A spectre is haunting Europe ...

[fromderinside]

The result present what is an expected result. Notice the loosening of austerity measures by Euro bank bank, the decoupling of Swiss frank from Euro, the weakening of the euro and talk of similar actions by such as Germany which is beginning to feel some pain by the trend of EU toward deflation.

My guess is there will be a less stringent offer proffered by EU creditors and the Greeks will stay with the EU and the euro. Like they say there is no free lunch and that goes for everybody.

When will these hard currency leftover decision makers come to their senses and realize one can't get income from an unemployed and asset-less population. Its not about the strength of the monetary system its about the strength of the money making population which includes, ohmygosh, the working class.

Oh look. I just discovered America.

 

[Perspicuo]

A spectre is a ghost. To be afraid of shadows on the wall is childish.

You really do not know your history, do you?

So, panic? History's lesson is to go out and call changes, "spectres"? So a lefty government is akin to Hannibal crossing the alps?

I think if history has shown us anything, is research.

The Coalition of the Radical Left[11] (Greek: Συνασπισμός Ριζοσπαστικής Αριστεράς, Synaspismós Rizospastikís Aristerás), known colloquially by its acronym SYRIZA (Greek: ΣΥΡΙΖΑ, pronounced [ˈsiɾiza]), is a left-wing political party in Greece, originally founded as a coalition of left-wing and radical left parties.

Ok. More, please.

The coalition originally comprised a broad array of groups (thirteen in total) and independent politicians, including democratic socialists, left-wing populist and green left groups, as well as Maoist, Trotskyist, eurocommunist but also eurosceptic components. Additionally, despite the secular ideology, many members are Christian who, like their fellow atheistic members, are anticlerical[citation needed] and oppose privileges of the state-sponsored Greek Orthodox Church

Not bad! Go on...

Its parliamentary leader is Alexis Tsipras, formerly president of Synaspismós

Ok, so let's see what Synaspismós is...

Συνασπισμός = "Coalition of Left, of Movements and Ecology", according to Wikipedia. Sounds great, but what does it mean?

• Left Unity (democratic socialist, supporting Alexis Tsipras), 50,63% in the last congress[citation needed]
• Left Current (communist, eurosceptic), 29,83% in the last congress[citation needed]
• Renewing Wing (Eurocommunist; most of its members left Synaspismos and founded Democratic Left), 17,23% in the last congress[citation needed]
• Red-Green Network (eco-socialist, communist), participated with the Left Unity list in the last congress[citation needed]
• Initiative for the Left Recomposition (communist, eurosceptic), 1,16% in the last congress[citation needed]

That's actually a nice ingredients list. The vast majority of tendencies within Alexis Tsipras' party are democratic. So, is this what a "spectre" looks like?

 

[Bomb#20]

Greece should leave the EuroZone; it didn't belong there in the first place. Tying Greece to the economies of Northern Europe was a mismatch, a highly risky gamble, and it ought to be encouraged to go.

Bingo. It's good that the left wing won. Austerity is a disaster -- it's a lot like trying to undo inflation by going back onto the gold standard at the pre-inflation exchange rate. Now they'll try something different, which will inevitably be a disaster too. But when they come out on the other side, they'll be off the Euro, nobody will lend them hard currency, nobody but a Greek will be poor enough to be willing to work for drachmas, the left will be blamed, and Greece will finally be ready to try to do what it should have done 70 years ago: raise its productivity to bring it in line with the consumption level it aspires to.

 

[Jayjay]

I think a more likely scenario is that the already generous debt will be negotiated to irrelevance by reducing interest and increasing payment schedule, and in exchange Greece will finally try to carry out the structural reforms that it was supposed to do in the first place.

 

[ZiprHead]

Yes, let's let people die because money is more important.

"For want of the price of tea and a slice, the old man died." Pink Floyd - Us and Them

You mean let others suffer because money for greeks is more important?

I regularly contribute to OXFAM http://www.oxfamamerica.org/?gclid=CJm4zp-8ssMCFeLm7Aodol8AEQ and have sent contributions to Goats For The Old Goat http://goatsfortheoldgoat.com/ and I'm not suffering. Your hyperboly in defense of inhumanity is telling.

