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According to Robert Sapolsky, human free will does not exist

Papergirl will not say who his major influences were. Men Kemph?

Most may not realize Hitler was a global published author at one point. He made money.
Are you making some kind of comparison? This is insane. Many philosophers influenced him, especially Will Durant.
In the USA racist music, radio, records, and publications were big business.
Were?

I don;t t5hnk it is as pervasive as it was. Culture and politics have changed.
If you had read the Introduction, you would know that he did not believe that peace could become a reality after Hitler's reign of terror.

INTRODUCTION​

Who… in his right mind or with knowledge of history, would believe it possible that the 20th century will be the time when all war, crime, and every form of evil or hurt in human relations must come to a permanent end? [Note: This is a reminder that the author lived in the 20th century (1918-1991). Though we are well into the 21st century, this discovery has yet to be given a thorough investigation by our world’s leading scientists.] When first hearing this prophecy, shortly after Hitler had slaughtered 6 million Jews, I laughed with contempt because nothing appeared more ridiculous than such a statement. But after 15 years (8 hours a day) of extensive reading and thinking, my dissatisfaction with a certain theory that had gotten a dogmatic hold on the mind compelled me to spend nine strenuous months in the deepest analysis, and I made a finding that was so difficult to believe it took me two years to thoroughly understand its full significance for all mankind and three additional years to put it into the kind of language others could comprehend. It is the purpose of this book to reveal this finding — a scientific discovery about the nature of man whose life, as a direct consequence of this mathematical revelation, will be completely revolutionized in every way for his benefit, bringing about a transition so utterly amazing that if I were to tell you of all the changes soon to unfold, without demonstrating the cause as to why these must come about, your skepticism would be aroused sufficiently to consider this a work of science fiction, for who would believe it possible that all evil (every bit of hurt that exists in human relations) must decline and fall the very moment this discovery is thoroughly understood. This natural law, which reveals a fantastic mankind system, was hidden so successfully behind a camouflage of ostensible truths that it is no wonder the development of our present age was required to find it. By discovering this well-concealed law and demonstrating its power, a catalyst, so to speak, is introduced into human relations that compels a fantastic change in the direction our nature has been traveling, performing what will be called miracles, though they do not transcend the laws of nature. The same nature that permits the most heinous crimes and all the other evils of human relations is going to veer so sharply in a different direction that all nations on this planet, once the leaders and their subordinates understand the principles involved, will unite in such a way that no more wars will ever again be possible.
 
Oh lordy, that's fucking vile. Seriously, what is it with these cranks and hating the gays?
Are you that dense, or are you pretending to be?
It sounds like a fucking miserable world to live in, or one controlled by Nazi douchebags.

Peacegirl is just another Nazi, I guess. Sad, but predictable?
What the hell are you talking about? This knowledge is the opposite of force.
Like, the world I would build is pretty much the inverse of hers: where people have a wide variety of ways they can choose to be, or the chance to find a newer way still to be, eschewing all the past as is the tendency of some. It would be a world where people to cease caring as much about who are "men" and "women" and let themselves accept the feelings they have for those around them within the bounds of consent.
What does "without the bounds of consent" even mean?
It's a world where people find a place to love the things they live and find joy in those things, we will forever see the improved success that comes from having gay family members.
You and Pood belong together. You are going along with a guy who purposely twisted the author's words for cheap laughter, but you don't seem to care. You just want to be right at all costs.
Yeah @Jarhyn, how can you say he hates gays. That's so unfair. He just wants them to no longer exist. Because their existence is a mistake.

Oh, wait.

Shit.
He hated no one, and you don't get to rewrite history, bilby.
 
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Will Durant? I can see where the author of your book profusely presents himself as great historical mover and shaker with a revolutionary idea.

