An Unbelievable Story of Rape

[RVonse]

I guess it all come down to is which is worse? The police state that beats people into submitting to crimes they did not commit and all the prosecutors throwing plea bargains just for convenience and making themselves look good......

Or all the numerous women pointed out by Derec who make false rape charges without any consequence?

I honestly don't know which I find worse. Because they are both really bad problems of our society that should be fixed.

 

[repoman]

Why try to compare the two? Different things are different.

 

[Playball40]

I guess it all come down to is which is worse? The police state that beats people into submitting to crimes they did not commit and all the prosecutors throwing plea bargains just for convenience and making themselves look good......

Or all the numerous women pointed out by Derec who make false rape charges without any consequence?

I honestly don't know which I find worse. Because they are both really bad problems of our society that should be fixed.

Really? Like who? I've heard of women that have re-canted their accusation, but that by no means is an indication she "made a false charge". Did you not read the article?

Recant does not equal lied
no evidence does not equal lied
inconsistencies does not equal lied

You understand, right?

 

[Rhea]

Indeed. the FBI data shows about 5% of rape claim are classed "unfounded." INCLUDING ONES EXACTLY LIKE THIS ONE, where a rape did happen and no one believed her. They label that "unfounded."

 

[RVonse]

I guess it all come down to is which is worse? The police state that beats people into submitting to crimes they did not commit and all the prosecutors throwing plea bargains just for convenience and making themselves look good......

Or all the numerous women pointed out by Derec who make false rape charges without any consequence?

I honestly don't know which I find worse. Because they are both really bad problems of our society that should be fixed.

Really? Like who? I've heard of women that have re-canted their accusation, but that by no means is an indication she "made a false charge". Did you not read the article?

Recant does not equal lied
no evidence does not equal lied
inconsistencies does not equal lied

You understand, right?

Lying about rape means that they lied. I'm not going to research all of Derec's posts but he has given a lot of concrete examples. Google is much easier for me: http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-blo...o-lied-about-being-raped-and-why-they-did-it/
12 Women Who Lied About Being Raped And Why They Did It

And lying about rape is really bad. Its bad enough that the consequences of doing this should be a sufficiently high enough detriment (which it presently is not) in order to discourage it from happening all the time.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I head this on This American Life.
Link
Interesting story. Listening to the audio may lend a bit of insight.

 

[laughing dog]

Really? Like who? I've heard of women that have re-canted their accusation, but that by no means is an indication she "made a false charge". Did you not read the article?

Recant does not equal lied
no evidence does not equal lied
inconsistencies does not equal lied

You understand, right?

Lying about rape means that they lied. I'm not going to research all of Derec's posts but he has given a lot of concrete examples. Google is much easier for me: http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-blo...o-lied-about-being-raped-and-why-they-did-it/
12 Women Who Lied About Being Raped And Why They Did It

And lying about rape is really bad. Its bad enough that the consequences of doing this should be a sufficiently high enough detriment (which it presently is not) in order to discourage it from happening all the time.

Lying about rape is really bad. Raping someone is worse. Raping someone and then lying about it is even worser. Being raped and then being disbelieved is terrible Being raped and then being bullied into recanting is even worse than the other four.

So why on earth would anyone focus on the least of the 5 bad outcomes? Hmmm...

 

[RavenSky]

Really? Like who? I've heard of women that have re-canted their accusation, but that by no means is an indication she "made a false charge". Did you not read the article?

Recant does not equal lied
no evidence does not equal lied
inconsistencies does not equal lied

You understand, right?

Lying about rape means that they lied. I'm not going to research all of Derec's posts but he has given a lot of concrete examples. Google is much easier for me: http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-blo...o-lied-about-being-raped-and-why-they-did-it/
12 Women Who Lied About Being Raped And Why They Did It

And lying about rape is really bad. Its bad enough that the consequences of doing this should be a sufficiently high enough detriment (which it presently is not) in order to discourage it from happening all the time.

The problem with your claims, and the website you have linked to, is that in many of the cases in that article (and almost every case Derec has every brought up), you don't actually know if the woman factually lied or if it is more of what happened to Marie.

Marie could have wound up in jail, too, if she had not accepted a plea deal. But we know for an absolute fact that she was telling the truth about being raped.

