A Strong Rebuke To Those Calling For Northam To Resign

[James Madison]

Northam and I are, undoubtedly, on separate sides of the political seesaw. However, I’m concerned with the ostensibly pervasive sentiment that mistakes characterized as poor taste, poor exercise of judgment, racially insensitive but not necessarily racist or motivated by racial animus, committed more than two decades ago, as a young man, are worthy of having to resign from public office or that such demands are sensible.

It’s as if suddenly, we have a society inundated with multitudes of Maximilien de Robespierre’s, quick to demand the political guillotine for long past transgressions that can be reasonably construed as “minor.”

Law professor Volokh summed it up best:

But the focus should be on his current or at least recent behavior, not his behavior at age 25 now that he is 60.

More broadly, consider what standard we're trying to set for the future. If it's "people who are lying today about their bad behavior from 35 years ago shouldn't be in high office," that may be sensible. If it's "people who committed serious crimes 35 years ago, for which they weren't punished, shouldn't be in high office," that may be sensible. (Again, I don't believe that Justice Kavanaugh was guilty on those counts, but that goes to the particular facts related to those accusations, and not the general principle of what should have been done if the accusations were accurate.)

But if it's "people who said or did offensive things 35 years ago shouldn't be in high office," or even "people who expressed racist / sexist / anti-gay / anti-Semitic / etc. opinions 35 years ago shouldn't be in high office," that's a very different thing. It's tarring someone forever for minor misconduct (again, I note that major misconduct would be a different matter), without considering whether he may have developed better judgment and better views from age 25 to age 60. It's rejecting the possibility that people actually get wiser as they get older -- that they grow up -- that they improve their judgments, their beliefs, and their conduct.

https://reason.com/volokh/2019/02/02/the-northam-controversy-the-kavanaugh-co





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Worldtraveller]

This hurts to say, but I agree.

I also want to point out that there is a stark difference, IMO, in how people handle themselves later, when these past actions are pointed out. For instance, I don't think Franken should have resigned because he owned up to what he had done. It's mostly not wanting to appear as hypocrites (which the GOP seems to not have a problem with) that makes the dems so loudly demand resignations like this.

Contrast it to Kavenaugh, who still denies and gets angry about past behavior, or most other GOP operatives who deny until they can't, then scream witch hunt.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I disagree. He should go. This wasn't him as some 13 year old kid who was trying to look good for the older boys in high school, he was a 25 year old adult who not only made a conscious choice to dress up in black face and/or KKK costumes, but was impressed enough with his activities to include a photo of it on his yearbook page as one of his top memories of his time there. It's over the line and adults should be held accountable for adult actions. His nickname in university was, after all, "Coonman", and his fatuous claims that he didn't know why people called him that fall pretty flat.

Even if it was the case that people should get over it, from a political point of view, they won't. This now defines his political career, regardless of whether or not it's fair that it should do so. There's nothing this guy adds to the Democratic Party which wouldn't be served equally well by his Lieutenant Governor and his remaining in office actively harms any goals or initiatives that he's in favour of. The dude just needs to wander off to go fuck himself.

 

[untermensche]

Once elected he should be judged by what he does in office.

The will of the people and all that. Even if it was not a totally autonomous voter choice minus these pictures.

The pictures can be considered in any future election.

 

[poster]

I'd go by how he behaved himself in a political sense since he's been running for office and his ethics as a campaigner. I'm not going to bother looking but has Northam ever used smear against any of his opponents? Has he stretched truth or lies to gain an advantage to obtain an office? If so, he deserves what he's being subject to. The problem is, of course, what politician these days is that clean?

Aside: Franken's sin wasn't that he pretended to touch boobs, but that he felt free to ridicule a sleeping female. That anyone would take advantage of a private moment like that even in fun is despicable adult behavior. He wasn't a kid when he did that.

 

[dismal]

Live by the witch hunt, die by the witch hunt.

 

[thebeave]

I disagree. He should go. This wasn't him as some 13 year old kid who was trying to look good for the older boys in high school, he was a 25 year old adult who not only made a conscious choice to dress up in black face and/or KKK costumes, but was impressed enough with his activities to include a photo of it on his yearbook page as one of his top memories of his time there. It's over the line and adults should be held accountable for adult actions. His nickname in university was, after all, "Coonman", and his fatuous claims that he didn't know why people called him that fall pretty flat.

