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A Gun Question

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steve_bank

Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
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seattle
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secular-skeptic
If you do not own guns and are maybe oppose gun ownership, at what point would you consider arming yourself?

Here in Seattle the police department has effectively been destroyed by city councll policy, along with state policy.

SPD continues to lose more officers than it hires. Property crime, home invasions, armed robbery, armed assault on the streets are on the rise. The police and the justice system no longer appear to be a deterrent. Police response time sare up.

A few days ago at a bus stop there was an angry man walking around with a stick. An old woman with a walker started talking to me. She was shaking and terrified.

Old people are being targeted. A few weeks ago a man attacked an old couple with a hammer at a light rail station.

At what point would you consider keeping a gun at home and carrying one?

There is a recent video from a home surveillance camera of an attempted armed home invasion. Men were trying to kick in the front door, and the owner shot through thedoor scaring them off.
 
I already do own guns. Long ago, I got tired of attempts to rob me, which has happened three times in the past. Since I do not often leave home nowadays, I rarely carry.
 
I've never been a victim of crime with the exception of a pair of speakers stolen out of my '92 Nissan pickup back in about '95. Even then they were courteous enough to unscrew and properly disconnect them. And this was parked on the street at the San Diego shipyards. So in sixty years on the planet, that's it.

I would not carry unless the situation absolutely warranted. Carrying sucks. I know from standing watch and roving patrol watches in the navy, carrying just a 9mm pistol for four hours gets burdensome. It seems to get heavier with each passing hour.
Toting one around with you in and out of a vehicle would probably be a pain also.

Then there is the home invasion thing. Think about it. Criminals usually come unannounced. For all intents and purposes you'd have to have the gun on your person, loaded, safety on at home too, carrying it around from room to room. Are you really going to do that day in and day out?

Then for me, if I'm being honest there is an anger aspect to consider, remote but possible. I'm not a big people person and I've had my fair share of bad days to be sure. I imagine a particularly bad day and then some jerk cuts me off. I'm 99% sure I possess the self control necessary to maintain but, you know, once that round leaves the gun, there's no taking it back.

I do have a home defense hatchet. It's much more deliberate. Burying a metal object inside another human being takes a lot, psychologically speaking. I would think. Then again, I guess it depend upon the person.
 
Hanging on a wall by the backdoor, which gets far more use than the front door, I have a big fat can of bear spray. The house also has burglar bars protecting the door.
 
Dog yard/ mud room door … an air rifle (pellet gun).
In a social collapse I’d be eating a lot of rabbits and small birds. I should probably have a deer rifle for the apocalypse but I don’t want to have to keep a gun in the house, maintain the gun, ammo and associated gear (I don’t even have ear protection), let alone practice to maintain proficiency… all in all its too big of a PITA and it’s fucking dangerous.
 
steve_bank said:
At what point would you consider keeping a gun at home and carrying one?
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Probably never.

It's illegal for me to own a unless I join a gun club. And even then I would need to lock up my gun in a gun safe to comply with the law and to make sure my kids can't play with it, and it's 100% illegal to carry around a fireman for self defence.

After I weigh up all the legal and safety risks the safest option is just to not have a gun at all.

Once I'm a frail old man I'll probably just invest in some roller shutters if I feel the need to fortify my house.

In the event of social collapse I'll see if I can get a combo deal on a sawed-off double barrel shotgun and a leather jacket with spiky shoulder pads.
 
steve_bank said:
At what point would you consider keeping a gun at home and carrying one?
Click to expand...

I grew up around guns. My father was an avid hunter, an Army veteran, and had a few shotguns, rifles, and one pistol. He was also an NRA member (before the association went nuts in the 80s), I read the magazines we got as a kid, and took an NRA sponsored gun safety course back in the 1970s.

Guns were for hunting, sport shooting, and (if you had the means) collecting. The takeaway from that course I took was in line with what my father taught me about guns: You never, ever, ever pointed one at another human being. Not intentionally, not by accident, and not through negligence. Always know what was down range, keep your finger off the trigger and the safety on until you are ready to fire, and if there's any chance that anyone around you might be hit by a stray round, do not pull that trigger.

I also know -from plenty of time shooting everything from a pellet gun to a 50 cal muzzle loader - that I am terrible shot. Broad sides of barns are safe from my shooting prowess. The thought of me waking up and blearily putting a bullet between the eyes of an intrepid home invader is absurd.
 
I grew up in a household with a decent number of hunting rifles and shotguns. They were not locked up. Nor were they ever, ever kept loaded in the house. We were not allowed to touch those guns and we took that warning extremely seriously.

My father, uncle and grandfather all hunted, mostly small game and birds, but occasionally deer or a fox that was disturbing the chickens ( there was a bounty on foxes then) or woodchucks that were a dangerous nuisance in the cow pastures. All were vey good shots and my grandfather was an expert marksman, with stories still being told about his proficiency 25 years after his death.

My uncle, who farmed, was robbed in his own farmhouse by thieves who were after his guns. My uncle, who had hunted his entire life and who served in WWII, and who, despite not being a very big man, was an extremely imposing one ( I saw him quietly but forcefully refuse to allow a drunk man looking for his wife to touch his vehicle or advance to my house where the drunk thought his wife might be hiding. No loud words, no threats or cussing. Just a quiet: I wouldn’t do that. Drunk guy was 6’2 to my uncle’s 5’8 and probably at least 15 years younger and in very good shape. Drunk turned and started heading to a neighbors house where my father disarmed him of the bat he was about to attack the neighbor lady who was taking a bath at the time. Police were called, drunk arrested and tossed my dad his wallet because he didn’t trust the cops. This ( drunk guy threatening people and loudly cussing) was highly unusual in my neighborhood.)

