An Unbelievable Story of Rape

[coloradoatheist]

Making it up? They'd need to be accusing her of fabricating a wild story and harming herself in a manner consistent with being tied up and sexually assaulted. If they really thought that was the case, she needed to be, at least temporarily, institutionalized.

No. And maybe they thought about that too. There was a lot missing from this story about what went on within the depeartment about why they even charged her in the first place.

You misspelled unprofessional and incapable of following protocol.

They weren't going to catch this guy. It took several cases with being able to identify a car that happened to be caught on film and being at two scenes. Did they miss a camera in the parking lot at the lady's house? Did they not have the sheets checked for semen and hair?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No. And maybe they thought about that too. There was a lot missing from this story about what went on within the depeartment about why they even charged her in the first place.

Nothing good according to their own review of the case.

You misspelled unprofessional and incapable of following protocol.

They weren't going to catch this guy. It took several cases with being able to identify a car that happened to be caught on film and being at two scenes. Did they miss a camera in the parking lot at the lady's house? Did they not have the sheets checked for semen and hair?

That didn't address my comment.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Nothing good according to their own review of the case.

You misspelled unprofessional and incapable of following protocol.

They weren't going to catch this guy. It took several cases with being able to identify a car that happened to be caught on film and being at two scenes. Did they miss a camera in the parking lot at the lady's house? Did they not have the sheets checked for semen and hair?

That didn't address my comment.

Of course nothing good from the review, because it was wrong. That's true of every time a case turns out wrong either there, there is usually something different that could have been done either way.

And at what time during an investigation can the officer or officers who believe that a person is lying about what happened actually ask about it?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nothing good according to their own review of the case.

You misspelled unprofessional and incapable of following protocol.

They weren't going to catch this guy. It took several cases with being able to identify a car that happened to be caught on film and being at two scenes. Did they miss a camera in the parking lot at the lady's house? Did they not have the sheets checked for semen and hair?

That didn't address my comment.

Of course nothing good from the review, because it was wrong. That's true of every time a case turns out wrong either there, there is usually something different that could have been done either way.

Like following department protocol.

And at what time during an investigation can the officer or officers who believe that a person is lying about what happened actually ask about it?

Wounds consistent with sexual assault as was alleged by the victim should carry at least a little weight in the evidence column. Probably does if you follow protocol.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Nothing good according to their own review of the case.

You misspelled unprofessional and incapable of following protocol.

They weren't going to catch this guy. It took several cases with being able to identify a car that happened to be caught on film and being at two scenes. Did they miss a camera in the parking lot at the lady's house? Did they not have the sheets checked for semen and hair?

That didn't address my comment.

Of course nothing good from the review, because it was wrong. That's true of every time a case turns out wrong either there, there is usually something different that could have been done either way.

Like following department protocol.

And at what time during an investigation can the officer or officers who believe that a person is lying about what happened actually ask about it?

Wounds consistent with sexual assault as was alleged by the victim should carry at least a little weight in the evidence column. Probably does if you follow protocol.

So at no point in that investigation can they ask if she might be lying and self-inflicted things? Most people's response to that question would be your answer, no I didn't make it up, look at what happened down there. And then the officer would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt she did make it up.

 

[RavenSky]

Their refusal to understand/acknowledge item #1 explains item #2

No, that's not the problem. The bigger issue that people have is her saying that it didn't happen when it did. Juries haven't been too kind of people who give false confessions.

There was no "false confession" - she had nothing to "confess" - she was a rape victim who was bullied into saying the rape didn't happen. It wasn't even good enough for her to be bullied into saying maybe she dreamed it, the cop insisted she say that she made it up completely. And when she came back yet again to insist she was raped, she was bullied YET AGAIN. You are blaming her for that - saying that is what the problem was - exactly demonstrates why women do not want to report it when they are raped.

 

[RavenSky]

Of course with hindsight. We've seen cases where the police weren't skeptical enough. And it wasn't just the one officer, it was also Marie's friends and family who said she was making it up.