In any case, I refuse to allow this thread to be side-tracked with you or Derec or anyone else throwing up story after story after story of women you claim lied.

I do, however, find it extremely interesting and telling that your go-to reaction is to simply double-down on your "women lie" narrative without even sparing a single sentence for discussing what happened to Marie, and how it happened, and the way that virtually everyone around her behaved.

No. Instead you post an article about 12 women who may or may not have lied, may or may not have been like Marie - an article wherein the author takes the alleged stories of these 12 women and extrapolates to all women.

No. Not all women. Not even a lot of women. In fact, damned few women. And not Marie.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Why can't we focus on all of the above?

This is a case of police misconduct, and it is an example of police bullying somebody into recanting their complaint of an actual crime that took place.

That doesn't make other crimes that you listed above any less heinous or worthy of attention. There is no need to take the sides that you folks so seem to love to take on this.

In any of the above cases the accused should be presumed innocent until proven guilty and the police and prosecutors should do their best to prove the guilt.

 

[RavenSky]

I head this on This American Life.
Link
Interesting story. Listening to the audio may lend a bit of insight.

Holy fuck:

The false reporting charge meant that Marie's rape case would be officially closed. The physical evidence police had gathered at the scene was destroyed except for a single fingerprint card that was left behind. Everything else-- the rape kit, the bedding, the DNA swabs-- they were never even tested in a crime lab, never analyzed. Further evidence that could have been gathered never was.

Peggy
Obviously, wish I hadn't. But on the other hand, there was all these other things, you know? I mean, the police and the way that Marie was acting. I mean, she on some level needs to take responsibility for that, too. I'm sorry, but that's true. And--

Robyn Semien
What do you mean?

Peggy
She needs to realize at some point, and I think she does now, that-- OK, I hate to say this. But you know, I mean-- OK, now this is going to sound really bad, like I'm blaming the victim. But some of the way that she was acting was part of the reason why it had the outcome that it did. And I am not the only person that didn't believe her.

Robyn Semien
But also, it sounds like everyone who was doubting her didn't have much information about the way that rape trauma can function. And so is this about the way that she acted?

Peggy
Well, it shouldn't be about the way that she acted. But, unfortunately, the reality is that that did influence-- and it sounds really harsh for me to say that. It's not her fault because I think it's totally a product of what she went through. But on the other hand-- oh, God. I don't know.

Thank you for the link. It definitely adds a lot more to the story of what happened to Marie.

 

[laughing dog]

Why can't we focus on all of the above?

Feel free to create a new thread.

This is a case of police misconduct, and it is an example of police bullying somebody into recanting their complaint of an actual crime that took place.

That doesn't make other crimes that you listed above any less heinous or worthy of attention. There is no need to take the sides that you folks so seem to love to take on this.

In any of the above cases the accused should be presumed innocent until proven guilty and the police and prosecutors should do their best to prove the guilt.

This thread about is the police bullying somebody into recanting the allegation of an actual rape (not any crime). It is not about lying about a rape (or any other crime crime). It shows that when there are small inconsistencies in a rape victim's story, that does not necessarily mean it is a false allegation. It shows that when a woman recants a rape allegation, it may not necessarily mean the allegation was false. It shows that there are police who brutally mishandle allegations of rape.

Yet for a number of people that message seems either unbelievable (i.e. shift the focus to false allegations of rape) or trivial (expand the message to something more general). Really, is that awful to acknowledge that people who allege rape may be telling the truth even when their stories are not airtight or believed?

 

[RavenSky]

Why can't we focus on all of the above?

This is a case of police misconduct, and it is an example of police bullying somebody into recanting their complaint of an actual crime that took place.

That doesn't make other crimes that you listed above any less heinous or worthy of attention. There is no need to take the sides that you folks so seem to love to take on this.

In any of the above cases the accused should be presumed innocent until proven guilty and the police and prosecutors should do their best to prove the guilt.

Because that is how Derec and his buddy up there derail, diffuse and dilute the fact that rape happens, and that all too often what happens to the victim after the rape is almost as horrifying. Derec and a few others pull that shit in every single thread about rape, and I refuse to allow it in this one - though I fully expected them to try it, and point to the fact they did as evidence of the sort of thing that happened to Marie.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

wrong.

Her "story" was true. Minor details were confused, which is completely normal.