 

[ksen]

I think a more likely scenario is that the already generous debt will be negotiated to irrelevance by reducing interest and increasing payment schedule, and in exchange Greece will finally try to carry out the structural reforms that it was supposed to do in the first place.

This is probably a good argument as to why countries should keep control of their own currencies so they can inflate debt away.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I think a more likely scenario is that the already generous debt will be negotiated to irrelevance by reducing interest and increasing payment schedule, and in exchange Greece will finally try to carry out the structural reforms that it was supposed to do in the first place.

This is probably a good argument as to why countries should keep control of their own currencies so they can inflate debt away.

And this is probably a good argument as to why countries shouldn't use fiat currency in the first place.

 

[Barbarian]

So, is this what a "spectre" looks like?

It was a reference to the first sentence of the Communist Manifesto, "Ein Gespenst geht um in Europa".

 

[dismal]

I think a more likely scenario is that the already generous debt will be negotiated to irrelevance by reducing interest and increasing payment schedule, and in exchange Greece will finally try to carry out the structural reforms that it was supposed to do in the first place.

This is probably a good argument as to why countries should keep control of their own currencies so they can inflate debt away.

Not a big problem if they could keep their debt-to-GDP around 60% like they are supposed to.

And it's not like the money printing binge to inflate your debt away is painless.

 

[ksen]

No, it's not painless but it'll probably enable them to get back on a better footing than if they have to get Germany's blessing to do anything.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

This is probably a good argument as to why countries should keep control of their own currencies so they can inflate debt away.

And this is probably a good argument as to why countries shouldn't use fiat currency in the first place.

Fiat currency isn't the problem. All currencies are essentially fiat.

 

[dismal]

No, it's not painless but it'll probably enable them to get back on a better footing than if they have to get Germany's blessing to do anything.

The problem is less that they need Germany's blessing and more that they need Germany's money.

Which they wouldn't need quite so much if they had kept debt-to-GDP reasonable.

 

[Perspicuo]

So, is this what a "spectre" looks like?

It was a reference to the first sentence of the Communist Manifesto, "Ein Gespenst geht um in Europa".

Ah. Ok. Thanks.

 

[Horatio Parker]

No, it's not painless but it'll probably enable them to get back on a better footing than if they have to get Germany's blessing to do anything.

The problem is less that they need Germany's blessing and more that they need Germany's money.

Which they wouldn't need quite so much if they had kept debt-to-GDP reasonable.

Germany wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want trade surpluses without providing financing to their partners. Surpluses require deficits elsewhere.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Trade Surplusses / Deficits aren't the same thing as Government Budget Surplusses / Deficits. Germany being good at selling to the Greeks doesn't make Germany responsible for the irresponsible acts of Greek politicians.,

 

[Horatio Parker]

Trade Surplusses / Deficits aren't the same thing as Government Budget Surplusses / Deficits. Germany being good at selling to the Greeks doesn't make Germany responsible for the irresponsible acts of Greek politicians.,

So you are for pulling the plug on Greece?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Nice non-reply you wrote there.

 

[ksen]

Trade Surplusses / Deficits aren't the same thing as Government Budget Surplusses / Deficits. Germany being good at selling to the Greeks doesn't make Germany responsible for the irresponsible acts of Greek politicians.,

Germany running trade surpluses means that all the euros are flowing into germany leaving fewer euros for the rest of the eurozone to run their own economies on. Eventually that will lead to a problem. And in Greece that problem is happening now and if it continues other countries will start having the same problems.

This is what happens when you don't have your own currency.

 

[dismal]

Trade Surplusses / Deficits aren't the same thing as Government Budget Surplusses / Deficits. Germany being good at selling to the Greeks doesn't make Germany responsible for the irresponsible acts of Greek politicians.,

So you are for pulling the plug on Greece?

"Pulling the plug" meaning what? Letting them function as a responsible, independent nation?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Trade Surplusses / Deficits aren't the same thing as Government Budget Surplusses / Deficits. Germany being good at selling to the Greeks doesn't make Germany responsible for the irresponsible acts of Greek politicians.,

Germany running trade surpluses means that all the euros are flowing into germany leaving fewer euros for the rest of the eurozone to run their own economies on. Eventually that will lead to a problem. And in Greece that problem is happening now and if it continues other countries will start having the same problems.

This is what happens when you don't have your own currency.

Ah, so you embrace Mercantilism as an economic policy.