Anyway, my uncle was a lifelong farmer and outdoorsman and very fit. He thought he could reach his gun first. One of the thief’s shot at him, with one of my Ickes own guns, missing my uncle’s head by a couple of inches. They never caught the thieves. All the guns were stolen and afaik, never recovered.

So, no, I don’t trust my ability nor any of my family’s ability to defend our home in the event of a robbery.

BTW, my grandparents were also robbed at gunpoint at their farmhouse, and another close family member was the victim of an armed home invasion—suspects were apprehended and arrested, with no shots and no injuries. Also without getting any cash or valuables.

I’m not a big believer in the efficacy of guns as a personal safety measure. In my family’s experience, experience, better off letting the thief’s take your stuff. This includes people who were extremely proficient with firearms.

Would I change my mind? Well, frankly if I were that afraid, I’d move.
 
I'm not going to post it but there is a video from Beau about this topic so I'll summarize;

Do you have an IFAK or STOMP kit in your house and your car?
Are you trained in first aid and is your training current and up to date?
Do you have a spare battery for your mobile (cell phone for Americans)?
Do you have spare batteries for your smoke detectors around your house?

If you answer no to any of these question don't even think about owning a firearm. You don't have what it takes to handle that responsibility.
 
For the home I consider bars the best defense. Other than that--I would have said that a Trump win would make me seriously consider a CCW permit, not because of the random street crime but because my wife is Chinese and I would worry about MAGAs. My health has been declining, I would no longer go that route.

I do not consider most first aid training relevant. Problems basically come down to don't-need-a-doctor (at which point you have plenty of time to look up the right answers)/need-a-doctor (at which point you get one)/need-to-keep-alive-until-the-doctor (which is the part of "first aid" that actually matters.) I do have a tourniquet and coagulants in my pack, but not things like chest seals as in the backcountry I would not expect serious penetrating trauma. I also place little value on CPR--it's occasionally useful when the heart is the problem, but when the heart stops because of factors external to the heart there's no point. You can get a traumatic arrest from blunt force (happens sometimes with athletes) where CPR can help, but it's rare.

Given our heat storing most first aid stuff in the car would be an exercise in futility.
 
Sometimes good things happen because of guns but far, far, far more often something bad happens. If you want to play the odds don't carry or own a firearm. If there's a particular part of town that is dangerous don't go there. If you have to go there and feel confident enough maybe have some pepper/bear spray, but practice using it to make sure it still works. Doesn't always work on bears but in someone's face it generally gets the job done. You're not defenseless but you don't have the danger associated with a gun.

I've known two people who were shot with a family firearm. Neither died. They were lucky.
 
Point about bars in your windows: talk to your insurer first.
I helped a friend remove some from a home he recently purchased as his insurer said no insurance for you until those bars come off.
With those tighten only security screws used to screw them through the stucco and into the framing, they were a bitch to remove. We were turning them out with an air chisel.
 
TV and credit cards said:
Point about bars in your windows: talk to your insurer first.
I helped a friend remove some from a home he recently purchased as his insurer said no insurance for you until those bars come off.
With those tighten only security screws used to screw them through the stucco and into the framing, they were a bitch to remove. We were turning them out with an air chisel.
Click to expand...
Due to locking people in during a fire, I assume.
 
ZiprHead said:
TV and credit cards said:
Point about bars in your windows: talk to your insurer first.
I helped a friend remove some from a home he recently purchased as his insurer said no insurance for you until those bars come off.
With those tighten only security screws used to screw them through the stucco and into the framing, they were a bitch to remove. We were turning them out with an air chisel.
Click to expand...
Due to locking people in during a fire, I assume.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that could be a horrible sight for sure. To think a family member got trapped for no other reason.
Those are some serious screws securing them, four inches long as I recall.

I think I'll take my chances. If I can screw up the courage I'll raise my hatchet high, run at them screaming like a mad man and hope they freak out and run. Damn sure ain't gonna stand there and try and reason with them.
 
TV and credit cards said:
Point about bars in your windows: talk to your insurer first.
I helped a friend remove some from a home he recently purchased as his insurer said no insurance for you until those bars come off.
With those tighten only security screws used to screw them through the stucco and into the framing, they were a bitch to remove. We were turning them out with an air chisel.
Click to expand...

We have burglar bars. In the rear of this building, we have one window. It has burglar bars. But the bars are on a hinge that swings out to allow an emergency escape. The latch has a metal shield. From inside it is easy to open but from outside anatomically impossible to reach aroung the shield to open the bars. This was added to pass code, and ake insurance companies happy.
 
I have not owned a gun since my discharge from the Marine Corps in 1971 and I have no desire to ever touch a gun again.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
Sometimes good things happen because of guns but far, far, far more often something bad happens. If you want to play the odds don't carry or own a firearm. If there's a particular part of town that is dangerous don't go there. If you have to go there and feel confident enough maybe have some pepper/bear spray, but practice using it to make sure it still works. Doesn't always work on bears but in someone's face it generally gets the job done. You're not defenseless but you don't have the danger associated with a gun.

I've known two people who were shot with a family firearm. Neither died. They were lucky.
Click to expand...
Pepper is actually better than bear. Bear is large volume but actually weaker.
 
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