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A logical argument for the unity of personhood

PyramidHead

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P1. If my brain were split in two and the halves were successfully implanted into two new bodies, each body would have its own independent stream of consciousness simultaneously, with no access to that of the other.

P2. If the two halves were subsequently recombined into a whole and successfully implanted in a single body, this body would have a single stream of consciousness with full access to the memories of what both previous bodies experienced.

P3. Although each original half could only experience its own stream of consciousness while divided, the resulting unified brain would remember both streams of consciousness as if they were events from its own past.

P4. Unlike the ordinary process of recalling past events, the experiences of each original half could not be ordered in time with respect to each other by the resulting unified brain; there is no answer to the question of which half was experienced "first" by the single stream of consciousness generated by the unified brain.

P5. Since the now-unified brain has unbroken psychological connections to the experiences of both halves during the split as well as its own experiences before the split, it is the same person as each half during the split and itself before the split.

P6. During the split, each half of the brain was the same person as the other half, the same person as the brain prior to the split, and the same person as the recombined brain in the future, even if the recombination had not yet taken place or would never take place. (Transitive property of identity.)


C1. It is possible to be the same person as someone who exists simultaneously and has different brain matter.

C2. If all human brains were successfully merged together, the resulting unified brain would have access to all the memories of each connected brain in the same way that the unified single brain had access to the memories of each half during the split.

C3. This unified brain would have no way of sorting the individual stories from the connected brains relative to each other, as they occurred simultaneously before the brains were merged.

C4. Since the unified brain would have unbroken psychological access to each connected brain, it is really the same person as each of those brains.

C5. If the individual brains are all the same person as the unified brain, they are all the same person as each other, and would be the same person even if they had not been merged.

C6. We are all actually the same person.

I anticipate objections between P5 and P6. It is unproblematic to say that a single brain with one stream of consciousness, remembering everything that happened to its brain, is a single person. This is what we say about ourselves and others all the time. We also accept that numerical identity is transitive and indivisible. That is, if a and b are identical to c, a is numerically identical to b (i.e. they are all just one actual thing). Further, if a, b, and c are all numerically identical at time t, they are numerically identical at times t-1 and t+1. In order to deny P6, one must assert one of the following things:

1) The person who exists after the brain is split and recombined is not the same person as the original halves of the brain, but it is the same person as the original brain before the split.
2) The person who exists after the brain is split and recombined is not even the same person as the original brain before the split.

Option 1 is harder to defend than 2, because it implies that numerically the same thing existed at time t (before the split) and time t+2 (after the recombination), but not at time t+1 (during the split). This is an exception to how we normally think about identity that needs its own justification. Option 2 commits one to the view that despite having direct psychological connection/access to all of your memories and experiences, you are not the same person as any time-slice of your brain during its existence. This conclusion is tantamount to denying that persons exist at all, and is not far from saying we are all the same person. In either case, the number of persons is not greater than 1, and it is false to say you are a different person from anyone else. However, taking option 2 necessitates abandoning the powerful intuition that you are a person, period. To reconcile option 2 with the conclusion of my argument, I will say this: to the extent that you are the same person as the person who started reading this sentence from where you are sitting, you are the same person as me and any other being with consciousness.
 
P1. If my brain were split in two and the halves were successfully implanted into two new bodies, each body would have its own independent stream of consciousness simultaneously, with no access to that of the other.

Says who?
 
P1. If my brain were split in two and the halves were successfully implanted into two new bodies, each body would have its own independent stream of consciousness simultaneously, with no access to that of the other.

Says who?

We have evidence that it is possible to live relatively normally with only half a brain. Some people have large portions of their brain removed after injury or cancer, and survive the procedure with impaired functionality but otherwise intact. So, it's not a big leap to imagine a healthy brain being divided in half; all you have to accept is that brain transplantation is at least possible in theory. After that, you'd have two bodies, each with enough brain matter to allow them to function. One body could go to the supermarket while the other stayed home. That's all I meant by independent streams of consciousness. The one at the supermarket wouldn't have any access to the sensory input of the one at home, and vice versa.
 
Says who?

We have evidence that it is possible to live relatively normally with only half a brain. Some people have large portions of their brain removed after injury or cancer, and survive the procedure with impaired functionality but otherwise intact. So, it's not a big leap to imagine a healthy brain being divided in half; all you have to accept is that brain transplantation is at least possible in theory. After that, you'd have two bodies, each with enough brain matter to allow them to function. One body could go to the supermarket while the other stayed home. That's all I meant by independent streams of consciousness. The one at the supermarket wouldn't have any access to the sensory input of the one at home, and vice versa.

It's the transplanting of a functioning brain or half a brain that holds me up.

And then the rejoining of severed neural tissues is a hold up as well.
 
We have evidence that it is possible to live relatively normally with only half a brain. Some people have large portions of their brain removed after injury or cancer, and survive the procedure with impaired functionality but otherwise intact. So, it's not a big leap to imagine a healthy brain being divided in half; all you have to accept is that brain transplantation is at least possible in theory. After that, you'd have two bodies, each with enough brain matter to allow them to function. One body could go to the supermarket while the other stayed home. That's all I meant by independent streams of consciousness. The one at the supermarket wouldn't have any access to the sensory input of the one at home, and vice versa.