Not actually accurate. Her friends, all two of them who were questioned, believed her and stood by her throughout. One of the cops lied to Marie when he claimed that one of her friends didn't believe her. That cop was already treating Marie like she was the criminal.

It was one of the foster mothers who anonymously called the cop to say she had doubts.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Nothing good according to their own review of the case.

You misspelled unprofessional and incapable of following protocol.

They weren't going to catch this guy. It took several cases with being able to identify a car that happened to be caught on film and being at two scenes. Did they miss a camera in the parking lot at the lady's house? Did they not have the sheets checked for semen and hair?

That didn't address my comment.

Of course nothing good from the review, because it was wrong. That's true of every time a case turns out wrong either there, there is usually something different that could have been done either way.

Like following department protocol.

And at what time during an investigation can the officer or officers who believe that a person is lying about what happened actually ask about it?

Wounds consistent with sexual assault as was alleged by the victim should carry at least a little weight in the evidence column. Probably does if you follow protocol.

So at no point in that investigation can they ask if she might be lying and self-inflicted things?

It should be further down the to-do list, also known as "protocol".

Most people's response to that question would be your answer, no I didn't make it up, look at what happened down there. And then the officer would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt she did make it up.

Odd that you say that. You make it sound like she walked in, said she was raped, the officers ask if she is making it up, she says yes, she is charged and pleads to a crime. That isn't what happened here.

 

[Rhea]

Most people's response to that question would be

You, and the cops, turn out to be demonstrably wrong about what "most" rape victims will do.
And that is why there is a protocol to overcome this "I've never been in those shoes, I have no idea how she'd respond, so it should be as I would have," bias.

The protocol is because of cops who think like you do on this.

Most rape victims know perfectly well how horribly ugly it will get. Some brave the system. Some, when faced with the expected horrible treatment, decide to avoid it. AS soon as you get the first hint of how YOU will be violated (again), it is perfectly normal to withdraw and try to get the fuck out of that situation that you know will be awful.

You don't get this, it's okay, we understand. That's why police have a protocol to walk you through it.

Victims of trauma act differently than people who have never experienced trauma might expect them to.

 

[RavenSky]

They weren't going to catch this guy. It took several cases with being able to identify a car that happened to be caught on film and being at two scenes. Did they miss a camera in the parking lot at the lady's house? Did they not have the sheets checked for semen and hair?

I will grant that this rapist was very very good at hiding his tracks. He even boasted about how good he was. I think his actions should serve as an education to police departments about steps they should take to catch rapists... starting with how they treat the rape victim and including inter-departmental cooperation.

However, the utter failure in Marie's case had nothing to do with how good or bad the rapist was at covering his tracks. It had to do with how bad the police officer was at handling the case. He is the one who fucked up, and he is the reason that all of the physical evidence that might have caught the rapist was destroyed without testing. Had he not decided without evidence that Marie was lying, and had he not decided to ignore the evidence of rape they did have, then possibly some of the other women would not have been raped. This police department was contacted by the neighboring department before the last couple of women were raped, but since this police officer was insistent that Marie had lied, his department did not provide any information that would have helped connect the dots before the last victims were raped.

- - - Updated - - -

Most people's response to that question would be your answer, no I didn't make it up, look at what happened down there. And then the officer would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt she did make it up.

Yes, exactly.

 

[coloradoatheist]

No, that's not the problem. The bigger issue that people have is her saying that it didn't happen when it did. Juries haven't been too kind of people who give false confessions.

There was no "false confession" - she had nothing to "confess" - she was a rape victim who was bullied into saying the rape didn't happen. It wasn't even good enough for her to be bullied into saying maybe she dreamed it, the cop insisted she say that she made it up completely. And when she came back yet again to insist she was raped, she was bullied YET AGAIN. You are blaming her for that - saying that is what the problem was - exactly demonstrates why women do not want to report it when they are raped.

