America: Imagine the World Without Her

[NobleSavage]

Dinesh D' Souza is a tool. I'm SURE this movie sucks. However, it's a good question. Is the world better off because of the USA?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Well, we'd all be praising our benevolent Kaiser Kim John Unhoffermeyer.

 

[Jayjay]

The world according to D'Souza:

America is awesomest country ever, unless Obama gets re-elected in 2012 and ruins it all. Two more years to go before it all crumbles to dust.

 

[bilby]

If the USA had remained a part of the British Empire, I don't think the differences would be very noticeable; Of course, such counter-factuals are difficult to confirm or refute, but I don't see an obvious mechanism whereby US innovation, technological and/or economic progress would have been harmed by remaining a colony, and becoming a dominion in the vein of Canada or Australia.

There isn't any good reason to think that there would have been no equivalent to the American Civil War in such a world; the British Imperial decisions to end the slave trade, and ultimately slavery itself, would simply have been imposed from London on the Slave States. Those States might, as a result, have attempted to secede from the Empire; but there is no reason to imagine that the government in London would have been any less successful in preventing this than was the Union during the actual Civil War. The British army dominated the world in the second part of the 1800s, and a successful war in the Americas would not have been difficult for them to prosecute, particularly given the popularity of the anti-slavery cause in England at that time.

If anything, earlier direct involvement by the USA in WWII might have accelerated her technological progress - there is nothing like a war to get people inventing - but that said, earlier US involvement in WWI might have prevented WWII altogether (a shorter war ending in a clear defeat for the Central Powers could well have made Nazism less attractive in post war Germany). All in all, it is a wash; The world as a whole probably wouldn't be much better or worse off if there was a British Dominion of North American States rather than a USA. The main difference would be that the world hegemon would live on Downing Street, and not on Pennsylvania Avenue.

Perhaps a better question is, given that we DO have the USA dominating the modern world, what would happen if suddenly she was gone? If you like this kind of speculative stuff, I would recommend John Birmingham's Without Warning. Whether or not the USA was necessary to get the world to where we are today, it seems likely that her sudden disappearance or collapse (now that she is here, and has risen to such military and economic dominance) would be catastrophic.

 

[NobleSavage]

Perhaps a better question is, given that we DO have the USA dominating the modern world, what would happen if suddenly she was gone? If you like this kind of speculative stuff, I would recommend John Birmingham's Without Warning. Whether or not the USA was necessary to get the world to where we are today, it seems likely that her sudden disappearance or collapse (now that she is here, and has risen to such military and economic dominance) would be catastrophic.

Thanks, added book to my wish list.

 

[thebeave]

I thought Dinesh got sent to jail? Did he get out already?

ETA (from his Wikipedia page):

In January 2014, D'Souza was indicted on charges of making illegal political contributions to a 2012 United States Senate campaign.[12] On May 20, 2014, D'Souza pleaded guilty in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York to a charge of using "straw donors" to make illegal political campaign donations. On September 23, D'Souza avoided prison time and was sentenced to eight months in a community confinement center, five years parole, and a $30,000 fine.[13][14]

So, he's in a "community confinement center", whatever the fuck that is.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I thought Dinesh got sent to jail? Did he get out already?

ETA (from his Wikipedia page):

In January 2014, D'Souza was indicted on charges of making illegal political contributions to a 2012 United States Senate campaign.[12] On May 20, 2014, D'Souza pleaded guilty in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York to a charge of using "straw donors" to make illegal political campaign donations. On September 23, D'Souza avoided prison time and was sentenced to eight months in a community confinement center, five years parole, and a $30,000 fine.[13][14]

So, he's in a "community confinement center", whatever the fuck that is.

He is supposed to be teaching ESL classes

He vows to turn all immigrants republican.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

He is supposed to be teaching ESL classes

He vows to turn all immigrants republican.

Well, that's just cheating. If you teach the immigrants the wrong meanings of the words, they think the GOP is praising them and welcoming them into the country.

 

[untermensche]

Imagine the world if the US behaved differently.

Imagine the world if the US was not an oligarchical imperial menace?

 

[Eldarion Lathria]

WW2 was between Atlantis and Japan over the western part of Belegronda Sartea. All of the continent east of the Missiponkhi river are provinces of the Erainalorni ra Atlantis.

Eldarion Lathria

 

[Togo]

At the moment, the US is a destination of choice for investment world-wide. People from all over the world move their money, their businesses, their ideas or even themselves, to the States. Are we assuming that disappears, or that it gets relocated?

 

[dystopian]

At the moment, the US is a destination of choice for investment world-wide. People from all over the world move their money, their businesses, their ideas or even themselves, to the States. Are we assuming that disappears, or that it gets relocated?

It'd obviously get relocated. There are plenty of good solid, stable alternatives. The EU would be the obvious choice; it already receives far more foreign investment than the US does, is the largest economy in the world, the Euro is the only viable reserve currency in the event the US disappears (the Dollar represents 60% of the world total exchange reserves, the Euro 24%, and the Yen; in third place; only 4%), and it consists of mostly well developed democracies that tend to attract foreign talent and interest. Assuming a world war doesn't break out immediately as countries try to take advantage of the power vacuum, Europe would be the immediate winner; and it'd probably find itself forced to increase integration efforts and strengthen its armed forces in order to protect itself from other powers that might get overconfident with NATO cut in half. As a result, a stronger and more unified EU would probably take on the roles the US currently holds in the world. At the same time, the transition period would enable the likes of China and Russia to strengthen their positions relative to the west, so a stronger EU might not have quite the edge the US currently enjoys and instead of being the only game in town would probably find itself as the biggest player in a multi-polar world.

But really, it depends on the exact nature of the sudden disappearance, and the response that powerful and ambitious countries give; if peace prevails on a global scale (ignoring smaller conflicts), then Europe probably emerges as the new US. If large-scale conflict occurs in the immediate aftermath, it's anyone's guess.

 

[untermensche]

If somehow the US blew itself up with it's own many weapons would the world be able to go on without this huge hypocritical bully?

 

[Togo]

Would some other power become a bully in its stead?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Would some other power become a bully in its stead?

I think you'd get a larger number of regional bullies. It takes a lot of resources to extend one's reach across the whole globe and bullies would probably just stay in their own neighbourhoods.

 

[dystopian]

Would some other power become a bully in its stead?

I think you'd get a larger number of regional bullies. It takes a lot of resources to extend one's reach across the whole globe and bullies would probably just stay in their own neighbourhoods.

Then it just becomes a matter of time before one of them decides that "it's best to bully people in their own neighborhood so that they're too busy to come over and start shit in yours". Besides, there'd be a lot of prime real-estate (The Americas) without a regional bully in place, so that's a growth area for ambitious bullies who want to keep potential bullies (Brazil?) from spilling out from the region in the future.