America Primero

[Loren Pechtel]

Two for three--but one of your two is backwards.

Black racism has done far more harm to the black community than white racism.

Really - black racism has done more to harm the black community that slavery or Jim Crow laws?

Slavery and Jim Crow were generations ago.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Really - black racism has done more to harm the black community that slavery or Jim Crow laws?

Well, yeah.
It's the media.
EVERYONE remembers the 'whites only' vs. 'coloreds' water fountains, but no one ever posts pictures of the 'black' vs. 'not black enough' fountains.

What you guys aren't getting is time!

Yes, some very bad things happened in the past. There are no victims of slavery (other than modern sex slaves but that's not racial) around--it's not hurting people.

There are some victims of Jim Crow but they're retired by now. The effects are minor.

When you look at what is causing current problems you need to look at current causes.

A big part of the problem is the drug war.

Beyond that, though, is the problem of having someone else to blame makes it so much easier to avoid looking at the real problems.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Well, yeah.
It's the media.
EVERYONE remembers the 'whites only' vs. 'coloreds' water fountains, but no one ever posts pictures of the 'black' vs. 'not black enough' fountains.

What you guys aren't getting is time!

You didn't give any sort of time frame in your comment... I wasn't aware that the effects of racism and slavery had fully expired, and now we're facing...um...

Where are the blacks flexing their racist powers to impact the black community greater than entrenched institutional racism?

 

[laughing dog]

Really - black racism has done more to harm the black community that slavery or Jim Crow laws?

Slavery and Jim Crow were generations ago.

As Keith & Co pointed out, you had no time constraints. And you see to ignore the lingering effects of both on the current generations. For example, are you under the impression that the voter ID laws targeted at suppressing the black vote is the result of "black racism".? Or the lack of trust of the police on the part of a segment of the black community is solely due to "black racism"?

 

[bilby]

I'm here today to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

I'm glad.

I'm skeptical.

 

[untermensche]

Well, yeah.
It's the media.
EVERYONE remembers the 'whites only' vs. 'coloreds' water fountains, but no one ever posts pictures of the 'black' vs. 'not black enough' fountains.

What you guys aren't getting is time!

Yes, some very bad things happened in the past. There are no victims of slavery (other than modern sex slaves but that's not racial) around--it's not hurting people.

There are some victims of Jim Crow but they're retired by now. The effects are minor.

When you look at what is causing current problems you need to look at current causes.

A big part of the problem is the drug war.

Beyond that, though, is the problem of having someone else to blame makes it so much easier to avoid looking at the real problems.

The prisons say that time has not done anything.

The number of unarmed black men shot in the streets says that time has not done anything.

The state of inner cities all over this nation says that time has not done anything.

You blame the victims and see reactions to poverty as causes.

There has been no break in poverty for hundreds of years for many blacks. Generations first of blacks who by law owned nothing then generations more of unbroken poverty.

Presently what is being done to improve poverty in the inner cities?

What is it you support?

How about a project to make inner city schools the best in the nation and the money behind it to make it happen? Is that possible in a capitalist utopia?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

If you number yourself among those of us who work long hours for short pay, whether you are working for yourself or someone else, your problem is not now nor ever has it been immigrants. Immigrants would not leave hearth and home to come to a strange land where they have nothing and know no one, unless someone here was offering them something for their trouble. Your problems stem for people living behind gates with their own private security, their own private schools, their own private jets, and their own best government money can buy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Slavery and Jim Crow were generations ago.

As Keith & Co pointed out, you had no time constraints. And you see to ignore the lingering effects of both on the current generations. For example, are you under the impression that the voter ID laws targeted at suppressing the black vote is the result of "black racism".? Or the lack of trust of the police on the part of a segment of the black community is solely due to "black racism"?

I see voter ID laws aimed at the poor who tend to vote Democrat. The objective is political, not racial.

And black racism certainly has something to do with the distrust of police. The racists keep preaching that the police are evil even when it should be obvious they acted reasonably and too many buy into it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The prisons say that time has not done anything.

The prisons are mostly due to the drug war.

The number of unarmed black men shot in the streets says that time has not done anything.

Black racism. It's not like the only threat is a gun.

The state of inner cities all over this nation says that time has not done anything.

Drug war.

You blame the victims and see reactions to poverty as causes.

Most poverty is self-inflicted.

There has been no break in poverty for hundreds of years for many blacks. Generations first of blacks who by law owned nothing then generations more of unbroken poverty.

Self-inflicted.

How about a project to make inner city schools the best in the nation and the money behind it to make it happen? Is that possible in a capitalist utopia?

There's no reason to. It's already been proven that throwing money at the inner city schools doesn't help. The schools are far more a reflection of the students than due to anything the state does. If the parents don't care the schools are going to be crap no matter what.

 

[laughing dog]

As Keith & Co pointed out, you had no time constraints. And you see to ignore the lingering effects of both on the current generations. For example, are you under the impression that the voter ID laws targeted at suppressing the black vote is the result of "black racism".? Or the lack of trust of the police on the part of a segment of the black community is solely due to "black racism"?

I see voter ID laws aimed at the poor who tend to vote Democrat. The objective is political, not racial.

You see wrong - as a number of courts observed when the laws were struck down.

And black racism certainly has something to do with the distrust of police.

Maybe. Then again, maybe not. Of course, it begs the causation question - did black resentment against the police arise out of thin air or did police behavior over time generate this mistrust that demagogues could use to their advantage? Hmmm....

In either case, your initial claim of "Black racism has done far more harm to the black community than white racism." is unsubstantiated, unconvincing, and unreal.

The racists keep preaching that the police are evil even when it should be obvious they acted reasonably and too many buy into it.

Did you ever wonder why people buy into it? For example, when the racists keep preaching the police are good even when it should be obvious they acted unreasonably why so many people buy into it.

