African Immigrant Says College Degrees Mostly Useless

[laughing dog]

Everyone's talking about college degrees but the conversation is really about education, as some have said. Maybe we should be discussing whether a high school diploma is important anymore. In Musk's asinine reasoning, no educational degree or diploma is important. Where does that douchebag draw the line?

I would say that the degree or diploma isn't important other than they show the person with one had an opportunity to learn something. The real question is if they took advantage of the opportunity and learned or if they just spent four years partying. I think grade inflation has led to too many schools graduating too many incompetent students.

Because they cannot do arithmetic on demand? Sorry, that is silly standard.

 

[skepticalbip]

Everyone's talking about college degrees but the conversation is really about education, as some have said. Maybe we should be discussing whether a high school diploma is important anymore. In Musk's asinine reasoning, no educational degree or diploma is important. Where does that douchebag draw the line?

I would say that the degree or diploma isn't important other than they show the person with one had an opportunity to learn something. The real question is if they took advantage of the opportunity and learned or if they just spent four years partying. I think grade inflation has led to too many schools graduating too many incompetent students.

Because they cannot do arithmetic on demand? Sorry, that is silly standard.

No it's because we have some college graduates who have to compete with more knowledgeable high school graduates for the only jobs they are qualified to do.

 

[laughing dog]

Because they cannot do arithmetic on demand? Sorry, that is silly standard.

No it's because we have some college graduates who have to compete with more knowledgeable high school graduates for the only jobs they are qualified to do.

That is illogical. First, a college education is not a job training program. Second, you have not shown that there are some college graduates who "have to compete" with "more knowledgeable" high school students nor have you shown what you mean by "jobs they are qualified to do". Third, your example with arithmetic has nothing to do with knowledge (or lack there of) but skill.

 

[skepticalbip]

Because they cannot do arithmetic on demand? Sorry, that is silly standard.

No it's because we have some college graduates who have to compete with more knowledgeable high school graduates for the only jobs they are qualified to do.

That is illogical. First, a college education is not a job training program. Second, you have not shown that there are some college graduates who "have to compete" with "more knowledgeable" high school students nor have you shown what you mean by "jobs they are qualified to do". Third, your example with arithmetic has nothing to do with knowledge (or lack there of) but skill.

Only a quick google search was needed to find that what I have experienced with recent college graduates is widely known to be true. The overwhelming majority are well educated but a growing number are awarded degrees even though they are functionally illiterate and innumerate.

One example here:

https://cnsnews.com/commentary/walter-e-williams/campus-lunacy

The American Council of Trustees and Alumni publishes occasional reports on what college students know.

Nearly 10 percent of the college graduates surveyed thought Judith Sheindlin, TV's "Judge Judy," is a member of the U.S. Supreme Court. Less than 20 percent of the college graduates knew the effect of the Emancipation Proclamation. More than a quarter of the college graduates did not know Franklin D. Roosevelt was president during World War II; one-third did not know he was the president who spearheaded the New Deal. But it is little mystery why so many college students are illiterate, innumerate and resistant to understanding.

First, a college education is not a job training program.

Yes I understand that many believe college is a last chance to party down before being forced out of their home to support themselves by their parents... see above.

 

[laughing dog]

Only a quick google search was needed to find that what I have experienced with recent college graduates is widely known to be true. The overwhelming majority are well educated but a growing number are awarded degrees even though they are functionally illiterate and innumerate.

One example here:

https://cnsnews.com/commentary/walter-e-williams/campus-lunacy

The American Council of Trustees and Alumni publishes occasional reports on what college students know.

Nearly 10 percent of the college graduates surveyed thought Judith Sheindlin, TV's "Judge Judy," is a member of the U.S. Supreme Court. Less than 20 percent of the college graduates knew the effect of the Emancipation Proclamation. More than a quarter of the college graduates did not know Franklin D. Roosevelt was president during World War II; one-third did not know he was the president who spearheaded the New Deal. But it is little mystery why so many college students are illiterate, innumerate and resistant to understanding.

The survey results from a conservative non-profit described in the conservative op-ed in a conservative site, report results from questions about current affairs, civics and history. Basically, most of those facts in the OP-ED should have been learned in k-12. It is not the role of college to engage in remedial education in history or civics.

There is a survey at the ACTA site which is a bit misleading with its language. For example it asks which government action freed slaves in the USA. One of the choices is the Emancipation Act and another is the 13th Amendment: both freed slaves in the USA, yet only one answer is correct.

Yes many believe college is a last chance to party down before being forced out of their home to support themselves by they parents.

"Many" compared to those who went in the 1930s or 1940s or 1950s or 1960s or 1970s or 1980s or 1990s?

 

[skepticalbip]

Yes many believe college is a last chance to party down before being forced out of their home to support themselves by they parents.

"Many" compared to those who went in the 1930s or 1940s or 1950s or 1960s or 1970s or 1980s or 1990s?

There is a big difference in 'partying down' after completing the after class studies and 'partying down' in lieu of completing the after class studies.

 

[ZiprHead]

First, a college education is not a job training program.

I disagree with this. There are many professions, especially in medical fields, that are job training programs. Physical and Occupational Therapy, Laboratory Technologists and Scientists, Respiratory Therapists are just a few examples.

 

[skepticalbip]

First, a college education is not a job training program.

I disagree with this. There are many professions, especially in medical fields, that are job training programs. Physical and Occupational Therapy, Laboratory Technologists and Scientists, Respiratory Therapists are just a few examples.

+ engineering, chemistry, physics, architecture, city planning, geology, aero-space, metallurgy, etc. etc. Essentially, college is a job training program for any career that can not be filled by the average high school graduate.

 

[laughing dog]

Yes many believe college is a last chance to party down before being forced out of their home to support themselves by they parents.