While Durant's work was well received by popular audiences, its academic reception was more critical. Classics scholar Moses Finley criticised Durant's The Life of Greece on a number of grounds, including the book's racial essentialism and support for the great man theory of history.[23]

Racial Essential ism

Race is a categorization of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into groups generally viewed as distinct within a given society.[1] The term came into common usage during the 16th century, when it was used to refer to groups of various kinds, including those characterized by close kinship relations.[2] By the 17th century, the term began to refer to physical (phenotypical) traits, and then later to national affiliations. Modern science regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society.[3][4][5] While partly based on physical similarities within groups, race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning.[1][6][7] The concept of race is foundational to racism, the belief that humans can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.

The Great Man theory

The great man theory is an approach to the study of history popularised in the 19th century. According to it, history can be largely explained by the impact of great men, or heroes: highly influential and unique individuals who, due to their natural attributes, such as superior intellect, heroic courage, extraordinary leadership abilities or divine inspiration, have a decisive historical effect. The theory is primarily attributed to the Scottish essayist, historian and philosopher Thomas Carlyle, who gave a series of lectures on heroism in 1840, later published as On Heroes, Hero-Worship, & the Heroic in History, in which he states:

Any ether inferences you want to share?

I did not have to read te entre ble opwrd for wrod to see iot fopr what it ios.

I don;t have to read your book word for word to se it for what it is.

Your chronic response to questions you will not or can not answer is 'you did not read the book'. Then post the book.

Much like Christians do.

If one of your kids or grand kids married a black man or or how would you react?

When one of my aunts dated an Italian a couple of my racist uncles told him there was no way she would marry an Italian. She did and had a good family.

If one of your kids or grad kids had a gay marriage would you support it?
 
Pk, historian. A historian who philosophized..

What are the qualifications for being a philosopher?What constitutes a philosophy? And back to the what is philology thread.
 
Will Durant? I can see where the author of your book profusely presents himself as great historical mover and shaker with a revolutionary idea.

While Durant's work was well received by popular audiences, its academic reception was more critical. Classics scholar Moses Finley criticised Durant's The Life of Greece on a number of grounds, including the book's racial essentialism and support for the great man theory of history.[23]

Racial Essential ism

Race is a categorization of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into groups generally viewed as distinct within a given society.[1] The term came into common usage during the 16th century, when it was used to refer to groups of various kinds, including those characterized by close kinship relations.[2] By the 17th century, the term began to refer to physical (phenotypical) traits, and then later to national affiliations. Modern science regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society.[3][4][5] While partly based on physical similarities within groups, race does not have an inherent physical or biological meaning.[1][6][7] The concept of race is foundational to racism, the belief that humans can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.

The Great Man theory

The great man theory is an approach to the study of history popularised in the 19th century. According to it, history can be largely explained by the impact of great men, or heroes: highly influential and unique individuals who, due to their natural attributes, such as superior intellect, heroic courage, extraordinary leadership abilities or divine inspiration, have a decisive historical effect. The theory is primarily attributed to the Scottish essayist, historian and philosopher Thomas Carlyle, who gave a series of lectures on heroism in 1840, later published as On Heroes, Hero-Worship, & the Heroic in History, in which he states:

Any ether inferences you want to share?
He disagreed with Durant on a lot of issues, which was the catalyst to write his book.
I did not have to read te entre ble opwrd for wrod to see iot fopr what it ios.

I don;t have to read your book word for word to se it for what it is.
You really do need to read it in order to get a full understanding.
Your chronic response to questions you will not or can not answer is 'you did not read the book'. Then post the book.
I cut and pasted the first three chapters. I posted most of it again, starting on post 2,021. I did not paste the actual discovery and I won't because of the backlash.
Much like Christians do.

If one of your kids or grand kids married a black man or or how would you react?

When one of my aunts dated an Italian a couple of my racist uncles told him there was no way she would marry an Italian. She did and had a good family.

If one of your kids or grad kids had a gay marriage would you support it?
This entire book is about nonjudgment. Pood has brainwashed you.
 
