About Time -- Mueller appointed Special Counsel

[Warpoet]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/17/politics/special-counsel-robert-mueller/index.html

Washington (CNN) — The Justice Department on Wednesday appointed former FBI Director Robert Mueller as special counsel to oversee the federal investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election, including potential collusion between President Donald Trump's campaign associates and Russian officials.

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein appointed Mueller to the position in a letter obtained by CNN. Attorney General Jeff Sessions previously recused himself from any involvement in the Russia investigation due to his role as a prominent campaign adviser and surrogate.

This should have happened months ago, rather than relying on the partisan incompetence and stupidity of Congressional investigative committees. But I guess we've become so desensitized that only the series of White House fuckups we've seen this week can even get us this far. Mueller seems to be as good a pick as we'll get - he has a solid reputation in D.C. and took the Bush admin to the mat over its illegal surveillance programs. And he has close ties to Comey, so hopefully won't be treating the WH with kid gloves. But who knows how long it'll take before anything actually comes of this.

 

[repoman]

Does Mueller have a certain amount of time to do this job and a guarantee for this not to be closed down by the DOJ?

Can the DOJ create a special counsel that it cannot cancel?

I don't know how stuff like this works...

 

[none]

I heard the investigation is going to be secret

 

[bilby]

I heard the investigation is going to be secret

Who told you that?

 

[none]

Can't remember if I read it or off the t.v

 

[Warpoet]

Does Mueller have a certain amount of time to do this job and a guarantee for this not to be closed down by the DOJ?

Can the DOJ create a special counsel that it cannot cancel?

I don't know how stuff like this works...

A good summary:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/us/politics/special-counsel-in-russia-investigation-raises-stakes-for-trump.html

DOJ technically has oversight over Mueller, but he has very broad authorities and doesn't report to DOJ unless called upon to, in which case DOJ has to notify Congress first. After Watergate, where Nixon fired a special prosecutor, Congress made it possible to appoint an independent prosecutor totally free of DOJ or executive oversight, but both parties soured on the idea after being subjected to it, so it's not possible anymore.

So this could still technically be shut down by the DOJ, which of course can be heavily pressured by Trump. But that would be the most clear-cut autocratic move yet and put us unequivocally into Watergate territory. I don't think even Trump is that stupid, but once Mueller starts picking up scents leading to the administration I wouldn't put it past him. And then we've got a shitshow on our hands with no historical precedent to refer to.

 

[southernhybrid]

Since that idiot Sessions has recused himself, and Rosenstein is likely very pissed off at Trump for setting him up regarding the Comey firing, I doubt he's going to interfere with the investigation. Mueller has an excellent reputation with both parties and he just quit his day job so he could concentrate on this investigation. This at least gives me a little hope.

 

[Horatio Parker]

His law firm represents Kushner, Ivanka, and Manafort, so you know it's a good one.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

His law firm represents Kushner, Ivanka, and Manafort, so you know it's a good one.

Wouldn't that be conflict of interest?

 

[Horatio Parker]

His law firm represents Kushner, Ivanka, and Manafort, so you know it's a good one.

Wouldn't that be conflict of interest?

How so?

Kidding - I'm snarking. Kinda. He has not done work for those clients and has cut his ties to the firm, according to reports. Still, I can't help but think the Trumpies are hoping for a back door conduit.

 

[SimpleDon]

Does Mueller have a certain amount of time to do this job and a guarantee for this not to be closed down by the DOJ?

Can the DOJ create a special counsel that it cannot cancel?

I don't know how stuff like this works...

A good summary:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/us/politics/special-counsel-in-russia-investigation-raises-stakes-for-trump.html

DOJ technically has oversight over Mueller, but he has very broad authorities and doesn't report to DOJ unless called upon to, in which case DOJ has to notify Congress first. After Watergate, where Nixon fired a special prosecutor, Congress made it possible to appoint an independent prosecutor totally free of DOJ or executive oversight, but both parties soured on the idea after being subjected to it, so it's not possible anymore.

So this could still technically be shut down by the DOJ, which of course can be heavily pressured by Trump. But that would be the most clear-cut autocratic move yet and put us unequivocally into Watergate territory. I don't think even Trump is that stupid, but once Mueller starts picking up scents leading to the administration I wouldn't put it past him. And then we've got a shitshow on our hands with no historical precedent to refer to.

The grounds on which the DoJ could fire him are pretty restricted. Something like he must be shown to be conducting an investigation far outside of the standards set by any investigation in the DoJ's history or personal corruption, taking bribes or insider trading.

It is important to note that without being told, Mueller quit his rather lucrative law practice and disassociated himself from any possible conflict of interest, to a much greater degree than Trump did or for that matter than any of Trump's cabinet did.

Mueller and Comey seem to be boy scouts, motivated by what is best for the nation, not by what is best for themselves. Something that is distressingly absent in this administration and in the leadership in Congress.

Mueller is still a Marine.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wouldn't that be conflict of interest?

How so?

Kidding - I'm snarking. Kinda. He has not done work for those clients and has cut his ties to the firm, according to reports. Still, I can't help but think the Trumpies are hoping for a back door conduit.

What, just because Trump gets anal from Putin you think all Trumpies want some now?

 

[beero1000]

A good summary:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/us/politics/special-counsel-in-russia-investigation-raises-stakes-for-trump.html

DOJ technically has oversight over Mueller, but he has very broad authorities and doesn't report to DOJ unless called upon to, in which case DOJ has to notify Congress first. After Watergate, where Nixon fired a special prosecutor, Congress made it possible to appoint an independent prosecutor totally free of DOJ or executive oversight, but both parties soured on the idea after being subjected to it, so it's not possible anymore.

