Alt right free speech advocates threaten to burn down book store

[Underseer]

Isn't it fascinating that conservolibertarians only seem to care about freedom of speech when it's used to defend Nazis fascists alt right free speech advocates identitarians, yet remain silent on things like this? Why do you suppose that is?

 

[Politesse]

Indeed. Similar to their vigorous campaign against "erasing history", which is curiously specific to the situation of taking down confederate statues on public land. (Any other statue, national historical monuments, archaeological sites, entire academic history departments, and history museums, are free to go)

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Indeed. Similar to their vigorous campaign against "erasing history", which is curiously specific to the situation of taking down confederate statues on public land. (Any other statue, national historical monuments, archaeological sites, entire academic history departments, and history museums, are free to go)

I think that case is even worse. The confederate statues often have text that is false, not historical. [See previous threads on topic.]
[/derail]

 

[Mumbles]

Indeed. Similar to their vigorous campaign against "erasing history", which is curiously specific to the situation of taking down confederate statues on public land. (Any other statue, national historical monuments, archaeological sites, entire academic history departments, and history museums, are free to go)

I think that case is even worse. The confederate statues often have text that is false, not historical. [See previous threads on topic.]
[/derail]

Even more than that, books are currently one of the easiest ways to actually learn about history, while statues of the type under discussion (confederate statues are hardly the same as Michelangelo's David) serve to show admiration for the figure in question.

Of course, for people like Dolt 45 who are too pompous and lazy to read books, the confusion is somewhat understandable...

 

[Politesse]

Indeed. Similar to their vigorous campaign against "erasing history", which is curiously specific to the situation of taking down confederate statues on public land. (Any other statue, national historical monuments, archaeological sites, entire academic history departments, and history museums, are free to go)

I think that case is even worse. The confederate statues often have text that is false, not historical. [See previous threads on topic.]
[/derail]

Yes. I had a rather frustrating conversation along those lines just the other day, hence my derailing poor mood on the matter. It was over an "indian chief" statue they're thinking of removing in the City. It was erected in the middle of the genocide years and is little better than a racist caricature, but apparently removing it would be "whitewashing history". Meanwhile our civic museum is open two days a week because that's what their budget allows for.

I try to be allowing for differences of opinion, but some days it seems like the Trumpuenos pick and choose what principles to honor and which to ignore situationally and based on pure emotionalism.

 

[LordKiran]

This is old. And people need to settle down. People say crazy shit all the time without escalating things further. I'm not trying to make excuses for the man, but we shouldn't make mountains out of molehills. It just makes us look silly.

 

[Politesse]

This is old. And people need to settle down. People say crazy shit all the time without escalating things further. I'm not trying to make excuses for the man, but we shouldn't make mountains out of molehills. It just makes us look silly.

Person suggests verbally that threats of violence are bad: "Whoa, that kind of extremism has no place in our society."

Person threatens an act of physical violence against those they disagree with: "People say crazy shit, not to worry, no one ever actually burns books."

***


And I don't know what you mean by "old", Revolution Books has been assaulted dozens of times this year by the same group, and there's no reason whatsoever to imagine that these assaults won't continue to escalate if nothing is done about it.

 

[Underseer]

Indeed. Similar to their vigorous campaign against "erasing history", which is curiously specific to the situation of taking down confederate statues on public land. (Any other statue, national historical monuments, archaeological sites, entire academic history departments, and history museums, are free to go)

That is simply false.

They don't only use these free speech arguments to defend Confederates. They also use these arguments to defend Nazis.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It's probably just a response to all the people who have been killed by collapsing shelves in bookstores:

https://blog.seattlepi.com/bookpatrol/2008/02/25/bookseller-killed-by-falling-books/

They're just defending themselves.