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Decline and Fall of All Evil: The Most Important Discovery of Our Times

This was his introduction to Durant.

p. 31 To show you how confused the mind can get when mathematical relations are not perceived, Will Durant, a well-known philosopher of the 20th century, wrote on page 103 in The Mansions of Philosophy, “For even while we talked determinism, we knew it was false; we are men, not machines.” After opening the door to the vestibule of determinism and taking a step inside, he turned back because he could not get past the implications. Now, let us understand why the implications of believing that man’s will is not free turned Durant and many others away. Remember, most people are unaware of the implications of this position; they simply accept as true what has been taught to them by leading authorities. If determinism were true, he reasoned, then man doesn’t have a free choice; consequently, he cannot be blamed for what he does. Faced with this apparent impasse, he asked himself, “How can we not blame and punish people for hurting others? If someone hurts us, we must believe that they didn’t have to, that their will was free, in order to blame and punish them for what they did. And how is it possible to turn the other cheek and not fight back from this intentional hurt to us?” He was trying to say in this sentence that philosophies of free will would never stop returning just as long as our nature commands us to fight back when hurt, an eye for an eye. This is undeniable, and he was one hundred percent correct because this relation could be seen just as easily with direct perception as two plus two equals four, and there was no way that this statement could be beaten down with formulas or reasoning, but this is not what he actually said.

He, as well as many philosophers, helped the cause of free will by unconsciously using syllogistic reasoning, which is logical, though completely fallacious. He accomplished this by setting up an understandable assumption for a major premise: “If there is an almost eternal recurrence of philosophies of freedom, it is because direct perception can never be beaten down with formulas, or sensation with reasoning.” Can you not see how mathematically impossible his observation is? This simple paraphrase will clarify a point: “If there is an almost eternal recurrence of” four equals two plus two, ‘it is because’ two equals one plus one, and one plus one plus one plus one totals four. But when a person perceives certain undeniable relations, is it necessary to make an equation out of four equals two plus two, or out of the fact that once free will is proven untrue, it can no longer exist and its philosophies of freedom return? Using this same syllogistic reasoning, he tried to prove freedom of the will by demonstrating, in the same manner, that determinism could never prove it false. In other words, when a major premise is not obviously true, then fallacious reasoning has to result. The purpose of reasoning is to connect mathematical relations, not to prove the validity of inaccurate perceptions.

Durant begins with the assumption that direct perception (which are words that symbolize what he cannot possibly understand) is superior to reasoning in understanding the truth, which makes a syllogistic equation necessary to prove the validity of an inaccurate perception. Thus, he reasons in his minor premise: “Free will is not a matter of reasoning, like determinism, but is the result of direct perception, therefore…” and here is his fallacious conclusion, “since philosophies of free will employ direct perception, which cannot be beaten down by the reasoning of determinism, the belief in free will must eternally recur.” He knew that free will was a theory, but as long as proof was not necessary when it could be seen with the direct perception of our common sense that it was impossible to turn the other cheek (the corollary thrown up by determinism), he was compelled to write, “Let the determinist honestly envisage the implications of his philosophy.” This indicates that all his reasoning in favor of free will was the result of inferences derived from his inability to accept the implications. Durant is anything but a scientist and an accurate thinker. Since it is absolutely impossible for free will to ever be proven true (I take for granted this is now understood), nothing in this universe can prove determinism an unreality (and in this context it shall only mean the opposite of free will, as death is the opposite of life) simply because this would automatically prove the truth of free will, which is an impossibility. Consequently, the belief in free will and all conceptions regarding it can only remain in existence as a plausible theory just as long as no undeniable evidence is produced in contravention. According to his reasoning he assumes that free will is true because, in his mind, determinism is false, and the reason he thinks determinism is false is because man is not a machine. Then, not realizing how mathematically impossible his next statement is, he claims that philosophies of freedom (free will) eternally recur because reasoning and formulas cannot beat down the obvious truth of direct perception.