Yes, which is normal human memory especially after trauma. They should have said I'm sorry we'll try and catch him but it will be tough.

Even if you figure it's only minor details she's still in the wrong. When confronted with the discrepancies she said she lied--at that point there's no doubt whatsoever she's lying about something.

 

[RavenSky]

Yes, which is normal human memory especially after trauma. They should have said I'm sorry we'll try and catch him but it will be tough.

Even if you figure it's only minor details she's still in the wrong. When confronted with the discrepancies she said she lied--at that point there's no doubt whatsoever she's lying about something.

Bullshit Loren.

Every witness statement will have minor discrepancies (unless they are lying), and for a young woman who has been traumatized by a horrible rape there will also very possibly be confusion, missing time, weird emotional affects, etc. This is exactly what the articles (you clearly have not read) talk about. She was NOT "in the wrong" and it is really very disgusting that you would say such a thing.

 

[laughing dog]

Yes, which is normal human memory especially after trauma. They should have said I'm sorry we'll try and catch him but it will be tough.

Even if you figure it's only minor details she's still in the wrong. When confronted with the discrepancies she said she lied--at that point there's no doubt whatsoever she's lying about something.

The woman was raped. WTF is wrong with you?

 

[Axulus]

What evidence do we have that Marie was "bullied" by the police? It seems that no one believed her due to what everyone thought was an unusual way of acting and she started backtracking on her story when the police and others challenged her. Challenging her story does not equal bullying.

 

[repoman]

Did they challenge the story while holding a threat over her head?

That would be counterproductive...

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes, which is normal human memory especially after trauma. They should have said I'm sorry we'll try and catch him but it will be tough.

Even if you figure it's only minor details she's still in the wrong. When confronted with the discrepancies she said she lied--at that point there's no doubt whatsoever she's lying about something.

She was bound.
She was gagged.
She was repeatedly raped for four hours.

These three things are fact.

No matter what else happens, what you think can happen, how people interact with the victim, she was bounded, gagged, and raped in her own home.

And then she had to plea out to lying about rape. The police didn't just not find the evidence to support the case, they charged her with lying about rape.

Did she fall apart during questioning, were details mixed up? She was traumatized because she was raped for four hours in her own home. Trauma does that to you. I remember walking in on a guy trying to rob my dorm, I couldn't remember what his clothes looked like after 10 minutes. Oh, wasn't traumatized by rape either. The Police should know stuff like that.

But let me get to the point, she was bounded, gagged, and raped and pleaded to lying about it. Had Derec and his pals known about the story, they would have posted here and gloated about a woman who was actually raped for four hours, had pleaded guilty to lying about rape. This tells us that rape, accusing of rape, living through a rape is absurdly hard. And that even if you can't prove it, that doesn't mean the woman is lying.

Yes, people lie about rape. However it is people like Derec and yourself that make it easier for the rapist in this case to rape more women.

 

[Rhea]

What evidence do we have that Marie was "bullied" by the police? It seems that no one believed her due to what everyone thought was an unusual way of acting and she started backtracking on her story when the police and others challenged her. Challenging her story does not equal bullying.

Didn't you read the article? Her behavior was _NOT_ unusual for a rape victim. The police department had even received training on this.

Fuckin' A can't you for one second even spare a thought for the problems that happened _to_ her? Is her life that cheap and meaningless to you?

Man that's cold.

Again, the FACT is that she WAS raped. So it is stunningly, glaringly obvious that this IS THE BEHAVIOR OF A RAPE VICTIM. She was raped at knifepoint by a stranger in her own home.

Holy fuck, people, at what point in your head does it become wrong action against her that she is caused to withdraw her complaint of this OBVIOUS CRIME? At what point in your head is it finally beyond wrong that the rape kit was not tested? Is there any rape ANYWHERE that you wouldn't somehow decide the conversation should be about what the victim did "wrong"? It does not get any more black and white obvious than this case. There was a PHOTO of it on the perp's camera. There were 4 other crimes with DNA evidence. She was violently attacked by a stranger, and "there was no evidence of bullying" that got her to decide, "fuck it, the police won't help" ?

The cops treated her like you guys are. And it was wrong, criminal and horrible. At least the one cop had the soul to feel ashamed of his behavior - 2 years later...

 

[Rhea]

double