Adams County [Idaho] rancher shot and killed by deputies

[ksen]

Don't worry guys, the sheriff's department will be ok.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article43045458.html

An officer-involved shooting that left a longtime Adams County rancher dead Sunday has shocked the community and brought a tidal wave of recriminations for the county’s small sheriff’s department.

The Adams County Sheriff’s Office has been bombarded with angry calls and hate mail from people upset by the shooting, which left 62-year-old Jack Yantis dead on U.S. 95 in front of his home north of Council.

Adams County Sheriff Ryan Zollman said people in the office are being called “murderers” and said the calls coming in forced one emergency dispatcher to leave her post Tuesday. “She was so upset,” he said.

Yantis was one of two ranchers summoned Sunday night to a highway car crash that injured a bull; deputies were unsure whose animal it was, Zollman said. The bull was reportedly charging at first responders working to extricate two people from the Subaru station wagon that hit him.

As deputies prepared to kill the bull, Yantis showed up — with a rifle. What transpired to cause Yantis and the two deputies to all fire their weapons is under investigation by Idaho State Police. On Tuesday, ISP said that anyone who was in the area around the time of the shooting should contact them at 208-884-7110.

The community is roiling with speculation, with many using social media sites to swap theories about what happened.

“Some of the comments on there are pretty negative towards what we try to do,” Zollman said. “They say time heals all wounds. This wound will be a festering wound for not weeks, or months, but years or decades.”

The department’s head dispatcher has arranged for a crisis management team to provide support to the Sheriff’s Office.

“We’re all going to get through this,” Zollman said.

 

[Toni]

Tell you what. I will put in more paragraph breaks, when you take a break from your blind ideology and start making arguments with the faintest hint of rational thought.



Not one unsupported supposition. You're entire OP is and absolutist assertion that in incoherent with the evidence. All my statements are merely an assessment of non-definitive probabilities based upon coherence with the current facts, which includes general facts about human behavior, such as that violence between people is far more common when their goals are in conflict rather than in support of each other. Engaging in rational thought prior to reaching the kind of certain conclusion you did in you OP requires considering how alternative possibilities cohere with all relevant information, which includes general facts that inform relative probabilities.

Someone in this thread said it best "Another faith-based conclusion based upon zero supporting facts and the total absence of reasoned thought".

Or willingness to read with attention to details. Blinded by the light, indeed.

A lot more than just random breaks in text are needed to demonstrate a reasoned position.

 

[Toni]

Don't worry guys, the sheriff's department will be ok.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article43045458.html

An officer-involved shooting that left a longtime Adams County rancher dead Sunday has shocked the community and brought a tidal wave of recriminations for the county’s small sheriff’s department.

The Adams County Sheriff’s Office has been bombarded with angry calls and hate mail from people upset by the shooting, which left 62-year-old Jack Yantis dead on U.S. 95 in front of his home north of Council.

Adams County Sheriff Ryan Zollman said people in the office are being called “murderers” and said the calls coming in forced one emergency dispatcher to leave her post Tuesday. “She was so upset,” he said.

Yantis was one of two ranchers summoned Sunday night to a highway car crash that injured a bull; deputies were unsure whose animal it was, Zollman said. The bull was reportedly charging at first responders working to extricate two people from the Subaru station wagon that hit him.

As deputies prepared to kill the bull, Yantis showed up — with a rifle. What transpired to cause Yantis and the two deputies to all fire their weapons is under investigation by Idaho State Police. On Tuesday, ISP said that anyone who was in the area around the time of the shooting should contact them at 208-884-7110.

The community is roiling with speculation, with many using social media sites to swap theories about what happened.

“Some of the comments on there are pretty negative towards what we try to do,” Zollman said. “They say time heals all wounds. This wound will be a festering wound for not weeks, or months, but years or decades.”

The department’s head dispatcher has arranged for a crisis management team to provide support to the Sheriff’s Office.

“We’re all going to get through this,” Zollman said.

I've never lived on a ranch but I grew up in farm country and had a grandfather and an uncle who both raised beef cattle.

A reasoned response for any farm owner with a report of a cow or bull who was hit by a motor vehicle--or who had charged a motor vehicle, is to bring a firearm capable of dispatching the animal quickly and safely.