 

[scombrid]

Indeed. Similar to their vigorous campaign against "erasing history", which is curiously specific to the situation of taking down confederate statues on public land. (Any other statue, national historical monuments, archaeological sites, entire academic history departments, and history museums, are free to go)

I think that case is even worse. The confederate statues often have text that is false, not historical. [See previous threads on topic.]
[/derail]

Yes. I had a rather frustrating conversation along those lines just the other day, hence my derailing poor mood on the matter. It was over an "indian chief" statue they're thinking of removing in the City. It was erected in the middle of the genocide years and is little better than a racist caricature, but apparently removing it would be "whitewashing history". Meanwhile our civic museum is open two days a week because that's what their budget allows for.

I try to be allowing for differences of opinion, but some days it seems like the Trumpuenos pick and choose what principles to honor and which to ignore situationally and based on pure emotionalism.

Oh yes, the "whitewashing history" objection.

Almost every person with which I argued in real life and on the internet that took the position that it was wrong to remove commemorative Confederate statues from the public square used the "whitewashing history" objection to the removal.

It didn't occur to any of them that the "whitewashing" occurs when you leave such statues in positions of honor in the public square and ignore that many of them were erected in the early 20th century in towns where Jim Crow was clawing to remain in charge.

What I realize is that their objection isn't based on thought. Their reaction is just a poor articulation of their "something just isn't right about it" gut feeling. What doesn't feel right to them is that the history they know and have internalized is being threatened.

 

[LordKiran]

This is old. And people need to settle down. People say crazy shit all the time without escalating things further. I'm not trying to make excuses for the man, but we shouldn't make mountains out of molehills. It just makes us look silly.

Person suggests verbally that threats of violence are bad: "Whoa, that kind of extremism has no place in our society."

Person threatens an act of physical violence against those they disagree with: "People say crazy shit, not to worry, no one ever actually burns books."

***


And I don't know what you mean by "old", Revolution Books has been assaulted dozens of times this year by the same group, and there's no reason whatsoever to imagine that these assaults won't continue to escalate if nothing is done about it.

I had heard of the one man in the maga hat something like a month(?) ago. I am quick to dismiss it as a one-off event and am leery of people making overmuch of things like this because I feel that is sensationalist. I didn't know this had happened multiple times. That changes things imo. Do you have an article handy?

 

[Politesse]

This is old. And people need to settle down. People say crazy shit all the time without escalating things further. I'm not trying to make excuses for the man, but we shouldn't make mountains out of molehills. It just makes us look silly.

Person suggests verbally that threats of violence are bad: "Whoa, that kind of extremism has no place in our society."

Person threatens an act of physical violence against those they disagree with: "People say crazy shit, not to worry, no one ever actually burns books."

***


And I don't know what you mean by "old", Revolution Books has been assaulted dozens of times this year by the same group, and there's no reason whatsoever to imagine that these assaults won't continue to escalate if nothing is done about it.

I had heard of the one man in the maga hat something like a month(?) ago. I am quick to dismiss it as a one-off event and am leery of people making overmuch of things like this because I feel that is sensationalist. I didn't know this had happened multiple times. That changes things imo. Do you have an article handy?

Right-wing protesters attack Revolution Books 3 times in 2 days (Sept 2017)

Revolution Books Weathers Harassment Campaign by Alt Right Activists (Oct 2017)

Right-wing activists target Berkeley’s Revolution Books again (March 2018)

 

[LordKiran]

I had heard of the one man in the maga hat something like a month(?) ago. I am quick to dismiss it as a one-off event and am leery of people making overmuch of things like this because I feel that is sensationalist. I didn't know this had happened multiple times. That changes things imo. Do you have an article handy?

Right-wing protesters attack Revolution Books 3 times in 2 days (Sept 2017)

Revolution Books Weathers Harassment Campaign by Alt Right Activists (Oct 2017)

Right-wing activists target Berkeley’s Revolution Books again (March 2018)

Ahh, and the one I've seen appears to be the most recent. Yeah that's pretty awful then. The storeowner should consider a restraining order.