So this could still technically be shut down by the DOJ, which of course can be heavily pressured by Trump. But that would be the most clear-cut autocratic move yet and put us unequivocally into Watergate territory. I don't think even Trump is that stupid, but once Mueller starts picking up scents leading to the administration I wouldn't put it past him. And then we've got a shitshow on our hands with no historical precedent to refer to.

The grounds on which the DoJ could fire him are pretty restricted. Something like he must be shown to conducting an investigation far outside of the standards set by any investigation in the DoJ's history or personal corruption, taking bribes or insider trading.

It is important to note that without being told, Mueller quit his rather lucrative law practice and disassociated himself from any possible conflict of interest, to a much greater degree than Trump did or for that matter than any of Trump's cabinet did.

Mueller and Comey seem to be boy scouts, motivated by what is best for the nation, not by what is best for themselves. Something that is distressingly absent in this administration and in the leadership in Congress.

Mueller is still a Marine.

It was Mueller and Comey who threatened to resign when Bush tried an end-run around the DOJ. They were willing to stand up to power for their principles. Let's see what comes of this.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A good summary:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/17/us/politics/special-counsel-in-russia-investigation-raises-stakes-for-trump.html

DOJ technically has oversight over Mueller, but he has very broad authorities and doesn't report to DOJ unless called upon to, in which case DOJ has to notify Congress first. After Watergate, where Nixon fired a special prosecutor, Congress made it possible to appoint an independent prosecutor totally free of DOJ or executive oversight, but both parties soured on the idea after being subjected to it, so it's not possible anymore.

So this could still technically be shut down by the DOJ, which of course can be heavily pressured by Trump. But that would be the most clear-cut autocratic move yet and put us unequivocally into Watergate territory. I don't think even Trump is that stupid, but once Mueller starts picking up scents leading to the administration I wouldn't put it past him. And then we've got a shitshow on our hands with no historical precedent to refer to.

The grounds on which the DoJ could fire him are pretty restricted. Something like he must be shown to be conducting an investigation far outside of the standards set by any investigation in the DoJ's history or personal corruption, taking bribes or insider trading.

It is important to note that without being told, Mueller quit his rather lucrative law practice and disassociated himself from any possible conflict of interest, to a much greater degree than Trump did or for that matter than any of Trump's cabinet did.

Mueller and Comey seem to be boy scouts, motivated by what is best for the nation, not by what is best for themselves. Something that is distressingly absent in this administration and in the leadership in Congress.

Mueller is still a Marine.

Yeah, this whole Mueller running the investigation has been the rare bright spot of this Presidency.

 

[Artemus]

We need to have pool on how soon the Trump defenders will start crying that Mueller is biased because both he and Comey were FBI directors. (Haven't seen it yet, but we all know it's going to happen as soon as something negative about Trump leaks out from the investigation.)

ETA: Heh. Seems our friends at Fox News are already setting to use this: Mueller, Comey have had long, close relationship.

ETA again: A comment says "This Mueller thing sounds like collusion with the Democrats!!!" Close the pool, I won. You all owe me $20.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

We need to have pool on how soon the Trump defenders will start crying that Mueller is biased because both he and Comey were FBI directors. (Haven't seen it yet, but we all know it's going to happen as soon as something negative about Trump leaks out from the investigation.)

ETA: Heh. Seems our friends at Fox News are already setting to use this: Mueller, Comey have had long, close relationship.

ETA again: A comment says "This Mueller thing sounds like collusion with the Democrats!!!" Close the pool, I won. You all owe me $20.

On one web board, a person was very suspicious that Comey was writing memos like that back in February and thinks the Democrats are possibly behind it. Trump supporters are partisan nut cases.

 

[Horatio Parker]

How so?

Kidding - I'm snarking. Kinda. He has not done work for those clients and has cut his ties to the firm, according to reports. Still, I can't help but think the Trumpies are hoping for a back door conduit.

What, just because Trump gets anal from Putin you think all Trumpies want some now?

Sure. Why not?

IIRC Trump established relations to the mob through his lawyer, Roy Cohn, who counted among his clients Paul Castellano and Fat Tony Salerno.

 

[Treedbear]

What, just because Trump gets anal from Putin you think all Trumpies want some now?

Sure. Why not?

IIRC Trump established relations to the mob through his lawyer, Roy Cohn, who counted among his clients Paul Castellano and Fat Tony Salerno.

As well as Joe McCarthy.

The term "McCarthyism", coined in 1950 in reference to McCarthy's practices, was soon applied to similar anti-communist activities. Today, the term is used in reference to what are considered demagogic, reckless, and unsubstantiated accusations, as well as public attacks on the character or patriotism of political opponents.

 

[braces_for_impact]

Yes, this is a good thing. If Trump had any sense, he should be shitting his pants about now. All signs I've seen are really starting to point towards the investigation looking into the money, which is of course where the answers are. The fact that the White House only got a heads up this was happening about 30 minutes before the rest of us is a good sign as well. This is Comey's and Mueller's territory, and Trump and company are all third rate staff members, at best that have no experience in fending off such a thorough investigation. This is going to be interesting. Mueller and Comey do have a long history, and word has it that Mueller is very fond of Comey, (and vice-versa) but thinks Comey's recent actions during the campaign and such were bad choices. So expect better judgement calls on what is made available to the public and congress during the investigation.

This is the downside to being a narcissistic asshole. When Trump fucked with Comey, he ended up picking a fight with a Tyrannosaurus Rex, and all's he's armed with is a blunt stick.

 

[Sarpedon]

And remind me never to fuck with Rosenstein. He's not going to be made into a patsy.