 

[Lion IRC]

I see voter ID laws aimed at the poor who tend to vote Democrat. The objective is political, not racial.

You see wrong - as a number of courts observed when the laws were struck down.

And black racism certainly has something to do with the distrust of police.

Maybe. Then again, maybe not. Of course, it begs the causation question - did black resentment against the police arise out of thin air or did police behavior over time generate this mistrust that demagogues could use to their advantage? Hmmm....

In either case, your initial claim of "Black racism has done far more harm to the black community than white racism." is unsubstantiated, unconvincing, and unreal.

The racists keep preaching that the police are evil even when it should be obvious they acted reasonably and too many buy into it.

Did you ever wonder why people buy into it? For example, when the racists keep preaching the police are good even when it should be obvious they acted unreasonably why so many people buy into it.

"None in the land can say
To us black men today:
You smash stock markets with your coined blitzkreigs,
And make a hundred million guinea pigs.
You counterfeit our Christianity,
And bring contempt upon Democracy!"
Dark Symphony - Melvin Tolson

 

[untermensche]

You blame the victims and see reactions to poverty as causes.

Most poverty is self-inflicted.

Most people in poverty are children.

Self inflicted?

There has been no break in poverty for hundreds of years for many blacks. Generations first of blacks who by law owned nothing then generations more of unbroken poverty.

Self-inflicted.

The slavery? The segregation? Self inflicted?

I am beginning to think you don't understand what those words mean.

Only racists think there is no consequence for centuries of institutional and legal racism.

There's no reason to. It's already been proven that throwing money at the inner city schools doesn't help.

Oh! You actually have proof of something.

OK. Show me this proof. Don't tell me about it. You have ZERO credibility. Show it.



Baldwin could be talking about present day conditions and this is from 1965. Probably more jobs in 1965 since the US had not exported so many manufacturing jobs overseas yet. Very little getting better.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I see voter ID laws aimed at the poor who tend to vote Democrat. The objective is political, not racial.

You see wrong - as a number of courts observed when the laws were struck down.

The effect is racial but that is simply a means, not an objective.

And black racism certainly has something to do with the distrust of police.

Maybe. Then again, maybe not. Of course, it begs the causation question - did black resentment against the police arise out of thin air or did police behavior over time generate this mistrust that demagogues could use to their advantage? Hmmm....

There is a lot of resentment from the police legitimately doing their jobs. People don't like being arrested even if they are guilty.

In either case, your initial claim of "Black racism has done far more harm to the black community than white racism." is unsubstantiated, unconvincing, and unreal.

The primary objection to it was from a bunch of people citing how the situation used to be long ago. I wasn't talking about 100 years ago, I was talking about the current situation. We don't have a time machine, we can't fix the past. Worry about what we can fix.

The racists keep preaching that the police are evil even when it should be obvious they acted reasonably and too many buy into it.

Did you ever wonder why people buy into it? For example, when the racists keep preaching the police are good even when it should be obvious they acted unreasonably why so many people buy into it.

Most people would prefer to blame outsiders than themselves/their group.

We see the same thing with a lot of the Trumpets blaming immigrants for taking jobs they don't want in the first place.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Most poverty is self-inflicted.

Most people in poverty are children.

Self inflicted?

The family is in poverty due to the choices of the adults.

There has been no break in poverty for hundreds of years for many blacks. Generations first of blacks who by law owned nothing then generations more of unbroken poverty.

Self-inflicted.

The slavery? The segregation? Self inflicted?

I am beginning to think you don't understand what those words mean.

Only racists think there is no consequence for centuries of institutional and legal racism.

There are major consequences for those who actually lived through it. I disagree with the notion that it has major effects that carry over to the next generation, though. People in poverty are capable of raising their kids right and we see plenty of those in poverty escape this way.

We see tons of immigrants come here and have a low standard of living due to limited English/no professional skills. Their kids do fine, though.

Given the number that do escape the notion that it is a trap imposed by others makes no sense. The only model that makes sense is that it's due to their own attitudes.

There's no reason to. It's already been proven that throwing money at the inner city schools doesn't help.

Oh! You actually have proof of something.

OK. Show me this proof. Don't tell me about it. You have ZERO credibility. Show it.

I forget where it was but a judge tried exactly that--throwing a ton of money at it. Zero benefit.

Baldwin could be talking about present day conditions and this is from 1965. Probably more jobs in 1965 since the US had not exported so many manufacturing jobs overseas yet. Very little getting better.

I don't see what you're referring to there beyond the notion that the blacks should seek to improve themselves.

(And hint: the embedded YouTube player doesn't respect the time mark. If you're going to do a time mark better to just use a URL.)

 

[laughing dog]

You see wrong - as a number of courts observed when the laws were struck down.

The effect is racial but that is simply a means, not an objective.

Unfortunately for your position, the courts saw it differently. And so did a number of Republicans (http://billmoyers.com/2014/10/24/voter-discrimination/)

There is a lot of resentment from the police legitimately doing their jobs.

That missed the entire point of "did black resentment against the police arise out of thin air or did police behavior over time generate this mistrust that demagogues could use to their advantage? "

People don't like being arrested even if they are guilty.

And they like it even less when they are not guilty.

The primary objection to it was from a bunch of people citing how the situation used to be long ago. I wasn't talking about 100 years ago, I was talking about the current situation. We don't have a time machine, we can't fix the past. Worry about what we can fix.

Jim Crow was not 100 years ago. You wrote what you wrote. Moreover, your response does nothing to rebut that your initial claim of "Black racism has done far more harm to the black community than white racism." is unsubstantiated, unconvincing, and unreal.

Most people would prefer to blame outsiders than themselves/their group.

You mean like you are blaming blacks?