Take a look at that last statement very carefully and see if you can’t tell why it is mathematically impossible. If free will were finally proven to be that which is nonexistent (and let’s take for granted that you know this for a fact) and accepted as such by our scientific world at large, would it be possible, according to Durant’s statement, for “philosophies of freedom” to recur anymore? Isn’t it obvious that the recurrence of the belief in free will is a mathematical impossibility once freedom of the will is proven to be a figment of the imagination, or, to phrase it differently, a realistic mirage? Is it humanly possible for the belief that the world is flat to eternally recur when we have mathematical knowledge that it is round? Consequently, the continued return of the belief in free will can only be due to the fact that it is still a logical theory or plausible conception that has never been analyzed properly, allowing the belief and its philosophies to persist. But Durant states that philosophies of freedom eternally recur, not because of the explanation I just gave, an explanation that cannot be denied by anyone anywhere, even by this philosopher himself, provided it is understood, but because direct perception can never be beaten down with formulas, or sensation with reasoning. Isn’t it apparent that such words have no relation to reality whatsoever? If Durant believed direct perception was considered superior to reasoning, is it any wonder he was so confused and his reasoning so fallacious since the word “because,” which denotes the perception of a relation, whether true or false, indicates that he is criticizing reasoning while reasoning. This doesn’t stop a person from saying, “I believe.” “It is my opinion.” “I was taught that man’s will is free,” but it would certainly stop him from trying to defend his position with an argument. One of the most profound insights ever expressed by Socrates was “Know Thyself,” but though he had a suspicion of its significance, it was only an intuitive feeling, not something he could put his finger on. These two words have never been adequately understood by mankind, including psychiatry and psychology, because this observation is the key that unlocks the first door to another door that requires its own key, and where this discovery’s hiding place was finally uncovered.
 
'opening the door to the vestibule of determinism'

The literary style reeks of pretension. Baroque-ish flourish.

Pretension as in Handel's Water Music Written for the king is filled with aristocratic pretension .


'To show you how confused the mind can get when mathematical relations are not perceive;

Indeed. As in the vision nonsense of how the eye works and delayed vision.

'it was only an intuitive feeling,,

The book is subjective intuition.

Invoking Socrates.

Sifting out the distractions, I still don't see anything historically new or profound. In difernt format

Buddhism covers mental confusion and provide methods to find clarity. Enlightenment is seeing tthings as they are.
 
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'opening the door to the vestibule of determinism'

The literary style reeks of pretension. Baroque-ish flourish.

Pretension as in Handel's Water Music Written for the king is filled with aristocratic pretension .
I'm sorry Steve that you have become suspicious because of how my father wrote. He was humble, he didn't flourish his writing other than in a dialogue that was meant to be entertaining to keep interest because of the difficulty of the subject matter.
'To show you how confused the mind can get when mathematical relations are not perceive;

Indeed. As in the vision nonsense of how the eye works and delayed vision.
Whoooooo, you cannot do this. These two discoveries are unrelated so STOP RIGHT NOW.
'it was only an intuitive feeling,,

The book is subjective intuition.

Invoking Socrates.

Sifting out the distractions, I still don't see anything historically new or profound. In difernt format

Buddhism covers mental confusion and provide methods to find clarity. Enlightenment is seeing tthings as they are.
Intuition is not proof. That's all he was saying. I have nothing negative to say about these wonderful philosophies, but that does not negate a new understanding of human nature that is derived from them. I hope you and others keep an open mind. That's all I'm asking.

Every once in a while a revolutionary shift comes along that changes our reality.
 
'opening the door to the vestibule of determinism'

The literary style reeks of pretension. Baroque-ish flourish.

Pretension as in Handel's Water Music Written for the king is filled with aristocratic pretension .
I'm sorry Steve that you have become suspicious because of how my father wrote. He was humble, he didn't flourish his writing other than in a dialogue that was meant to be entertaining to keep interest because of the difficulty of the subject matter.
'To show you how confused the mind can get when mathematical relations are not perceive;

Indeed. As in the vision nonsense of how the eye works and delayed vision.
Whoooooo, you cannot do this. These two discoveries are unrelated so STOP RIGHT NOW.
'it was only an intuitive feeling,,
Read again. It was Socrates’ intuition.