It was reasonable that Yanis and the other rancher summoned (but who did not show up prior to the shooting???) would bring rifles and be prepared to use them, to ensure safety of others and to put down an injured animal unlikely to be salvageable. The only reason I can comprehend that a rancher would want to salvage that bull is if it were a valuable stud and they wanted to secure semen before dispatching it. Don't laugh: collecting and selling bull semen is business.

It is impossible to know from the news accounts whether all involved attempted to dispatch the bull and Yanis got hit by inadvertent cross fire or whether Yanis wanted to dispatch the bull because his weapon was more likely to do so quickly, safely, and mercifully and the officers were too....stupid to realize what he was intending to do perceived him as a threat who needed to be killed.

Even tough old farmers care about dispatching an injured animal in the safest, most humane manner possible. Most would feel a lot of emotion at having to put down an animal in this fashion. Most would be upset at officers attempting to do a job in a manner that would be less efficient and therefore less safe and less humane. Perhaps Yanis was shouting to the officers to get out of the way so he could get a clear shot and they were too....upset? over wrought themselves? trigger happy? convinced that the world is out to get them and they were being confronted by some survivalist?



I would imagine there would be a lot of community outrage. This should not have happened.


Edited to add: I posted before I read the possible account from someone who was there. I don't understand the motive of the officers in the shooting if this account is anything close to accurate.

 

[Toni]

Without knowing more any full judgement is premature. However, that the rancher showed up with a rifle to confront responders suggests he was ready to shoot anyone who intended to harm his bull. Therefore it is likely he died because of his imminent threat to use of lethal force...and therefore earned it.

Sad...but let the chips fall where they may.

That's exactly my thought, also.

Oh, bullshit.

He came because he was summoned by dispatch because it was his bull. He came with a rifle to dispatch the bull, which was the appropriate and humane thing to do.

I understand that city folk don't have a frigging clue about farm life but for fuck's sake.....(self edit here).

 

[ksen]

Has anyone else noticed that the Subaru that hit the bull was damaged so bad, the passengers couldn't get out of the car, but the bull was still able to charge the rescuers.

Injured animals tend to become very aggressive.

And experienced ranchers typically know how to handle aggressive animals.

- - - Updated - - -

Tell you what. I will put in more paragraph breaks, when you take a break from your blind ideology and start making arguments with the faintest hint of rational thought.

I didn't realize it was irrational to think that encounters like this one don't have to end with dead people.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Injured animals tend to become very aggressive.

And experienced ranchers typically know how to handle aggressive animals.

And that handling often involves shooting them with a rifle.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's exactly my thought, also.

Oh, bullshit.

He came because he was summoned by dispatch because it was his bull. He came with a rifle to dispatch the bull, which was the appropriate and humane thing to do.

I understand that city folk don't have a frigging clue about farm life but for fuck's sake.....(self edit here).

I have no problem with him having a rifle, although it shouldn't have been in hands when he saw cops on scene. I think more happened than that, though.

- - - Updated - - -

Injured animals tend to become very aggressive.

And experienced ranchers typically know how to handle aggressive animals.

Yeah--but not quickly. That was the problem--injured people in the car that the paramedics couldn't get to because of the bull. Saving the bull meant endangering them.

 

[Toni]

Oh, bullshit.

He came because he was summoned by dispatch because it was his bull. He came with a rifle to dispatch the bull, which was the appropriate and humane thing to do.

I understand that city folk don't have a frigging clue about farm life but for fuck's sake.....(self edit here).

I have no problem with him having a rifle, although it shouldn't have been in hands when he saw cops on scene. I think more happened than that, though.

- - - Updated - - -

Injured animals tend to become very aggressive.

And experienced ranchers typically know how to handle aggressive animals.

Yeah--but not quickly. That was the problem--injured people in the car that the paramedics couldn't get to because of the bull. Saving the bull meant endangering them.

There was never any intention to save the bull. Nor any such suggestion, except for the very distant possibility of possibly saving an injured bully to procure semen. Not likely, and by eye witness accounts, not what happened.


