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Ancient prophets

DrZoidberg

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I was listening to the History of the Papacy Podcast, and the episode, Garry and Steve’s Top 12 minor prophets. Great title name for a serious academic show on Biblical history. That whole series on the 12 minor prophets is great. I found it illuminating.

Here's what they say.
There are 31 prophets in the Bible. 12 prophets considered minor and 5 major prophets of the Bible. One of the later prophets, Ezekiel, makes a prediction of the future. Also Daniel does it in the (later) banned book of Daniel. The apocalypse of John is also a prediction of the future. These are what we in English refer to as prophecies. But most of the prophets did not make prophecies. Gary Stevens of the History in the Bible podcast, explains their role in Jewish society like this: They’re not Rabbis. They’re more affiliated with the secular running of the government. A prophet is officially, the voice of God. So God speaks to them and they tell the Jews what God is saying. In practice they’re royal “yes, men” eager to endorse whatever the current king of the Jews want them to endorse, and insisting that the will of the king is also the will of God. A modern equivalent would be Sergey Lavrov being Putin's prophet.

I also know from reading other stuff that prophet is a job description and there were prophets all over the place all over the Middle-East back then. I think Magi and interchangeable with Prophets. As well as sooth sayers. Back in the day, being a prophet was a cushy job. But not seen with the reverence we treat them today.

They've quite had their image improved over the ages.

Worth noting is that Stephen Guerra is Catholic. Gary Stevens is anglican. They're both very much Christian and it is a pro-Christian podcast. But they do have a historicistic approach. It's not a propaganda podcast. It's a scholarly podcast. They have plenty of top Biblical scholars on the show. It's a great podcast.

Not really a discussion piece. Anyhoo. What do you guy think?
 
Hmm. Not sure about prophets being mouthpieces for the royalty. Can you provide some support for that idea? Their main role was to keep everybody on the path to righteousness, and were unsparing in their attacks on the ruling elites, particularly the priests.
 
A prophet is one chosen by God to channel messages from God to the Israelites. Predicting the future was secondary, that ability, channeled through the prophets was a gurantee of their being true prophets. See Isaiah 43 - 46 for particulars.
 
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History is understood as the unfolding of God's relationship with his people. Past, present and future are enfolded in this relationship.
 
Ezekiel 36
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

With the "Great Commission" God could have made all mankind saintly, good, and never doing evil. Mankind's history shows no sign of the God of Ezekiel 36 (and other similar verses in the prophets) existing, demonstrating this Bible God is an idle fantasy.

No more idle fantasies, please.
 
^Mankind must mature, rising from the animal to rationality and then to the intellect. This takes time.
 
Dogs must become rational, Orcas must become rational, lions must become being rati0nall?

Humans must be something other than humans? That is a laugh.
 
I, prophet Selohssa, prophesy that a thousand thousand years from now, man shall still have the prophets, still revere the prophets, still revere those who interpret and proclaim the prophets, until the end of time. Thus thinketh Selohssa, thus speaketh Selohssa.
-Prophet Selohssa
 
Do Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce count?
 
Hmm. Not sure about prophets being mouthpieces for the royalty. Can you provide some support for that idea? Their main role was to keep everybody on the path to righteousness, and were unsparing in their attacks on the ruling elites, particularly the priests.

It's supposedly in the text. Remember, the Biblical Old Testament texts are Jewish propaganda pieces written to spin whatever the king in charge wants to do. Stuff like, the cynic might say that all the commandments about how offerings must be sacrificed is really just a disguised tax. The old testament has a heavy focus on the importance to serve the state.

Their argument is that the reason prophets are so important in the Bible is because they were saying what the king wanted God to say, and the scribes writing this stuff were all employed by the king. And if the prophet wasn't saying it, the king could no doubt make them write that the prophet said it. Writing books back then was very expensive.

The Bible wants to portray the prophets as unbiased and not the mouth pieces of the king. What better way than to slip in a non-threatening critique of the king.

My favourite bit is that the prophets Haggai and Zechariah both push Zerubabbel as the king of the Jews. They prophesize he will be the new king. In one of the first prophesies of a prophet in the Bible. It doesn’t work out that way. A good example of royal spin to push a favoured candidate

In English the word prophecy has been confused with an oracle. When it's true meaning is more like proclamation
 
The paradox of prophecy is the most accurate predictions do not happen. If w e disregard predictions of winning lottery numbers, the most useful predictions are used to change something in the present to avoid the prediction.

Biblical prophets are rarely prognosticators. Their role is to be a voice of God and directly address some current issue. In the story of King David and Bathsheba, David thinks he can get away with adultery and conspiracy to commit murder. Everyone in the palace knows what's going on, but nobody is going to say anything in public, except the prophet Nathan, who confronts David. If Nathan has any prophecy to make, it's "You're gonna be sorry".

Nathan could have been a lot more useful to David if he had come to David and said, "I know you like watching that woman across the road run around naked on her rooftop, but stay away from her, or you'll be sorry."
 
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