Even if it was the case that people should get over it, from a political point of view, they won't. This now defines his political career, regardless of whether or not it's fair that it should do so. There's nothing this guy adds to the Democratic Party which wouldn't be served equally well by his Lieutenant Governor and his remaining in office actively harms any goals or initiatives that he's in favour of. The dude just needs to wander off to go fuck himself.

Well said, but this kind of attitude can bite good people in the ass later in life. Right now, gay marraige is mostly widely accepted (or at least tolerated) by liberals and conservatives alike. And acceptance is likely to continue to grow. But keep in mind, Barack Obama (and Hillary Clinton and many others) is on record as saying he was against it during his first run for President. Decades from now, his videoed stance on that is going to look really bigoted, particularly among those younger people who haven't even been born yet or lived through the pre gay marraige transition era. Yes, he changed his mind, but that will not be seen as good enough for some. Will we see young people destroying statues of Obama in the year 2050, or renaming schools that have taken on his name? I hope we don't.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I disagree. He should go. This wasn't him as some 13 year old kid who was trying to look good for the older boys in high school, he was a 25 year old adult who not only made a conscious choice to dress up in black face and/or KKK costumes, but was impressed enough with his activities to include a photo of it on his yearbook page as one of his top memories of his time there. It's over the line and adults should be held accountable for adult actions. His nickname in university was, after all, "Coonman", and his fatuous claims that he didn't know why people called him that fall pretty flat.

Even if it was the case that people should get over it, from a political point of view, they won't. This now defines his political career, regardless of whether or not it's fair that it should do so. There's nothing this guy adds to the Democratic Party which wouldn't be served equally well by his Lieutenant Governor and his remaining in office actively harms any goals or initiatives that he's in favour of. The dude just needs to wander off to go fuck himself.

Well said, but this kind of attitude can bite good people in the ass later in life. Right now, gay marraige is mostly widely accepted (or at least tolerated) by liberals and conservatives alike. And acceptance is likely to continue to grow. But keep in mind, Barack Obama (and Hillary Clinton and many others) is on record as saying he was against it during his first run for President. Decades from now, his videoed stance on that is going to look really bigoted, particularly among those younger people who haven't even been born yet or lived through the pre gay marraige transition era. Yes, he changed his mind, but that will not be seen as good enough for some. Will we see young people destroying statues of Obama in the year 2050, or renaming schools that have taken on his name? I hope we don't.

There's a big difference between being against gay marriage and going to a party dressed up as someone who beat gay people to death and then posting a photo of that in your yearbook. Northam is the latter.

Additionally, if Obama was asked about his changing stance on the issue and he said that he had never been against gay marriage and his past statements had been taken out of context and just blatantly lied about it, then it would be appropriate to hold this against him. Northam is also currently doing this.

 

[poster]

I disagree. He should go. This wasn't him as some 13 year old kid who was trying to look good for the older boys in high school, he was a 25 year old adult who not only made a conscious choice to dress up in black face and/or KKK costumes, but was impressed enough with his activities to include a photo of it on his yearbook page as one of his top memories of his time there. It's over the line and adults should be held accountable for adult actions. His nickname in university was, after all, "Coonman", and his fatuous claims that he didn't know why people called him that fall pretty flat.

Even if it was the case that people should get over it, from a political point of view, they won't. This now defines his political career, regardless of whether or not it's fair that it should do so. There's nothing this guy adds to the Democratic Party which wouldn't be served equally well by his Lieutenant Governor and his remaining in office actively harms any goals or initiatives that he's in favour of. The dude just needs to wander off to go fuck himself.

Well said, but this kind of attitude can bite good people in the ass later in life. Right now, gay marraige is mostly widely accepted (or at least tolerated) by liberals and conservatives alike. And acceptance is likely to continue to grow. But keep in mind, Barack Obama (and Hillary Clinton and many others) is on record as saying he was against it during his first run for President. Decades from now, his videoed stance on that is going to look really bigoted, particularly among those younger people who haven't even been born yet or lived through the pre gay marraige transition era. Yes, he changed his mind, but that will not be seen as good enough for some. Will we see young people destroying statues of Obama in the year 2050, or renaming schools that have taken on his name? I hope we don't.

Me too! I hope Obama will already be completely discredited way before then for being a war monger and neoliberal corporate ass-sucker.

ETA: Before anyone accuses me of racism, my hopes are the same for both Bushes and Clintons.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Well said, but this kind of attitude can bite good people in the ass later in life.

On the other hand, if the Left is not going to call out racism among ourselves, then how can we call out far more damaging racism on the Right? It will be dismissed as partisanship rather than actual concerns for racial insensitivity.