It is akin to a false confession because she said it didn't happen. Most rape cases aren't as straight forward as this one so there will be a lot more questioning than this one. This one should have been easy for her. That's the issue.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There was no "false confession" - she had nothing to "confess" - she was a rape victim who was bullied into saying the rape didn't happen. It wasn't even good enough for her to be bullied into saying maybe she dreamed it, the cop insisted she say that she made it up completely. And when she came back yet again to insist she was raped, she was bullied YET AGAIN. You are blaming her for that - saying that is what the problem was - exactly demonstrates why women do not want to report it when they are raped.

It is akin to a false confession because she said it didn't happen. Most rape cases aren't as straight forward as this one so there will be a lot more questioning than this one. This one should have been easy for her. That's the issue.

Underwear Gnome Fallacy.

1) Report of rape
2) ...
3) Admits to lying about it

 

[RavenSky]

There was no "false confession" - she had nothing to "confess" - she was a rape victim who was bullied into saying the rape didn't happen. It wasn't even good enough for her to be bullied into saying maybe she dreamed it, the cop insisted she say that she made it up completely. And when she came back yet again to insist she was raped, she was bullied YET AGAIN. You are blaming her for that - saying that is what the problem was - exactly demonstrates why women do not want to report it when they are raped.

It is akin to a false confession because she said it didn't happen.

No, it was not "akin" to a false confession. It was "akin" to being bullied by a police officer - for which you are blaming her.

Most rape cases aren't as straight forward as this one so there will be a lot more questioning than this one. This one should have been easy for her. That's the issue.

Wrong again, this is not the "issue". The issue is how the cop behaved, not how she behaved.

And how unbelievably fucked up it is to say that "this one should have been easy for her." If what fucked-up imaginings would having her home broken into and her being tied up and raped for hours be "easy for her". That you think this should be "easy" for her to discuss - especially with a cop who is making it clear he doesn't believe her and who is bullying her into not telling what happened - that you think this should have been "easy" is exactly why women don't report rape.

 

[Rhea]

This one should have been easy for her. That's the issue.

The Police.
Failed.
Protocol.


That's what made this so hard for her.

This is a story about a massive police fuck-up.
This is not a story about how rape victims should be easily able to navigate a rape, a police department, a foster mother.... oh, and an abusive past, a mere 18 years of life experience, and a series of foster homes.


No it wasn't easy for her.
It not something that "should have been" easy for her.
The police department knows this.
They know they fucked up.
Badly.
They let her down.

Being raped and trying to recall it for questioning is not, and never is, "easy" for anyone, let alone an 18 year old who never had a stable home.

Do you hear yourself? Still blaming her, even when the Police themselves tell you you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It is akin to a false confession because she said it didn't happen.

No, it was not "akin" to a false confession. It was "akin" to being bullied by a police officer - for which you are blaming her.

Most rape cases aren't as straight forward as this one so there will be a lot more questioning than this one. This one should have been easy for her. That's the issue.

Wrong again, this is not the "issue". The issue is how the cop behaved, not how she behaved.

And how unbelievably fucked up it is to say that "this one should have been easy for her." If what fucked-up imaginings would having her home broken into and her being tied up and raped for hours be "easy for her". That you think this should be "easy" for her to discuss - especially with a cop who is making it clear he doesn't believe her and who is bullying her into not telling what happened - that you think this should have been "easy" is exactly why women don't report rape.

It wasn't just the cops either, it was her foster mom and her friend Jordan who thought she was lying too. Rape is probably the most difficult crime to prove in most cases so it's easy to see why most women don't come forward. A stranger breaking into your house should be one easier to stand up for than having to send your boyfriend to jail because he went to far one night.

The police screwed up in several instances, but there is a point where the police do need to verify things happened they way they did.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Here are the things that should change, and just in general too

1) All questioning should be videotaped
2) All materials should be tested (there was nothing in this article that suggested they weren't, but it didn't say either way)
3) The officers should have still listened to the other department when calling
4) She should never have been charged with a false report, just said thank you and left it at that.


