African Migrants to Italy pass on to other countries.

[Angra Mainyu]

To where?

They have no incentive to tell you where they came from; and even if they do, their country of departure won't accept them back without documentary proof that they are citizens - proof which they are generally smart enough to have destroyed.

And that assumes that their point of departure in Africa is their country of citizenship - which it probably isn't.

"Send them back" only sounds like a good idea if you don't think about it too hard. Actually it is impossible for the authorities to follow that instruction, even if the politicians are stupid enough to issue it.

This is actually all good points.
But what if they make a rule - "Once we know who you are or were you came from we automatically deport you"?
So the only way for them to immigrate would be complete and utter break with anybody in the home country and complete and utter integration into local culture. Europe has had problems with immigrants who don't want to integrate, here is a chance to change that, at least for illegal immigrants. There is a price you pay for illegal immigration.

In addition to knowing their nationality, there is the difficulty of getting another country to accept that that is their nationality. Similarly, if they want to send them back not to their country of origin but to the country they immediately came from, there is the difficulty of getting the country in question to receive them. If they're not its citizens, the country in question might not be willing to accept them.
Those difficulties are not insurmountable, but it might be very costly, and that's aside from their unwillingness to go be sent back. So far, I don't see well-organized resistance to deportation, but if sending them back becomes more common, that might begin to happen.

 

[bilby]

To where?

They have no incentive to tell you where they came from; and even if they do, their country of departure won't accept them back without documentary proof that they are citizens - proof which they are generally smart enough to have destroyed.

And that assumes that their point of departure in Africa is their country of citizenship - which it probably isn't.

"Send them back" only sounds like a good idea if you don't think about it too hard. Actually it is impossible for the authorities to follow that instruction, even if the politicians are stupid enough to issue it.

Destroying all their paperwork is a lot easier than learning a new language. I doubt someone from one country was suddenly was able to learn coastal dialects before shipping off to Europe.

Most locals can spot a foreign accent a mile off. All the country of origin has to do is intern them until they figure it out. If they bitch about the cost, maybe they need to patrol their waters and keep an eye on their criminal illegal element better.

Why would they do that, when they can just refuse to have anything to do with them unless there is proof of citizenship?

Illegal immigrants don't obey the law, but EU nation states have to at least give the appearance that they do. Italy is prevented by law from simply dumping a bunch of undocumented people in Tripoli and saying "They are your problem now", unless they can prove that the individuals in question are Libyans.

 

[whichphilosophy]

There is some indication of Europe taking action against the people smugglers who are behind this migration problem.

http://www.english.rfi.fr/europe/20...ister-valls-opposes-binding-eu-migrant-quotas

Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve announced the plan on Friday with the support of Niger's president Mahamadou Issoufou.

Niger is a key transit country for migrants hoping to reach Libya where smugglers to cross the Mediterranean.

Meanwhile, the European Union this week also firmed up plans to crack down on people smugglers.

On Thursday Germany said it was confident of winning UN Security Council approval for an ambitious EU naval military operation, part of a wider plan to stem the flow of migrants coming from the shores of North Africa.

In an effort to destroy the human traffickers' "business model", the EU wants to be able to identify, intercept and possibly destroy the smugglers' boats in Libyan waters, something that would require a United Nations resolution.

However I doubt somehow this would be implemented in the near future, where in the last paragraph I believe this would cause some casualties.

 

[bilby]

It doesn't actually matter anyway. Apart from the increase in nationalist xenophobia, illegal immigration, overall, does more good than harm.

Undocumented non-citizens can't access much in the way of benefits; and are demonstrably prepared to work hard and take great personal risks for the opportunity to work in a wealthy nation. They are not going to sit watching TV and eating pizza at taxpayer expense. But they do pay taxes, particularly Value Added Taxes, which are levied on the things they buy; and they do jobs that the locals consider to be beneath them.

Draconian solutions to non-problems are just silly.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In order to be payback, you need a guilty party as the target. The vast majority of the people living today in Europe were born after the colonialist actions took place, and hence are not guilty.

And the fact that the colonialists did not become a burden to an existing infrastrucuture. In many cases, the colonialists created the infrastructure and were themselves the higher income class.

Sadly not the situation here.

Observation: I was in Africa in 1982. There was an obvious relationship between colonialism and the standard of living--The longer they were colonial the better off the people were.

 

[whichphilosophy]

And the fact that the colonialists did not become a burden to an existing infrastrucuture. In many cases, the colonialists created the infrastructure and were themselves the higher income class.

Sadly not the situation here.

Observation: I was in Africa in 1982. There was an obvious relationship between colonialism and the standard of living--The longer they were colonial the better off the people were.

I think any system in place of just about all the current African governments would be an improvement. I've met some brilliant persons from Africa but with mass magration comes the brain drain.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Observation: I was in Africa in 1982. There was an obvious relationship between colonialism and the standard of living--The longer they were colonial the better off the people were.

I think any system in place of just about all the current African governments would be an improvement. I've met some brilliant persons from Africa but with mass magration comes the brain drain.

With the exception of Botswana I agree with you.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I think any system in place of just about all the current African governments would be an improvement. I've met some brilliant persons from Africa but with mass magration comes the brain drain.