 

[Politesse]

I had heard of the one man in the maga hat something like a month(?) ago. I am quick to dismiss it as a one-off event and am leery of people making overmuch of things like this because I feel that is sensationalist. I didn't know this had happened multiple times. That changes things imo. Do you have an article handy?

Right-wing protesters attack Revolution Books 3 times in 2 days (Sept 2017)

Revolution Books Weathers Harassment Campaign by Alt Right Activists (Oct 2017)

Right-wing activists target Berkeley’s Revolution Books again (March 2018)

Ahh, and the one I've seen appears to be the most recent. Yeah that's pretty awful then. The storeowner should consider a restraining order.

Those don't help much with doxxing.

 

[LordKiran]

Ahh, and the one I've seen appears to be the most recent. Yeah that's pretty awful then. The storeowner should consider a restraining order.

Those don't help much with doxxing.

Meh, I don't have a problem with doxxing. You don't have any privacy on the internet ESPECIALLY when you integrate that internet into your daily life. I do have a problem with people going around making repeated threats of physical violence against a store owner and their property though. That's pretty fucked.

 

[Politesse]

Ahh, and the one I've seen appears to be the most recent. Yeah that's pretty awful then. The storeowner should consider a restraining order.

Those don't help much with doxxing.

Meh, I don't have a problem with doxxing. You don't have any privacy on the internet ESPECIALLY when you integrate that internet into your daily life. I do have a problem with people going around making repeated threats of physical violence against a store owner and their property though. That's pretty fucked.

I don't know why you see those things as unrelated. The whole point of doxxing is so everyone knows where to send their threats and mail bombs and what have you...

 

[LordKiran]

Meh, I don't have a problem with doxxing. You don't have any privacy on the internet ESPECIALLY when you integrate that internet into your daily life. I do have a problem with people going around making repeated threats of physical violence against a store owner and their property though. That's pretty fucked.

I don't know why you see those things as unrelated. The whole point of doxxing is so everyone knows where to send their threats and mail bombs and what have you...

Has anyone ever been sent an actual bomb as the result of being doxxed? Typically the result of being doxxed is public ridicule and maybe getting fired from your job.

 

[Mumbles]

Meh, I don't have a problem with doxxing. You don't have any privacy on the internet ESPECIALLY when you integrate that internet into your daily life. I do have a problem with people going around making repeated threats of physical violence against a store owner and their property though. That's pretty fucked.

I don't know why you see those things as unrelated. The whole point of doxxing is so everyone knows where to send their threats and mail bombs and what have you...

Has anyone ever been sent an actual bomb as the result of being doxxed? Typically the result of being doxxed is public ridicule and maybe getting fired from your job.

...and people calling SWAT teams to people's houses.

The Youtuber Destiny has had multiple visits from the FBI based entirely on false reports. Quite a few people have had strangers stalk them.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Indeed. Similar to their vigorous campaign against "erasing history", which is curiously specific to the situation of taking down confederate statues on public land. (Any other statue, national historical monuments, archaeological sites, entire academic history departments, and history museums, are free to go)

I think that case is even worse. The confederate statues often have text that is false, not historical. [See previous threads on topic.]
[/derail]

Even more than that, books are currently one of the easiest ways to actually learn about history, while statues of the type under discussion (confederate statues are hardly the same as Michelangelo's David) serve to show admiration for the figure in question.

Of course, for people like Dolt 45 who are too pompous and lazy to read books, the confusion is somewhat understandable...

Dunning Kruger in action.

I think the operating principle is that if it feels good it is good.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Its a communist book store and his name is "Redmonde"? Got to love that.

http://www.dailycal.org/2017/09/27/right-wing-protesters-attack-revolution-books-3-times-in-2-days/

“These fascists were yelling very crude things at us,” said Revolution Books manager Reiko Redmonde. “They represent the opposite of what the store is.”