A New Conservative Party

[Cheerful Charlie]

https://www.rawstory.com/gop-disarray-2650344528/

...
On CNN Saturday, former Rep. Charlie Dent (R-PA), a Trump-skeptic conservative who endorsed President Joe Biden, said that Republicans in his circle are debating forming an entirely new conservative party and abandoning the GOP to the far right.

"What are Republican leaders telling you about the trajectory of the party?" asked anchor Fredricka Whitfield.
"It's not good right now. I think everybody understands that," said Dent. "In fact, just yesterday I participated in a forum or a summit where we talked about the future of the party, should there be a new party or a new faction. A new faction within the party or one that operates independently of the party?
....


Oh, please, please, please split!

 

[Jarhyn]

https://www.rawstory.com/gop-disarray-2650344528/

...
On CNN Saturday, former Rep. Charlie Dent (R-PA), a Trump-skeptic conservative who endorsed President Joe Biden, said that Republicans in his circle are debating forming an entirely new conservative party and abandoning the GOP to the far right.

"What are Republican leaders telling you about the trajectory of the party?" asked anchor Fredricka Whitfield.
"It's not good right now. I think everybody understands that," said Dent. "In fact, just yesterday I participated in a forum or a summit where we talked about the future of the party, should there be a new party or a new faction. A new faction within the party or one that operates independently of the party?
....


Oh, please, please, please split!

You know, if they do, they're probably going to drive a push for some non-FPTP system, which I would personally wholely endorse. If they can manage to get that in common with the progressive wing of the democratic party, I think they will find success. It would end the two party system and give them continuing access to power.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

There are rumors Trump has started a third party, the Patriot Party. Snopes reports this is false. Though some grifters have set up a Patriot Party site to sell Patriot Party merchandise. Other grifters are accepting donations for the party.

 

[Ford]

I've been watching the new season of The Expanse on Amazon.

Right now, these "reasonable" members of the Republican Party seem to be akin to the Belters like Naomi and Drummer. The leader of this radical faction has taken over, launched some asteroids at the Inners, and the few sane people left among them are trying to figure out if they're going to throw their lot in with Marco and burn it all down, or fight for something less insane.

 

[Gospel]

The "new conservative party" will never be able to separate itself from the insurrection and our space force that detected a celestial Jewish laser. Can't say all in at the poker table and then change your mind when you realize your hand is shit.

 

[ideologyhunter]

If they can't flip either the House or Senate in '22 they will have a grueling need to change -- but they will then face a more pronounced internal schism, too. If they do flip the Senate, they'll be in comfortable territory again and not much will change, I think. As wiser people than me have said, this aint a party anymore, it's a conspiracy. Or virus, considering the locals I meet who are incurably infected.

 

[Jarhyn]

If they can't flip either the House or Senate in '22 they will have a grueling need to change -- but they will then face a more pronounced internal schism, too. If they do flip the Senate, they'll be in comfortable territory again and not much will change, I think. As wiser people than me have said, this aint a party anymore, it's a conspiracy. Or virus, considering the locals I meet who are incurably affected.

Whole I touched on this on another thread, I don't think it is a virus so much as a population vulnerable to an open exploit that has been leveraged time and again for years: if you can get access to someone's belief structure via "authority", you can put just about whatever you want in there. So what they have done is made an explicit handle for that authority, revoked access rights for anyone else, and then set up a structure which benefits the people in that authoritarian position.

The problem for them is that an outsider got access, and then fucked all their painstaking work right up.

Now they have to live with the consequences of leaving their back-door in place long enough for someone else to get in.

This whole matter strikes me as an attempt to cleave off administrative access of the outsider by designating him a not-authority without having to close the exploit.

I'm not sure how successful they will be but if they CAN successfully firewall off the outsider access, it will be worth losing some of the network. They probably figure they can make inroads later, maybe with terse alliances with the more conservative Dems.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

There are rumors Trump has started a third party, the Patriot Party. Snopes reports this is false. Though some grifters have set up a Patriot Party site to sell Patriot Party merchandise. Other grifters are accepting donations for the party.

Trump doesn't start anything except trouble.
Someone else will do the work of starting a third party and then Trump will lease them his name.

 

[Rhea]

I don't think it is a virus so much as a population vulnerable to an open exploit that has been leveraged time and again for years: if you can get access to someone's belief structure via "authority", you can put just about whatever you want in there. So what they have done is made an explicit handle for that authority, revoked access rights for anyone else, and then set up a structure which benefits the people in that authoritarian position.

The problem for them is that an outsider got access, and then fucked all their painstaking work right up.

Now they have to live with the consequences of leaving their back-door in place long enough for someone else to get in.

This whole matter strikes me as an attempt to cleave off administrative access of the outsider by designating him a not-authority without having to close the exploit.

I'm not sure how successful they will be but if they CAN successfully firewall off the outsider access, it will be worth losing some of the network. They probably figure they can make inroads later, maybe with terse alliances with the more conservative Dems.

I think this is a very astute analysis.

 

[Jarhyn]

I don't think it is a virus so much as a population vulnerable to an open exploit that has been leveraged time and again for years: if you can get access to someone's belief structure via "authority", you can put just about whatever you want in there. So what they have done is made an explicit handle for that authority, revoked access rights for anyone else, and then set up a structure which benefits the people in that authoritarian position.

The problem for them is that an outsider got access, and then fucked all their painstaking work right up.

Now they have to live with the consequences of leaving their back-door in place long enough for someone else to get in.

This whole matter strikes me as an attempt to cleave off administrative access of the outsider by designating him a not-authority without having to close the exploit.

I'm not sure how successful they will be but if they CAN successfully firewall off the outsider access, it will be worth losing some of the network. They probably figure they can make inroads later, maybe with terse alliances with the more conservative Dems.

