All hail Satan

[DrZoidberg]

I read Crowley's book Diary Of A Drug Fiend back in the early 70s, the days of psychedelia.

From what I read of Crowley he was typical of the occult. Wealthy clients for which he provided rituals and an exclusive club. Taboo mysticism.

Hubbard was the next generation. Science mixed with mysticism. Same con job. There is an alleged collaboration between Hubbard and one of the occultists of the early 20th century.

Scientology and Church Of Satan and other occult systems all went through the same kind of evolution into a final form with a following. It is all about creating the feeling of religious exclusivity and belonging. Secret rituals known only to the chosen. I believe Masons actually have secret handshakes and signs.

But if these rituals can change your thinking and behaviour in measurable and positive ways it's not a con job. I know quite a lot of people, including myself who got immersed into Crowley and the occult. It's something that intellectually curious teenagers tend to explore. It was a lot of stuff that happened to me mentally around there. But I was a miserable prick as a teenager. Reading Crowley (and Nietzsche) primed my mind for embracing the mysteries of life. Accepting fate and not feel sorry for myself. When I took acid at 18 it was the boot that kicked me over the edge. My life was in an instant changed forever. I've since been very positive and happy about life. True story.

BTW, when I read Crowley I was always a staunch atheist. I always only saw the magick (that's how they spell it) as metaphor or psychological tool. I think that's normal. Reading Crowley is what intellectual types do, and they tend not to be suckers for woo. There's no problem reading Crowley as an atheist. I didn't think so. I got the impression that Crowley himself understood the difference. It's important to understand the age in which he was living. Spiritualism was the word de jour. That whole movement was rife with actual con artists, and he knew it. If he wanted to get his movement off the ground it was important to align himself with the spiritualists. Use their language. Just clean it up from the worst intellectually offensive ideas. Which I think is what he did.

We're still living in the tail end of the age of scientism, which didn't peak until the 1950'ies (or perhaps later). So that's the language we're most comfortable with. So we got to adjust our reading based on the context IMHO. Just the way I look at it.

Using the Star Wars metaphor, the fork side vs 'the force'. Trump is a bad leader, he uses his skills to manipulate masses for his own glory and power. A 'dark sider' of the force.

JFK motivated people to public service.

Both sides are a con in a general sense.

Hmm.. now you've just made the word meaningless

 

[steve_bank]

steve_bank said

Using the Star Wars metaphor, the fork side vs 'the force'. Trump is a bad leader, he uses his skills to manipulate masses for his own glory and power. A 'dark sider' of the force.

JFK motivated people to public service.

Both sides are a con in a general sense.

So did Hitler and Stalin and Hirohito and Mao and many others.

What kind of people to what kind of "service" does matter.

Pure ignorant nonsense. JFK played to our better selves. Hitler, Stalin played to the ugly side. Not as extreme but that is Trump's tactics.

If you do not see the difference between a JFK or Gandhi and MLK for that matter and the list of demagogues brother you are in serious moral trouble. You need to get yourself a moral compass.

Poor choice of words, by their both being cons I mean the political and motivational skills can be used for good and bad.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Satanism is the hippie guy with an ironic beard of religion. They think they're being all clever and edgy, but really they're just another guy with a beard.

If you want to have a secular organization advocating for various moral tenets, then just have a secular organization which does that. Define yourself by who and what you are, as opposed to tacking on all the religious bullshit and defining yourself by what you are not.

I think they play a very useful role. They're there to challenge the backward, authoritarian, inhumane Christian status quo. Nothing makes a Christian take notice more than Satanists. Plus, secular principles are already instilled in schools. They don't scare zealots as much as Satan Hisownself passing out booklets to elementary school kids.

But that's still defining their organization by what they're in opposition to, not what they're actually for. It's as if the Women's Rights movement called itself the Men Need Go And Fuck Off movement. It would catch men's attention and scare all the incels and the people in the movement could talk about how it's really all about equality for women and not about men needing to go and fuck off, but calling it that would mean that the movement is really lame and dumb, regardless of what it's actually about.

Satanism may be a good and positive secular organization with a lot of value, but all the meaningless quasi-religious trappings make it really lame and dumb, regardless of what it's actually about.

This rather misses the point of calling it a religion. A small part of it is trolling mainstream religions in the US. By calling it a religion, the Satanic Temple get to play in the same waters, so to speak, as the mainstream religions.

If a xian organization has access to a school to hand out flyers, the ST will sue for the same access, and either get it, or show the local religionists and government for the hypocrits they are. The AZ chapter has been instrumental in doing this, particularly with respect to the city council in Tempe having strictly xian prayers before their meetings. The temple is whittling away, one lawsuit at a time, the xian privilege that pervades much of US culture.

They have made some significant strides, too, in spite of some judges rendering clearly biased decisions against them.

 

[steve_bank]

There are Christians who think Mormonism is not religion.

 

[4321lynx]

steve_bank said

Using the Star Wars metaphor, the fork side vs 'the force'. Trump is a bad leader, he uses his skills to manipulate masses for his own glory and power. A 'dark sider' of the force.

JFK motivated people to public service.

Both sides are a con in a general sense.

So did Hitler and Stalin and Hirohito and Mao and many others.

What kind of people to what kind of "service" does matter.

Pure ignorant nonsense. JFK played to our better selves. Hitler, Stalin played to the ugly side. Not as extreme but that is Trump's tactics.

If you do not see the difference between a JFK or Gandhi and MLK for that matter and the list of demagogues brother you are in serious moral trouble. You need to get yourself a moral compass.

Poor choice of words, by their both being cons I mean the political and motivational skills can be used for good and bad.

I'll give you 0/10 for reading comprehension, even allowing for my post not being very clear.

 

[bilby]

Satan doesn't really exist. It's just your dad in a red suit with a fake beard.

 

[DBT]

The OT has Satan playing the role of an associate of God, albeit a bit down the ladder of Power, God as the CEO, the head Honcho, but which of the two has the more callous or vicious personality is hard to tell....

 

[DrZoidberg]

Satan doesn't really exist. It's just your dad in a red suit with a fake beard.

 

[steve_bank]

Well, in Job God and Satan are hanging around like drinking buddies making a bet on wether or not Job's faith can be broken....God lost as I recall.

 

[DrZoidberg]