"Many" compared to those who went in the 1930s or 1940s or 1950s or 1960s or 1970s or 1980s or 1990s?

There is a big difference in 'partying down' after completing the after class studies and 'partying down' in lieu of completing the after class studies.

Yes there is. Do you have any data to support your claim?

 

[laughing dog]

First, a college education is not a job training program.

I disagree with this. There are many professions, especially in medical fields, that are job training programs. Physical and Occupational Therapy, Laboratory Technologists and Scientists, Respiratory Therapists are just a few examples.

+ engineering, chemistry, physics, architecture, city planning, geology, aero-space, metallurgy, etc. etc. Essentially, college is a job training program for any career that can not be filled by the average high school graduate.

Nonsense. Physics, chemistry, geology, metallurgy, aero-space and other sciences are not job training. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[laughing dog]

First, a college education is not a job training program.

I disagree with this. There are many professions, especially in medical fields, that are job training programs. Physical and Occupational Therapy, Laboratory Technologists and Scientists, Respiratory Therapists are just a few examples.

There are degrees that are tailored more to a particular profession, but the vast majority of college degrees are not job training.

 

[skepticalbip]

+ engineering, chemistry, physics, architecture, city planning, geology, aero-space, metallurgy, etc. etc. Essentially, college is a job training program for any career that can not be filled by the average high school graduate.

Nonsense. Physics, chemistry, geology, metallurgy, aero-space and other sciences are not job training. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[laughing dog]

+ engineering, chemistry, physics, architecture, city planning, geology, aero-space, metallurgy, etc. etc. Essentially, college is a job training program for any career that can not be filled by the average high school graduate.

Nonsense. Physics, chemistry, geology, metallurgy, aero-space and other sciences are not job training. You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Axulus]

Because someone talks out of their ass and has a lot of money, you believe them based only on anecdote?

Causal effect of education on earnings (using controls, so not just mere correlation) using OLS estimates.

Angrist and Krueger (1991) find estimated effect of between 5%-7% increase in annual earnings for each additional year of completed schooling

Staiger and Stock (1997): 5%-6%

Kane and Rouse (1993): 6%-8%

Card (1995b): 7%

Conneely and Uusitalo (1997): 8%

Maluccio (1997): 6%-7%

Harmon and Walker (1995): 6%

Twin studies:

Ashenfeiter and Rouse: 7%-8%

Rouse (1997): 7%-8%

Miller et al. (1995): 3%-5%

Behrman et al. (1994): 3%-6%

Isacsson (1997): 3%-5%

Another type of estimate, using instrumental variables (IVs), comes up with even higher estimates than these by a couple of percentage points.

After analyzing the accuracy of all these studies, the author that summarizes the findings comes to the following consulsions:

5. Conclusions
Taken as a whole, I believe that the recent literature on the returns to education points to five key conclusions:
1.
Consistent with the summary of the literature from the 1960s and 1970s by Griliches, 1977, Griliches, 1979 the average (or average marginal) return to education in a given population is not much below the estimate that emerges from a simple cross-sectional regression of earnings on education. The “best available” evidence from the latest studies of identical twins suggests a small upward bias (on the order of 10%) in the simple OLS estimates.

2.
Estimates of the return to schooling based on comparisons of brothers or fraternal twins contain some positive ability bias, but less than the corresponding OLS estimates. Ability differences appear to exert relatively less influence on within-family schooling differences than on between-family differences.

3.
IV estimates of the return to education based on family background are systematically higher than corresponding OLS estimates and probably contain a bigger upward ability bias than the OLS estimates.

4.
Returns to education vary across the population with such observable factors as school quality and parental education.

5.
IV estimates of the return to education based on interventions in the school system tend to be 20% or more above the corresponding OLS estimates. While there are several competing explanations for this finding, one plausible hypothesis is that the marginal returns to schooling for certain subgroups of the population – particularly those subgroups whose schooling decisions are most affected by structural innovations in the schooling system – are somewhat higher than the average marginal returns to education in the population as a whole.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1573446399030114

In other words, there does not seem to be much systematic bias or inaccuracies in these estimates.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One example here:

https://cnsnews.com/commentary/walter-e-williams/campus-lunacy

The American Council of Trustees and Alumni publishes occasional reports on what college students know.

Nearly 10 percent of the college graduates surveyed thought Judith Sheindlin, TV's "Judge Judy," is a member of the U.S. Supreme Court. Less than 20 percent of the college graduates knew the effect of the Emancipation Proclamation. More than a quarter of the college graduates did not know Franklin D. Roosevelt was president during World War II; one-third did not know he was the president who spearheaded the New Deal. But it is little mystery why so many college students are illiterate, innumerate and resistant to understanding.

A lot of this is history, it doesn't reflect knowledge that you're likely to use in the real world.

 

[barbos]

First, a college education is not a job training program.

I disagree with this. There are many professions, especially in medical fields, that are job training programs. Physical and Occupational Therapy, Laboratory Technologists and Scientists, Respiratory Therapists are just a few examples.

+ engineering, chemistry, physics, architecture, city planning, geology, aero-space, metallurgy, etc. etc. Essentially, college is a job training program for any career that can not be filled by the average high school graduate.

Well, it's true in a literal sense. But there is a difference between real science and say accounting/business/law or even medicine and computer science. Real Science gives fundamental knowledge which is not subject to much change, whereas the rest can be described as applied science for the most part. Well, Computer science has fair amount of math included but lets be honest, they study programming languages which are popular right now.
Science degrees in general are more universal, require much more critical thinking and really more demanding as far as intelligence concerned, you can take a physicist and make him learn accounting in one week, business in two, programming language in 2 months, reverse is simply not possible in any amount of time.