These are from facebook posts, so of course, some grains of salt might be needed but appear to be posts of people who were there

Kevin J. Darrah via KBOI 2
November 2 at 1:22pm ·

Good morning everyone! Just to let everyone know, I had front row seats for this shooting! The police officer put 5 slugs into a guys chest, because he was trying to shoot his own cow with a rifle that had been hit by another vehicle. When is the abuse of police officers going to stop? Not to mention, the wife of the guy that was shot and killed, went into cardiac arrest and is currently hospitalized because she had a heart attack. I sat on highway 95 for the better part of 8 hours last night. Absolutely sickening!

Paradis is apparently the nephew of the woman whose husband was killed.

Rowdy Lee Paradis via KTVB
November 2 at 12:14pm ·

Murdered in cold blood by trigger happy rookies gunned down at the end of his own driveway for trying to take care of his own livestock!!!!!! As their own dispatch had asked him to do I how they get the death penalty.

Mark Robinson "This is from a lady whom was there: Susan Gregersen Let me put you folks straight on this. The bull was hit, the cops came, dispatch called Jack to come, they knew it was his bull! One cop shot the bull but didn't kill it, Jack came like dispatch asked of him, with his gun to put the bull down, cops freaked out, and shot Jack 5 times! His wife suffered a major heart attack and was life flighted to Boise! Hope those cops had there all important body cams on!! Prayers please for our community, we are going to need it!"
Like · Reply · 9 · November 2 at 9:18pm

Finally this: from http://gawker.com/idaho-cattle-ranc..._source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Anna G
Chris Thompson
11/03/15 2:00pm

More information, a facebook post by an eyewitness...

Appears to me trigger happy rookies really screwed up.

“Jack, Donna and Rowdy, Donna’s nephew, showed up to take care of their bull. Jack was bent down and a second from shooting the bull when a cop grabbed him from the back and spun him around. He shot Jack in the stomach and the other cop shot him 4 times in the chest. The cops were standing behind Jack.

Donna and Rowdy rushed down to Jack and the cops threw them face down on the ground and had guns to their head. Between what happened to her husband and the rough treatment, she had a massive heart attack. She was life flighted to Boise. She had another last night.

This story came from Jack’s nephew and it was told to him by Rowdy. The sheriff wanted Rowdy to change his account. The bull (becoming aggressive) seems key to the story but it wasn’t even in the account I heard from Jack’s nephew. There was crew trying to get the people out of the car that hit the bull. This sounds like a big coverup to me (the news account). I just can’t understand how those cops could have done that. We seem to get the ex military rambos around here. I’ve heard plenty about these deputies being difficult. I don’t know how Donna is doing. I hate to bother the family. I am pretty close to her and I’m so worried she isn’t going to make it.(This is a post on FB)“

I understand small towns, the reliability of witnesses and 3rd or 4th hand accounts on FB, but it stretches all credulity past any reasonable breaking point to think that Yantis was doing anything other than coming to dispatch his injured and possibly dangerous bull after a car accident.

 

[Nexus]

To our pro-police posters, it doesn't seem very likely that a rancher would go to a accident scene to have a stand off or murder police over one animal. He kills his animals everyday. It may have been critically injured dying anyway. What makes you think he would risk his life and freedom to protect this bull?

 

[fromderinside]

Hey, that region is open range. Its obvious by the structure of the story. We have no idea about the condition of the people in the car.

All the owner was going to do was use the gun to threaten a promise out of the thugs in the car that they pay him off right now for his prized bull. Cops don't like people threatening to kill injured persons in a car anywhere. Still, killing an owner who has rights to payments for his property is pretty important too.

My guess is the cops will be cleared even though the people in the car may have been local land owners too.

Thanks George*.

*^{_{Stolen. Literally stolen}}.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think it's quite obvious that what happened was that the Supreme Court decision allowing gay marriage caused this rancher to fall in love with his bull due to the disintegration of everything that's good and moral in society. When the cops tried to shoot the bull to save the people in the car, the rancher threw himself infront of the bullets in order to try and save his one true love. Then the wife had a heart attack because her family's dark secret was exposed to the world.

Thanks, Obama.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I understand small towns, the reliability of witnesses and 3rd or 4th hand accounts on FB, but it stretches all credulity past any reasonable breaking point to think that Yantis was doing anything other than coming to dispatch his injured and possibly dangerous bull after a car accident.

