coming back. If you were a steelworker in Sheffield, England or Pittsburgh, PA, chances are your job disappeared in the 1980s. You had a choice - stay put, train your children to do the jobs that no longer exist, and blame the government; or go somewhere else, retrain, and do something new.

It's terribly sad when a way of life simply vanishes. It's traumatic and painful for those involved. But smashing the place up and blaming your woes on the government doesn't actually solve the problem. Fascists might make you feel a bit better by giving you a scapegoat and encouraging you to beat the crap out of them - but they are not really helping. Rural America is as dead as the Detroit motor industry. It was great while it lasted. Now it's over.


ETA:

This is basically the same argument, but better written:

I thought this article did a good job of explaining why Trump is popular:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

I agree with your assessment but I disagree that it had to happen. Only the farming jobs have been long lost to technology, not the manufacturing jobs. Not the auto jobs, not the white appliance jobs, not the electronics jobs, and not the textile jobs. They were shipped to Asia and right now China and Asia are enjoying the GNP and wealth that comes from those jobs. Trump is correct that they were shipped to Asia because of bad leadership and trade policy. Trump claims he can get them back but obviously that will depend on whether or not he gets elected. But make no mistake that manufacturing can be done right here in the US given correct tax and trade policy.

Manufacturing is the only basis of real wealth other than minerals that might be in the ground. Financial services sound good, but all that really happens is money changing hands and nothing ever really gets produced. Unfortunately this country chose a wrong path towards a financial services economy in favor of manufacturing starting as you said in about the 1980's.

As for whether or not manufacturing will be viable in the future due to technology, that is hard to say. But there are people like Loren who think it will be many generations in the future before robots are successfully able to take over manufacturing. In the meantime a good politician (not saying Trump is) should be finding ways to improve manufacturing and rural area's of the country because plenty of good people still live there.

Manufacturing isn't coming back to rural USA no matter who is elected.

In the highly unlikely event that manufacturing did return to the US, there are lots of very good reasons for it to be located in existing urban centres.

But it's not coming back anyway. Any more than typing pools, gas lamp lighters, farriers, whalers and file clerks are coming back. These are jobs that simply don't exist anymore. A modern factory employs a tenth of the people that were needed in the 1950s to make the same amount of stuff - maybe fewer. The only jobs that can be done better in rural than urban areas in the USA are trucking, mining and farming. None employs anything like the number of people that used to be needed. No matter who the POTUS is, this will not change for the better. in fact, it is about to get a LOT worse. Because trucks are going to start driving themselves.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/25/technology/otto-budweiser-self-driving-truck/

No politician, no matter how good, can change this; Anymore than he could bring back all those lost file clerk jobs in big corporations. those good people who still live in rural America need to understand that being a good person isn't going to put food on the table. Not even if they bring in a fascist loony to destroy the rest of the country.

Being a good person doesn't guarantee you a job. Red states are hurting because the world has changed. it's never changing back no matter how good they are, how diligent or hardworking they are, nor how angry they get.

 

[RVonse]

I guess the lesson is that finance/private equity/hedge fund type people are bad when they support Hillary, but good when they support Trump.

You would have made a good point excepting for the fact that this guy did not make his fortune with hedge funds, he made it starting paypal and giving angel capital to Facebook.