I think this is a very astute analysis.

I guess the biggest problem here is that they aren't fucking learning from it. Like, we have had this discussion so many times:

There is no such thing as a secure backdoor!

And when that backdoor is something as significant as the belief structure of at least a third of the population of an entire nation, that's pretty fucked up.

But how do you close a security hole when everyone who cares is locked right out?

 

[prideandfall]

Oh, please, please, please split!

yes, and then the Dems should also split.

and then those splits should probably split.

having 2 parties run one of the geographically largest (and biodiverse) countries on the planet is so beyond fucking retarded it defies description.
there should be a coalition of at least 4-6 parties, and replace 'president' with 'coalition head' or something.

 

[Jarhyn]

Oh, please, please, please split!

yes, and then the Dems should also split.

and then those splits should probably split.

having 2 parties run one of the geographically largest (and biodiverse) countries on the planet is so beyond fucking retarded it defies description.
there should be a coalition of at least 4-6 parties, and replace 'president' with 'coalition head' or something.

THAT can't happen in a first past the post system. It is a system that will naturally always generate two parties, and splitting is spoiling.

 

[Patooka]

Oh, please, please, please split!

yes, and then the Dems should also split.

and then those splits should probably split.

having 2 parties run one of the geographically largest (and biodiverse) countries on the planet is so beyond fucking retarded it defies description.
there should be a coalition of at least 4-6 parties, and replace 'president' with 'coalition head' or something.

THAT can't happen in a first past the post system. It is a system that will naturally always generate two parties, and splitting is spoiling.

Possible, but difficult. 3rd parties can exist in a first past the post if they start local, get name recognition then expand. And we're talking at least a decade of work without any measurable progress. Which I don't have a problem with if one's motive when creating a third party is to provide a legitimate alternative on election day. That type of shit shouldn't really happen overnight.

 

[Jarhyn]

THAT can't happen in a first past the post system. It is a system that will naturally always generate two parties, and splitting is spoiling.

Possible, but difficult. 3rd parties can exist in a first past the post if they start local, get name recognition then expand. And we're talking at least a decade of work without any measurable progress. Which I don't have a problem with if one's motive when creating a third party is to provide a legitimate alternative on election day. That type of shit shouldn't really happen overnight.

Well, it can and should happen overnight(ish), assuming the political will is to enact proportional representation, ranked choice voting, approval voting, or any other kind of schema that doesn't suck ass like FPTP.

The republican party needs to fix their outsider problem NOW, because they only stand to lose more of their grip as the barn door is well and truly open now.

 

[WAB]

Oh, please, please, please split!

yes, and then the Dems should also split.

and then those splits should probably split.

having 2 parties run one of the geographically largest (and biodiverse) countries on the planet is so beyond fucking retarded it defies description.
there should be a coalition of at least 4-6 parties, and replace 'president' with 'coalition head' or something.

Seconded.

 

[ideologyhunter]

To replace the President with a 'coalition head' would require a Constitutional amendment. Maybe several -- who knows how that would reconfigure the assignment of powers. If you think this country is crazy at election time, just figure how nuts it would be to find a wording that would satisfy anyone. Also, we're so partisan that a coalition executive branch (if that's what 'coalition head' implies) would be a bunch of divas pulling out handfuls of each other's hair, shrieking for mic time at press conferences, and most likely shooting each other at Prayer Breakfasts. Picture Donald Trump in a coalition anything.

 

[J842P]

Oh, please, please, please split!

yes, and then the Dems should also split.

and then those splits should probably split.

having 2 parties run one of the geographically largest (and biodiverse) countries on the planet is so beyond fucking retarded it defies description.
there should be a coalition of at least 4-6 parties, and replace 'president' with 'coalition head' or something.

THAT can't happen in a first past the post system. It is a system that will naturally always generate two parties, and splitting is spoiling.

Yeah, and are parties are basically just coalitions anyway.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Oh, please, please, please split!

yes, and then the Dems should also split.

and then those splits should probably split.

having 2 parties run one of the geographically largest (and biodiverse) countries on the planet is so beyond fucking retarded it defies description.
there should be a coalition of at least 4-6 parties, and replace 'president' with 'coalition head' or something.

I think that we're in a very dangerous time. There are a large group of Americans, maybe around 60% of conservatives who seeked and continue to seek to overturn the election and the constitution. Anyone who thinks that this movement is over after the impeachment is naïve in my view. And any attempt to split the left in any way emboldens and empowers this movement.

 

[ronburgundy]

THAT can't happen in a first past the post system. It is a system that will naturally always generate two parties, and splitting is spoiling.

Possible, but difficult. 3rd parties can exist in a first past the post if they start local, get name recognition then expand. And we're talking at least a decade of work without any measurable progress. Which I don't have a problem with if one's motive when creating a third party is to provide a legitimate alternative on election day. That type of shit shouldn't really happen overnight.

A third party could win, but very quickly things will realign, new allegiances will be formed to create 2 parties. The nature of the voting system guarantees it, b/c coming in 2nd gets you nothing more than last place gets, so whoever can form the largest alliance wins.

 

[ronburgundy]

Is there a bigger oxymoron than "new conservative"? It basically means "the new thing that is inherently opposed to change and new things".

Reminds me of exquisite "The New Originals" scene in Spinal Tap.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jblhuMxEHw[/YOUTUBE]


More seriously, the contradiction speaks to the point others have made that there really is nothing new about the Trump phenomenon. It follows directly from the inherent authoritarian nature of conservatism and what the GOP have been deliberately cultivating for over 50 years. They old guard just lost control over it and allowed a wild card to let the racist, science-denying, anti-democratic theoCAT out of the bag for everyone to see.