If Durant believed direct perception was considered superior to reasoning, is it any wonder he was so confused and his reasoning so fallacious since the word “because,” which denotes the perception of a relation, whether true or false, indicates that he is criticizing reasoning while reasoning. This doesn’t stop a person from saying, “I believe.” “It is my opinion.” “I was taught that man’s will is free,” but it would certainly stop him from trying to defend his position with an argument. One of the most profound insights ever expressed by Socrates was “Know Thyself,” but though he had a suspicion of its significance, it was only an intuitive feeling, not something he could put his finger on. These two words have never been adequately understood by mankind, including psychiatry and psychology, because this observation is the key that unlocks the first door to another door that requires its own key, and where this discovery’s hiding place was finally uncovered. However, the problem here is so deep and so involved that even those like your philosopher Spinoza, who understood that man’s will is not free, didn’t even come close to the solution, and others like your John Wesley and William James would be willing to bet their lives that will is free. Why do theologians treat this “freedom of the will” as if it were an undeniable reality? And what made it so obvious to Durant that man’s will is free? Durant is now deceased, but over 20 years ago I phoned to tell him I had made a fantastic discovery that was hidden behind the fallacious theory that man’s will is free. He replied, “You must be on the wrong tack, but take what you think you have to Johns Hopkins University for an analysis.” I not only contacted that university but many others to no avail.
The book is subjective intuition.

Invoking Socrates.

Sifting out the distractions, I still don't see anything historically new or profound. In difernt format

Buddhism covers mental confusion and provide methods to find clarity. Enlightenment is seeing tthings as they are.
Intuition is not proof. That's all he was saying. I have nothing negative to say about these wonderful philosophies, but that does not negate a new understanding of human nature that is derived from them. I hope you and others keep an open mind. That's all I'm asking.

Every once in a while a revolutionary shift comes along that changes our reality.
Did you read anything at all before throwing words around?
 
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Durant is now deceased, but over 20 years ago I phoned to tell him I had made a fantastic discovery that was hidden behind the fallacious theory that man’s will is free. He replied, “You must be on the wrong tack, but take what you think you have to Johns Hopkins University for an analysis.” I not only contacted that university but many others to no avail
As is quite common for cranks.
 
Durant is now deceased, but over 20 years ago I phoned to tell him I had made a fantastic discovery that was hidden behind the fallacious theory that man’s will is free. He replied, “You must be on the wrong tack, but take what you think you have to Johns Hopkins University for an analysis.” I not only contacted that university but many others to no avail
As is quite common for cranks.
You are just as ignorant today as you were yesterday! Can’t you do better than that? 🤣
 
Durant is now deceased, but over 20 years ago I phoned to tell him I had made a fantastic discovery that was hidden behind the fallacious theory that man’s will is free. He replied, “You must be on the wrong tack, but take what you think you have to Johns Hopkins University for an analysis.” I not only contacted that university but many others to no avail
As is quite common for cranks.
You are just as ignorant today as you were yesterday! Can’t you do better than that? 🤣

Looking into a mirror?
 
This I believe, by Will Durant.

I find I agree with some of this.

It is apparent that his views on free will and determinism were more nuanced than you or your author seem to think.

As previously noted, I think that after wading through all your author’s elliptical pomposity and verbosity, and his idiosyncratic terminology, his stance on free will and determinism was basically … compatibilist.

As, it seems, was Durant’s.
 
Peacegirl

I calls it like I sees it.

On determinism and free will it is the same old stuff tat been debated for centuries. Yawn.

Of interest to those who specialize in philosophy. As has been shown determinism itself is a wide subject with numerous variations and definitions.

My impression remains he went through a number of sources and then synthesized his book. Dilettantism. Some of it pseudoscience.

Dilettantism refers to
engaging in an art, activity, or subject casually for pleasure, often as a superficial "dabbler," but it can also mean being a devoted amateur or connoisseur, with the connotation shifting from a positive love of arts (original meaning) to a negative, superficial approach (later meaning). It's about shallow interest or superficial involvement, contrasting with deep professional study, though some defend its fun, non-monetary pursuit of interests
 
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