J842P
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Um, why would that make it different?
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Adam Toledo video released
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Um, why would that make it different?
TomC
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The difference between people who are probably innocent and people who are almost certainly armed and dangerous felons seems easy to understand. Are you really having trouble with that?
Tom
J842P
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In the context where the innocent people are people in a war zone where previously innocent people are frequently initiating violent confrontation?
Toni
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No. I don't know if you've been in the military but there is very often an deliberate and concerted effort to dehumanize 'the enemy' because it's really much easier to shoot at someone you don't regard as fully human or innocent.
Sadly, a lot of police departments are being trained the same way: to think that those they are supposed to serve and protect are enemy combatants. Yes, some of that is because of drug trade but a lot of it is good old racism as well as a move to increasingly militarize the police. The thing is, this is a no win/ever higher stakes game with LEOs being more heavily equipped with assault rifles and armored vehicles to stand up to the firepower of the drug dealers. And the very, very human tendency is to use whatever weapons you have, even if it's over-kill (pun not intended but very apt).
It's a vicious cycle and I'm not sure how to end it. Decriminalizing drugs would help de-escalate that part of the war but drug abuse, whether for recreational use or to serve an addiction to prescription pain meds legitimately prescribed for pain take an enormous toll on individuals, families, and society even if you remove the criminal aspects of it. And...there will always be some who want 'better' ie more powerful, illicit drugs for a more stupendous high or whatever it is they are looking for.
As for assuming that Adam Toledo was guilty of felonies--at age 13---I can't even. I just cannot understand how and why some people are willing to excuse any police action (including killing a 12 year old on a playground).
Derec
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I am pretty sure shooting at passing cars is a felony.
Derec
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Mythical?
I already mentioned Ariel Atkins, the #BLM leader in Chicago. Then there is the national #BLM leader Deray McKesson (aka "Vest Boy") who advocated for looting in a Yale lecture a few years ago.
I also already mentioned Jamaal Bowman, the Squad private.
How many more do you want?
Derec
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We went over this ad nauseam.
- There is no evidence that Z is a "racist" or this has anything to do with race
- Trayvon wasn't "stalked". Followed, yes, but not "stalked"
- Trayvon attacked Z and was bashing his head against the sidewalk
- Z suspected Trayvon of casing houses for burglaries. Trayvon was also suspected of stealing jewelry from a house down in Miami.
- He was also dealing drugs (weed and codeine if I remember correctly)
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Derec
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The gang banger who murdered 7 year old Jaslyn Adams arrested.
Man Charged With Murder of 7-Year-Old Fatally Shot in McDonald's Drive-Thru
Man Charged With Murder of 7-Year-Old Fatally Shot in McDonald's Drive-Thru
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The three rules of using deadly force: Means, Motive and Opportunity.
Means: Do they possess a means of killing you or inflicting serious bodily harm?
Motive: Do you have a reasonable reason to believe he intends to use those means against you?
Opportunity: Can they apply those means now or in the very near future?
Consider the Afghanistan case he gave: The carrying of weapons there is common. A soldier has no reason to believe the average armed person intends to shoot him. No motive, can't shoot.
Compare that to this case: Means--he had a gun. Opportunity--he can raise it quickly. Where this greatly differs from Afghanistan is that he has already been observed to commit crimes and then the cop sees the gun coming up. The people on the Afghani street haven't been observed to have any reason to be shooting at the soldiers.
We have multiple crimes:
1) Damaging cars.
2) Discharging a gun where it's not permitted. (In any large city it's virtually certain the law says you can only fire at the range or in self defense.)
3) Resisting arrest. I'm not sure where this crosses into felony territory.
4) Open carry of a firearm.
5) Possession of a firearm without a permit. Looking it up I find Illinois law is reasonably close to how I think gun laws should be handled.
The law is a pain to read, I'm not going to take the time to sort out whether these are felonies. The laws applying to #4 and #5 are mostly felonies but as a first offense I'm not certain he crossed that line.
lpetrich
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With unusual speed, Minn. Supreme Court agrees to hear appeal in Noor case - StarTribune.com
Mohamed Noor is the only cop in Minnesota ever found guilty of murder before Derek Chauvin.
Where are the right-wingers about him?
Mohamed Noor is the only cop in Minnesota ever found guilty of murder before Derek Chauvin.
Where are the right-wingers about him?
laughing dog
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Well, Mr. Noor is a black police officer who killed a white woman who had called the police. Mr. Noor literally shot across the police cruiser to kill her while she was trying to talk to his partner.
Jimmy Higgins
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Didn't he kill a foreign national (an Australian).
Yes. What was interesting at the time was the level of condemnation towards Noor's actions from people who reflexively defend law enforcement.
Jimmy Higgins
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I think it was a bit about how reckless the officer acted. He seemed to panic like a cartoon character.
Toni
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Well, Mohammad Noor is a Somali American. Sure, he’s black, but he came here the right way, seeking American freedom. He’s not one of those black Americans who descended from enslaved Africans brought to the Americas in the hulls of slave ships or those who grew up under and maybe protested Jim Crow laws or for civil rights. That makes Noor a superior kind of black man.
But Justine Damand was a nice white lady—blonde, I think. That is a much better kind of immigrant to be.
Plus she had called the police to report a crime but the important facts are colored by, well, color.
Derec
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That comment wasn't about immigration per se, but about filling diversity quotas.
That said, out immigration policies are very much broken. Somalia has a culture very much incompatible with out western culture and mindlessly letting millions of Somalis in is highly reckless. Same goes for Afghans, Pakistanis etc.
That is not to say that all individuals are not compatible with our culture. See Ayan Hirsi Ali for example. But US let in millions of Somalis with little or no vetting, which is why there are so many "letterbox" women in places with a lot of Somalis and why there are so many Somalis joining Al Shabab and ISIS.
Derec
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Our immigration policies re countries with incompatible cultures like Somalia and Afghanistan have been a complete failure.
There is a Somali enclave in Metro Atlanta, Clarkston, and it looks like Middle East with many women wearing the burqa.
Are you a Somali supremacist, Toni?
It has nothing to do with skin or hair color. Justine Damond was an innocent victim. Noor acted completely wrongly when he shot her for no reason.
That is very different when a criminal is shooting at cars and then runs with a gun. Or when a guy on release for a robbery and warrant for an illegal gun resists arrest. She wasn't even trying to pass a fake $20 bill!
Exactly. Nothing to do with color, but with behavior.
Can't say for Somalis, but all the Afghans and Pakistanis I've interacted with blend in just fine. My Afghan neighbour cooks the best lamb on Australia Day and the Pakistanis I work and have worked with are more fanatical about cricket than Islam - even before Imran Khan became President. Each and every one of them says "mate" more often than I do, and their kids sound more "Westie*" than me by a long shot. I guess my interactions differ slightly than all the darkies you associate with in life, because you wouldn't be making sweeping generalizations with anecdotal incidents from the media now would you?.
*Westie is the accent most people have if they grew up in the Western Suburbs of Sydney. A lot less British sounding and more swallowing of consonants. Kinda like a Brooklyn accent vs a Bronx accent thing.