As you say, not exactly a credible source. Much easier to figure he was trying to dispatch the bull than protect it.

 

[Toni]

I understand small towns, the reliability of witnesses and 3rd or 4th hand accounts on FB, but it stretches all credulity past any reasonable breaking point to think that Yantis was doing anything other than coming to dispatch his injured and possibly dangerous bull after a car accident.

As you say, not exactly a credible source. Much easier to figure he was trying to dispatch the bull than protect it.

That is what any farmer I've ever known would do. And since I was related to half a county full of farmers, I feel fairly confident that Yantis intended to put down the injured and troublesome bull.

What went wrong is hard to understand. Any deputy working in that area should know that a rancher would come to put down an injured animal with a rifle. Especially since that is exactly what dispatch told Yantis to do. So, having a rancher, his wife and nephew pull up in a vehicle with the rancher carrying a rifle should have been expected. I will wager that most of the county drives around with a rifle in their pick up.

My guess is a deputy panicked and shot his Yantis, either in panic or by mistake, but it is hard to understand 5 shots as a mistake. Seems much more like incompetence..

 

[dismal]

My understanding is it's possible to wait for facts to come out before reaching conclusions about what happened.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

My understanding is it's possible to wait for facts to come out before reaching conclusions about what happened.

Do you not like ... get the internet?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

My understanding is it's possible to wait for facts to come out before reaching conclusions about what happened.

I'm with you. And I'm guessing this bull was packing. Pulled his sidearm and the rest is history. Yantis obviously got caught in the crossfire.

 

[dismal]

This picture from an internet message board of man believed to be Yantis's brother's nephew who may have been at the scene:

 

[thebeave]

My understanding is it's possible to wait for facts to come out before reaching conclusions about what happened.

I'm with you. And I'm guessing this bull was packing. Pulled his sidearm and the rest is history. Yantis obviously got caught in the crossfire.

I heard the bull was carrying Skittles.

 

[ksen]

This story has the family's official statement.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/article43654638.html

While Paradis was getting the skid loader, the deputies started shooting at the bull. At least one of them had a semiautomatic rifle, perhaps an AR-15, an adaptation of the military M16.

“They opened up with their pistols and their M16s ... before Jack got there,” Paradis said. “That’s an inhumane deal. ... This is a 2-ton Angus bull that’s pissed off, he’s hurt and psychotic. ... It was blazing down there and it sounded like World War III on this bull, because they got him charging at everyone again.”

Paradis drove the skid loader down the driveway and parked on the highway. The bull was lying on the pavement. Donna Yantis had walked the rifle to her husband. Jack Yantis was standing about 4 feet from the bull, aiming the rifle at the back of the bull’s head. His back was to the two deputies, who were standing in the far lane facing each other as if they were having a conversation.

“I put the (skid loader’s) lights on him and the bull, and he lined up to shoot the bull in the back of head and put him out humanely,” Paradis said.

The rifle’s barrel was about 2 feet from the bull, and Jack Yantis’ finger was on the trigger.

“Everything was going as planned. … I did not notice any conversation at all” between Jack Yantis and the deputies, Paradis said. “Then the one cop turned around and grabbed his shoulder and jerked him backwards.”

The deputy came from behind, spun Yantis around and grabbed the rifle’s scope, Paradis said.

The deputy pushed Yantis. The rifle was still in Yantis’ hands, its barrel pointed at the ground. Yantis was trying to regain his footing.

Paradis said he does not know whether the rifle fired, but he thinks it might have discharged accidentally when the deputy grabbed Yantis and spun him, or when one of the deputy’s bullets pierced Yantis’ hand holding the rifle, hitting the gun and damaging it.

One deputy began shooting at Yantis, then the other deputy started shooting.

Donna Yantis said she and Paradis screamed at the deputies to stop.

Shot in the chest and abdomen, Jack Yantis fell to the ground. Neither deputy went to check on him. Paradis and Donna Yantis started running toward him.

“And then they threatened me and my nephew ... threw us on the middle of Highway 95, searched us and handcuffed us, and wouldn’t let us go take care of Jack,” Donna Yantis said.

 

[Rhea]

That just makes no sense. I don't understand the behavior at all. I wonder what their statement is? Why would they grab Yantis? Don't get it.