With the exception of Botswana I agree with you.

I forgot this one. It's regarded as a democracy as well.

Something I didn't know
http://archive.transparency.org/news_room/in_focus/2008/cpi2008/cpi_2008_table

It is the least corrupt country in Africa and of the worlds least corrupt countries stands at number 36

 

[whichphilosophy]

I don't know how true this is, but this would not be surprising but it is happening.
Are there any ISIS cells? As a strategy this would be the best way to send them over.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html
ISIS threatens to send 500,000 migrants to Europe as a 'psychological weapon' in chilling echo of Gaddafi's prophecy that the Mediterranean 'will become a sea of chaos'
Italian press today published claims that ISIS has threatened to release the huge wave of migrants to cause chaos in Europe if they are attacked
And letters from jihadists show plans to hide terrorists among refugees
In 2011, Muammar Gaddafi ominously predicted war would come to Libya
He was deposed in a violent coup and killed in October of the same year
Islamic State executed 21 Egyptian Christians on Libyan beach this week
Crisis in Libya has led to surge in number of migrants heading for Europe

ISIS has threatened to flood Europe with half a million migrants from Libya in a 'psychological' attack against the West, it was claimed today.
Transcripts of telephone intercepts published in Italy claim to provide evidence that ISIS is threatening to send 500,000 migrants simultaneously out to sea in hundreds of boats in a 'psychological weapon' against Europe if there is military intervention against them in Libya.
Many would be at risk of drowning with rescue services unable to cope. But authorities fear that if numbers on this scale arrived, European cities could witness riots.
Separately, the militants hope to cement their control of Libya then cross the Mediterranean disguised as refugees, according to letters seen by Quilliam the anti-terror group, reported by the Telegraph.

Interesting to read.

 

[bilby]

I don't know how true this is, but this would not be surprising but it is happening.
Are there any ISIS cells? As a strategy this would be the best way to send them over.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html
ISIS threatens to send 500,000 migrants to Europe as a 'psychological weapon' in chilling echo of Gaddafi's prophecy that the Mediterranean 'will become a sea of chaos'
Italian press today published claims that ISIS has threatened to release the huge wave of migrants to cause chaos in Europe if they are attacked
And letters from jihadists show plans to hide terrorists among refugees
In 2011, Muammar Gaddafi ominously predicted war would come to Libya
He was deposed in a violent coup and killed in October of the same year
Islamic State executed 21 Egyptian Christians on Libyan beach this week
Crisis in Libya has led to surge in number of migrants heading for Europe

ISIS has threatened to flood Europe with half a million migrants from Libya in a 'psychological' attack against the West, it was claimed today.
Transcripts of telephone intercepts published in Italy claim to provide evidence that ISIS is threatening to send 500,000 migrants simultaneously out to sea in hundreds of boats in a 'psychological weapon' against Europe if there is military intervention against them in Libya.
Many would be at risk of drowning with rescue services unable to cope. But authorities fear that if numbers on this scale arrived, European cities could witness riots.
Separately, the militants hope to cement their control of Libya then cross the Mediterranean disguised as refugees, according to letters seen by Quilliam the anti-terror group, reported by the Telegraph.

Interesting to read.

Only if one has a medical interest in mass paranoid psychosis.

(For bonus points, am I talking about that specific article, or the Daily Mail in general?)

 

[whichphilosophy]

I don't know how true this is, but this would not be surprising but it is happening.
Are there any ISIS cells? As a strategy this would be the best way to send them over.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html
ISIS threatens to send 500,000 migrants to Europe as a 'psychological weapon' in chilling echo of Gaddafi's prophecy that the Mediterranean 'will become a sea of chaos'
Italian press today published claims that ISIS has threatened to release the huge wave of migrants to cause chaos in Europe if they are attacked
And letters from jihadists show plans to hide terrorists among refugees
In 2011, Muammar Gaddafi ominously predicted war would come to Libya
He was deposed in a violent coup and killed in October of the same year
Islamic State executed 21 Egyptian Christians on Libyan beach this week
Crisis in Libya has led to surge in number of migrants heading for Europe

ISIS has threatened to flood Europe with half a million migrants from Libya in a 'psychological' attack against the West, it was claimed today.
Transcripts of telephone intercepts published in Italy claim to provide evidence that ISIS is threatening to send 500,000 migrants simultaneously out to sea in hundreds of boats in a 'psychological weapon' against Europe if there is military intervention against them in Libya.
Many would be at risk of drowning with rescue services unable to cope. But authorities fear that if numbers on this scale arrived, European cities could witness riots.
Separately, the militants hope to cement their control of Libya then cross the Mediterranean disguised as refugees, according to letters seen by Quilliam the anti-terror group, reported by the Telegraph.

Interesting to read.

Only if one has a medical interest in mass paranoid psychosis.

(For bonus points, am I talking about that specific article, or the Daily Mail in general?)

Like I said I don't know how true this (since more evidence is needed).
If you don't regard the Daily Mail as a credible newspaper or reliable, you are most likely right.
At the same time, I would like to see the evidence cited.

Is there not mass psychosis in the Middle East at the moment. Thus we are dealing with unpredictable elements and should take steps to ensure against such infiltration.

Europe only has token borders, so why not exploit them?