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A thing can not be logical or illogical

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ontological_realist

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Logic is applicable to thoughts, statements, propositions and theories etc. but not to things. It has no sense to say that chairs are logical but tables are illogical, or to say that planet Mars is logical but Earth is not logical. But it has sense to say that theory A is logical and theory B is not.

To say that physical world is logical or to say that physical world is illogical are both nonsensical statements.

People who say that quantum theory has proved that the world is illogical are talking nonsense because the world can not be logical or illogical. Only quantum theory can be logical or illogical.

What do you think?
 
ontological_realist said:
Logic is applicable to thoughts, statements, propositions and theories etc. but not to things. It has no sense to say that chairs are logical but tables are illogical...
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People who think illogical thoughts are illogical people. People are things. Therefore...
 
ontological_realist said:
Logic is applicable to thoughts, statements, propositions and theories etc. but not to things. It has no sense to say that chairs are logical but tables are illogical, or to say that planet Mars is logical but Earth is not logical. But it has sense to say that theory A is logical and theory B is not.

To say that physical world is logical or to say that physical world is illogical are both nonsensical statements.

People who say that quantum theory has proved that the world is illogical are talking nonsense because the world can not be logical or illogical. Only quantum theory can be logical or illogical.

What do you think?
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It's never a good idea to impose literalism upon the metaphoric. Most metaphors are nonsensical.

"I knew I was late, so I leapt into my car, hit the gas and flew down the road." In absolute truth, I did none of those things. I sat down in my car, pressed the accelerator pedal and drove at a high rate of speed.
 
Defining something as 'logical' or 'illogical' begs context and a subject.

So I agree, an object cannot be illogical or logical, but a subject or group of subjects can.
 
rousseau said:
Defining something as 'logical' or 'illogical' begs context and a subject.

So I agree, an object cannot be illogical or logical, but a subject or group of subjects can.
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Wowl So something designed by humans who everyone knows can be illogical can't design and build something illogical?



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a3ce372f1a8f9afdd2e4b193a143d9e6.jpg
 
Okay, I'm calling a time out until someone defines logic, in ten words or less.
 
Every once in awhile, something that appears to not make sense is just shorthand for something that does.
 
Yeah, there doesn't seem to be meaning in physicalism. The statement, 1 + 1 = 2 if and only if 1 + 1 = 3 would be just a structure in the universe with nothing else. The universe would just a 4 dimensional structure; what is there is there and it's all static, eternal and true in its form.

But then there's mind-body duality. I like to think that there is a mind that has a somewhat free and creative perspective and even intervention on the universe. The mind seems to map the universe and then rebuild it to its own liking. This feels right from an observer's point of view like anything else feels right. But I could never prove it using anything in the universe that is outside of me.

Although, there is a way, I think. If they could simplify my consciousness down to a relatively simple quantum mechanical system that would have a certain probability for me choosing A or B, then I would consciously try to contradict the probabilities in order to prove my free will. The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if they could create such an experiment in the next 50 years.
 
ryan said:
...The statement, 1 + 1 = 2 if and only if 1 + 1 = 3....
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Is this logic or observation?

No matter how hard you try those two potatoes never become three.

There really is no such thing as "logic", some free floating entity out there some place.

There are human constructions, and logic is the word we apply when the rules of those constructions are followed.

The formal logic of philosophy and mathematics.

When you follow the preconceived rules outlined within these constructions we call that being "logical".

So if your conclusions are forced to follow from your premise or premises we say that you have a logical construction.

Outside of things like this "logic" has no meaning.

So of course a chair, or a quark can be, but it cannot be logical or illogical.
 
I misread the OP, but I stand by what I said.

My point was that in physicalism, a chair is a structure in the universe and so is my brain that practices logic. The concept of comparing A to B does not make sense in physicalism. How can an object of any kind compare two other objects? The only thing that makes sense is mental world in addition to the physical world.
 
fromderinside said:
rousseau said:
Defining something as 'logical' or 'illogical' begs context and a subject.

So I agree, an object cannot be illogical or logical, but a subject or group of subjects can.
Click to expand...

Wowl So something designed by humans who everyone knows can be illogical can't design and build something illogical?



images
a3ce372f1a8f9afdd2e4b193a143d9e6.jpg
Click to expand...

There is nothing illogical about those chairs. the IDEA of sitting comfortably upon them is.
 
Malintent said:
fromderinside said:
Wowl So something designed by humans who everyone knows can be illogical can't design and build something illogical?



images
a3ce372f1a8f9afdd2e4b193a143d9e6.jpg
Click to expand...

There is nothing illogical about those chairs. the IDEA of sitting comfortably upon them is.
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A chair is something used, or designed by sane people to be used, for reasonably comfortable sitting, typically also providing support for the back, and usually standing on four legs. So none of these things is a chair. The red thing is designed to look like a chair, not to be used as a chair. Not by anyone sane anyway.

The other thing is of course not a chair. It's meant to look like a glass cabinet to most people but some may occasionally mistake it for a chair.
EB
 
ontological_realist said:
Logic is applicable to thoughts, statements, propositions and theories etc. but not to things. It has no sense to say that chairs are logical but tables are illogical, or to say that planet Mars is logical but Earth is not logical. But it has sense to say that theory A is logical and theory B is not.

To say that physical world is logical or to say that physical world is illogical are both nonsensical statements.

People who say that quantum theory has proved that the world is illogical are talking nonsense because the world can not be logical or illogical. Only quantum theory can be logical or illogical.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
There's an extended meaning of the usual notion of logic as the way something works so things may have a certain logic to them: the logic of a lock, the logic of a computer etc.

There's also the logic of things like collective action, American politics, scientific discovery etc.

There's a logic to something if you can understand how it works. So, in effect, it applies also to people, i.e. if you can understand how they reason.

However, it all comes down to whether their behaviour is predictable, which is to say whether given known premises, you can deduct what they will do. So, in effect, the logic is entirely yours, or that of the observer. To say that your neighbour is illogical is just to say that his reasoning doesn't comply with your logic. The interesting thing would to find out if he follows any logic at all. But humans are inconstant so rarely obey any unique set of rules. To be a logical being is to be able to apply logic strictly if need be, not necessarily to apply logic all the time we have to think about something.


And of course computers could teach you some logic. Human beings have limitations. The logic of all human reasoning is very, very basic. Computers can be made to compute logical formulae well in excess of anybody's capacity.
EB
 
Bronzeage said:
Okay, I'm calling a time out until someone defines logic, in ten words or less.
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The mechanisms of good reasoning, and principles inferred from them.
EB
 
ontological_realist said:
Logic is applicable to thoughts, statements, propositions and theories etc. but not to things. It has no sense to say that chairs are logical but tables are illogical, or to say that planet Mars is logical but Earth is not logical. But it has sense to say that theory A is logical and theory B is not.

To say that physical world is logical or to say that physical world is illogical are both nonsensical statements.

People who say that quantum theory has proved that the world is illogical are talking nonsense because the world can not be logical or illogical. Only quantum theory can be logical or illogical.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

So you are basically arguing that a half finished sentence is half a sentence.
"a thing............"

Yes, I agree. Syntax is helpful.
 
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