5) And there should be a way to appeal to a different police department.

 

[RavenSky]

No, it was not "akin" to a false confession. It was "akin" to being bullied by a police officer - for which you are blaming her.

Most rape cases aren't as straight forward as this one so there will be a lot more questioning than this one. This one should have been easy for her. That's the issue.

Wrong again, this is not the "issue". The issue is how the cop behaved, not how she behaved.

And how unbelievably fucked up it is to say that "this one should have been easy for her." If what fucked-up imaginings would having her home broken into and her being tied up and raped for hours be "easy for her". That you think this should be "easy" for her to discuss - especially with a cop who is making it clear he doesn't believe her and who is bullying her into not telling what happened - that you think this should have been "easy" is exactly why women don't report rape.

It wasn't just the cops either, it was her foster mom and her friend Jordan who thought she was lying too.

wrong wrong and again wrong. I've corrected you on this point multiple times now. Go read the two articles that have been linked in this thread.

Her friend Jordan did NOT think she was lying - not at any point in time. The cop LIED to Marie and said that, but it was not ever a fact. Allegedly, the order of post-rape events as told to Jordan by Marie, and then from Jordan to the cop, was slightly different. Specifically - whether or not Marie was still tied up when she called Jordan after the rape. That's it. That was the entire alleged discrepancy - and we only have the cop's word for it that Jordan's hearsay account actually differed from Marie's account... the same cop who had already decided Marie had lied.

But at no point did Jordan think Marie was lying.

For that matter, neither did the bird-brained foster mother. She adamantly maintains that she never said Marie was lying - only that she might be exaggerating for attention, and that (in her un-expert opinion) Marie's post-rape emotions and behavior weren't right. This idiot, to the date of the two articles, still blames Marie for not reacting to her rape the way foster-mom thinks would be "normal"... just like you do.

Rape is probably the most difficult crime to prove in most cases so it's easy to see why most women don't come forward. A stranger breaking into your house should be one easier to stand up for than having to send your boyfriend to jail because he went to far one night.

because people like to think "stranger-rape" is the only "real rape"?

The police screwed up in several instances, but there is a point where the police do need to verify things happened they way they did.

"Verify" is not the same thing as assume the victim is lying and then proceed as if she is. "Verify" would have been to check the sheets for hairs and/or DNA, run the fingerprints from the sliding glass door, etc... not bully the victim and then destroy that evidence

 

[coloradoatheist]

What was the second link? I didn't see it in the OP.

 

[Arctish]

It is akin to a false confession because she said it didn't happen.

No, it was not "akin" to a false confession. It was "akin" to being bullied by a police officer - for which you are blaming her.

IMO it was akin to extortion.

The police threatened her with arrest, prosecution, and imprisonment if she continued to say she was raped. She needed public assistance to afford her own place to stay; there's no way she could have afforded an attorney to represent her. And people living in public housing apartments can be evicted if they're in trouble with the law, so the cops were also threatening her with homelessness.

The cops extorted a retraction from a rape victim. Everyone understands this, even other cops. And yet in the minds of some folks, the failure of the investigation was the fault of the woman for not being strong and fierce and stubborn and untraumatized enough to tell the cops to go do their fucking jobs, while also being polite and nice and cooperative and subservient (because we all know what these same folks would say if the woman got uppity and mouthy and told the cops to go do their fucking jobs).

 

[Arctish]

A stranger breaking into your house should be one easier to stand up for than having to send your boyfriend to jail because he went to far one night.

So if one woman has the strength of character and emotional support to report an abusive boyfriend to cops who might disbelieve, threaten, and bully her to recant, that means _all_ women have the strength of character and emotional support to follow through on reporting their rape by a stranger to cops who _do_ disbelieve, threaten, and bully her to recant?

Strength of character isn't uniformly distributed. Neither is emotional support. Neither is trauma. You are comparing different people with different histories in different situations, so it's not at all surprising that you're seeing different reactions.