It's the transplanting of a functioning brain or half a brain that holds me up.

And then the rejoining of severed neural tissues is a hold up as well.

Unless there's something logically (not just technologically) impossible about that, it's just something to accept for the sake of argument. It's a thought experiment, so you can replace it with whatever version of events is most palatable to your intuition without changing the outcome.
 
It's the transplanting of a functioning brain or half a brain that holds me up.

And then the rejoining of severed neural tissues is a hold up as well.

Unless there's something logically (not just technologically) impossible about that, it's just something to accept for the sake of argument. It's a thought experiment, so you can replace it with whatever version of events is most palatable to your intuition without changing the outcome.

That's fine. For me they represent the end of the line of reasonable thought, especially the rejoining of severed tissues.
 
First you need to define what personhood is.

In America, it is primarily a legal term for corporate Personhood, and also for when American citizens get our Constitutional rights, which is at birth, and not at conception.
 
First you need to define what personhood is.

In America, it is primarily a legal term for corporate Personhood, and also for when American citizens get our Constitutional rights, which is at birth, and not at conception.

Personhood is just whatever relation you think holds between you right now and you a minute ago that makes you the same person both times.

- - - Updated - - -

Unless there's something logically (not just technologically) impossible about that, it's just something to accept for the sake of argument. It's a thought experiment, so you can replace it with whatever version of events is most palatable to your intuition without changing the outcome.

That's fine. For me they represent the end of the line of reasonable thought, especially the rejoining of severed tissues.

Are you unaware that organ transplants and limb reattachments are regular events in modern medicine? Or do you just not like thought experiments in general?
 
So if I said I identified myself as the hubcap of a semi truck that would be personhood?

AN interesting notion that a hubcap can be a person.
 
So if I said I identified myself as the hubcap of a semi truck that would be personhood?

AN interesting notion that a hubcap can be a person.

Personhood is just whatever relation you think holds between you right now and you a minute ago that makes you the same person both times.

Do you think you are the same person as the one who made the dumb joke about being a hubcap a minute ago?
 
So if I said I identified myself as the hubcap of a semi truck that would be personhood?

AN interesting notion that a hubcap can be a person.

Personhood is just whatever relation you think holds between you right now and you a minute ago that makes you the same person both times.

Do you think you are the same person as the one who made the dumb joke about being a hubcap a minute ago?

It wasn't a joke.

Your definition of personhood and conscious is a very faulty one.

And a second is like an eternity unto an android.

Which can't be a person because he has no emotions.
 
Personhood is just whatever relation you think holds between you right now and you a minute ago that makes you the same person both times.

Do you think you are the same person as the one who made the dumb joke about being a hubcap a minute ago?

It wasn't a joke.

Your definition of personhood and conscious is a very faulty one.

And a second is like an eternity unto an android.

Which can't be a person because he has no emotions.

How is identifying as a hubcap anything like recognizing you are the same entity right now as you were a minute ago?
 
It wasn't a joke.

Your definition of personhood and conscious is a very faulty one.

And a second is like an eternity unto an android.

Which can't be a person because he has no emotions.

How is identifying as a hubcap anything like recognizing you are the same entity right now as you were a minute ago?

Consciousness based on having emotion.

I think knot.
 
Are you unaware that organ transplants and limb reattachments are regular events in modern medicine? Or do you just not like thought experiments in general?

Neural tissue has problems other tissues don't.

They have been trying to get neural tissues to rejoin in a functional manner in spinal cord injuries for a while.

The work is not going anywhere.
 
Unless there's something logically (not just technologically) impossible about that, it's just something to accept for the sake of argument. It's a thought experiment, so you can replace it with whatever version of events is most palatable to your intuition without changing the outcome.

That's fine. For me they represent the end of the line of reasonable thought, especially the rejoining of severed tissues.

And right there is why you don't know shit, and will never know shit.

That's quite OK - If you are happy with your ignorance, then simply live in ignorance.

But PLEASE will you stop spamming threads here with your insistence that everyone else must remain as ignorant as you desire to be?

We get it. You think we shouldn't think about these things because you are incapable of understanding them. Please take it as read that we have anticipated and understood your objection, and are going to continue to ignore it.

You have presented a sound and reasonable argument for why you should not participate in this thread. You have NOT presented a sound or reasonable argument for the rest of us not to participate in this thread - no matter how much you want the two to be synonymous.
 
So if I said I identified myself as the hubcap of a semi truck that would be personhood?

AN interesting notion that a hubcap can be a person.

Personhood is just whatever relation you think holds between you right now and you a minute ago that makes you the same person both times.

Do you think you are the same person as the one who made the dumb joke about being a hubcap a minute ago?

Are you the same person that went to sleep yesterday?
If you are cloned by a teleportation device that didnt destroy the original. What happens then with personhood?

Isnt "personhood" just an abstract property we use to relate to other people?
 
Personhood is just whatever relation you think holds between you right now and you a minute ago that makes you the same person both times.

Do you think you are the same person as the one who made the dumb joke about being a hubcap a minute ago?

It wasn't a joke.

Your definition of personhood and conscious is a very faulty one.

And a second is like an eternity unto an android.

Which can't be a person because he has no emotions.
That is not the difference between "what it is like being a human" and that its not like anything to be an android..
Android can have emotions. That is just a problem of representing moods.
 
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