As Tom says, right or wrong, this is how his career is going to be seen from now on. AND how the left deals with it will be how the Left is seen from now on.

 

[laughing dog]

If Northam came out with some statement like "I was a complete jackass back then. But I am not the same person now" and point to clear examples of his change, I'd say he should not resign.

But he is not taking that route. He is claiming it is not him in that picture. Which may be true, but that brings the question as to why that picture is in his page in the yearbook, and did he have any say in the picture choices.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I had a friend who at the age of fourteen got caught shoplifting a package of cigars. For that incident and that incident alone he was nicknamed Stogie. Plenty of reasons a person is tagged with a nickname. A single incident is one of them.
What troubles me is this was 1984, not 1954. Okay, it was Virginia, not Southern California but it's still a bonehead thing to do. He should wear it now for lying about it and only for lying about it. He didn't get that on "his yearbook page" for nothing.

Oh well. Good thing at eighteen he didn't get caught having sex with his seventeen year old girlfriend. Nowadays, he'd wear that for life. And this crazy crap is codified.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Live by the witch hunt, die by the witch hunt.

Or "Stupid is as stupid does."

What he did was quite stupid, he didn't do it as a middle-schooler. If he doesn't resign I think the political cost in terms of public perception is much greater than if he resigns. So I think he should go. If he doesn't go then there is a clear double standard imho.

 

[ronburgundy]

Well said, but this kind of attitude can bite good people in the ass later in life.

On the other hand, if the Left is not going to call out racism among ourselves, then how can we call out far more damaging racism on the Right? It will be dismissed as partisanship rather than actual concerns for racial insensitivity.

As Tom says, right or wrong, this is how his career is going to be seen from now on. AND how the left deals with it will be how the Left is seen from now on.

Although forcing him to resign is not the only way that the left or the Dems can "call out" the racism of his past actions. His action can be called out as racist, without inferring that he is currently the type of person who should not hold office or be able to support the goals of the Democratic party. Being principled and consistent does not consistently ignoring context and treating every act with any level of racism identically, regardless of context. And the important context is not just the past context where the act occurred but the context of who that person is and everything else we know about who they are now. What has Northam said and done in relation to racism and racial injustice over the last 30 years? If he had spend his time in office denying racial injustice by the police, or supporting efforts to preserve pro-slavery symbols on government land (aka confederate flags and statues of slavery-defending traitors like Lee), then there would be a context that supports those acts of racism being rooted in a white supremacist ideology that he continues to hold. Then, every decent person should demand his immediate resignation.

At least, these are the contextual factors that every individual person should consider before deciding how they feel about him and what they think the response should be.

OTOH, what the Democrats as a party should do is not entirely the same. As a party, their obligation is not to any office holder but to the public who support them and favor their platform and goals over that of the GOP. If those interests are damaged by Northam staying in office, especially as a Democrat, then the Dems are obligated to ask him to resign. And his lack of resignation giving cover for current acts of racism by the GOP or other Dems is part of that potential damage that should be considered. In fact, Northam himself is morally obligated to resign if he thinks staying in office will harm the platform and agenda he claims to support by being a Democrat. And if he refuses to resign despite such likely damage, then that would show that he cares more about his personal power than the public welfare and that is itself a reason for the party and the voters to rebuke him.

So, it could be argued that long and recent history of racists and white supremacists holding office and other positions of government power that they used to harm blacks has created a context where blacks cannot be reasonably expected to just "get over" such overt racism and think that a mere passage of a few decades makes it irrelevant. Thus, Northam is no longer capable of being trusted by a large % of the Democratic base that elected him and generally support the Democratic party. In which case, the ethical thing for him to do is to resign, and his failure to do so is further evidence of his lack of ethics and regard for black voters, and thus even more reason for the Dems and the voters to further pressure him to resign.

 

[James Madison]

I disagree. He should go. This wasn't him as some 13 year old kid who was trying to look good for the older boys in high school, he was a 25 year old adult who not only made a conscious choice to dress up in black face and/or KKK costumes, but was impressed enough with his activities to include a photo of it on his yearbook page as one of his top memories of his time there. It's over the line and adults should be held accountable for adult actions. His nickname in university was, after all, "Coonman", and his fatuous claims that he didn't know why people called him that fall pretty flat.

Even if it was the case that people should get over it, from a political point of view, they won't. This now defines his political career, regardless of whether or not it's fair that it should do so. There's nothing this guy adds to the Democratic Party which wouldn't be served equally well by his Lieutenant Governor and his remaining in office actively harms any goals or initiatives that he's in favour of. The dude just needs to wander off to go fuck himself.

wasn't him as some 13 year old kid who was trying to look good for the older boys in high school, he was a 25 year old adult.

The fact he was an adult when he made a poor, racially insensitive decision, is not detrimental to the opposing point of view. Adults make mistakes.

It's over the line

Indeed, the behavior was wrong, but not worthy of resignation, for reasons previously stated. People make mistakes. Adults make mistakes. There needs to be sufficient room to allow people to evolve into better people, and when they do, not hold them accountable for those prior transgressions of this kind.

 

[James Madison]

Let's be clear. There is not any evidence Northam was racist at the time, or his photo was the result of racial animus. His conduct was certainly racial insensitivity and he did not exercise the best judgment in his actions.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Indeed, the behavior was wrong, but not worthy of resignation, for reasons previously stated. People make mistakes. Adults make mistakes. There needs to be sufficient room to allow people to evolve into better people, and when they do, not hold them accountable for those prior transgressions of this kind.

That's a fine principle for an adult, but a different standard exists for politicians. If this was Bob Northam who lived down the block from me, I'd agree that this wouldn't be worth giving a shit about. He is, however, a prominent member of a political party which is basing a decent portion of its platform on pointing out the racism of the opposing party, so a different standard applies to him. It undercuts every single argument every Democrat makes about the racist policies of the GOP if those arguments are rebutted by pointing out the Dem governor who thought it was cool to play KKK dress up. There's no scenario where he's not now a liability. Whether that's fair or unfair is kind of tough shit for him. If he didn't like finding himself in that sort of scenario, he was free to not get into politics.

Even if it was the case that this was just a mistake, his blatant lies trying to absolve himself of responsibility for it make him now nothing more than a pathetic fool. He could have honourably stepped and made the point that what the Party stands for is more important than his own career and given himself a prominent role in talking about just the sort of things that you're bringing up. Now, there's nothing left for him except whining for a bit before resigning in disgrace and not being welcomed anywhere anymore because he was an annoying dipshit about it.

 

[starwater]

I agree with Tom, Northam's response was very wishy washy. First it was him, then it wasn't him and he never saw the yearbook before Then he did do the moonwalk in black face. Wrong. Own up to your failings and apologize. And why didin't this come out during the campaign???

 

[Treedbear]

If he doesn't resign over this he should be impeached for the pathetic charade he's putting on which insults the intelligence of Virginia's voters. BTW who's ever in the klan outfit is too short to be him. Obviously he's the one in black face. It appears the one in the hood is about the same height as his wife.

 

[Derec]

I disagree. He should go. This wasn't him as some 13 year old kid who was trying to look good for the older boys in high school, he was a 25 year old adult who not only made a conscious choice to dress up in black face and/or KKK costumes, but was impressed enough with his activities to include a photo of it on his yearbook page as one of his top memories of his time there.

Difficult to tell whether this was really him, but let's assume it was.
Northam is 59 years old, so this happened 34 years ago. Should people really lose their careers over some stupid prank they pulled more than three decades ago?
Also note the double standard. Keith Ellison has been celebrated by the Democrats as the "first Muslim congressman" and his past has been swept under the rug.
Rep. Keith Ellison faces renewed scrutiny over past ties to Nation of Islam, defense of anti-Semitic figures
I would say that writing articles supporting racist and antisemitic Nation of Islam is far more serious than wearing an insensitive costume. Yet, Ellison (who is deputy head of DNC and Minnesota Attorney General) gets a pass because of his race and religion.

It's over the line and adults should be held accountable for adult actions.

So why only him? Why not Keith Ellison? Why not Ilhan Omar for her antisemitic tweets?

There's nothing this guy adds to the Democratic Party which wouldn't be served equally well by his Lieutenant Governor

The Lieutenant Governor has the advantage of having a politically correct skin color. Therefore, being accused of sexual assault is not as big a deal as wearing face paint 34 years ago ...

Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax of Virginia Denounces Sexual Assault Allegation as a ‘Smear’
I think Democrats should take this at least as seriously as the accusations against Kavenaugh, don't you think? For one, they are much more recent, and he was in law school, not high school, in 2004.

and his remaining in office actively harms any goals or initiatives that he's in favour of. The dude just needs to wander off to go fuck himself.

With all these witch hunts, who can remain? It's getting way out of hand.

And you are Canadian. Didn't your PM Islam Socks once elbow a female MP in the boobs?
I guess he should resign too ...