Apple ordered to pay up to 13 billion dollars in back taxes for taxes credits illegally granted by Ireland

[barbos]

Since the US corporate rate is about the highest in the world this creates a strong incentive not to locate your company HQ in the US if you have international income.

The effective US corporate tax rate is just about the same or maybe even a little lower than the international average.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2015/03/25/the-truth-about-corporate-tax-rates/#2eb75cc20a54
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41743.pdf

Keyword here is "effective" which means "actual" which means "using all available loopholes like Ireland and such"
Formal corporate tax rate which you pay if you don't hire tax evasion lawyers is much higher than in other countries.

Fact is, sales/VAT tax is the most sensible system if you can implement it.

 

[barbos]

Why is it unfair?

I don't know about VAT but sales taxes are considered extremely regressive. If you care at all about income inequality, which you may not I don't know, then this is not the type of tax you should be championing.

http://www.citylab.com/work/2015/01...get-the-poor-and-widen-the-income-gap/384643/

This is bullshit which always get repeated over and over again.
Poor pay same amount of taxes regardless of how it's paid, be it directly through sales tax or through income of Walmart owners which they don't pay anyway, cause they use these tax havens.

 

[Bomb#20]

Sales or value added taxes is where we need to go. Tax the product where the consumption is taking place. No fuss, no worry, no dispute on who owes what.

Note with the Apple case, however, that Ireland is actively fighting against this ruling. It seems quite bizzare that the EU is ruling that Apple owes Irish tax authorities money which Ireland is saying is not the case.

And unfair.

Why is it unfair?

Suppose tomorrow the U.S. signs and ratifies a treaty agreeing to imprison people for whatever the U.N. defines as hate speech. On Saturday the U.N. issues a ruling saying blaming religion for the Middle East's conflicts is hate speech. On Sunday Congress passes a law against it. On Monday the U.N. notifies the U.S. that you broke the law last year and takes the U.S. before the World Court for failure to uphold its treaty obligations. On Tuesday the U.S. points out that its ex post facto. On Wednesday the court rules for the U.N. On Thursday the FBI arrests you. Fair or unfair?

 

[ksen]

I don't know about VAT but sales taxes are considered extremely regressive. If you care at all about income inequality, which you may not I don't know, then this is not the type of tax you should be championing.

http://www.citylab.com/work/2015/01...get-the-poor-and-widen-the-income-gap/384643/

This is bullshit which always get repeated over and over again.
Poor pay same amount of taxes regardless of how it's paid, be it directly through sales tax or through income of Walmart owners which they don't pay anyway, cause they use these tax havens.

ur post is bullshit

 

[Harry Bosch]

Why is it unfair?

I don't know about VAT but sales taxes are considered extremely regressive. If you care at all about income inequality, which you may not I don't know, then this is not the type of tax you should be championing.

http://www.citylab.com/work/2015/01...get-the-poor-and-widen-the-income-gap/384643/

Federal taxes are directly passed onto the consumer, just like sales taxes.

 

[barbos]

This is bullshit which always get repeated over and over again.
Poor pay same amount of taxes regardless of how it's paid, be it directly through sales tax or through income of Walmart owners which they don't pay anyway, cause they use these tax havens.

ur post is bullshit

No, yours is.

 

[barbos]

I don't know about VAT but sales taxes are considered extremely regressive. If you care at all about income inequality, which you may not I don't know, then this is not the type of tax you should be championing.

http://www.citylab.com/work/2015/01...get-the-poor-and-widen-the-income-gap/384643/

Federal taxes are directly passed onto the consumer, just like sales taxes.

Exactly!

 

[ksen]

I don't know about VAT but sales taxes are considered extremely regressive. If you care at all about income inequality, which you may not I don't know, then this is not the type of tax you should be championing.

http://www.citylab.com/work/2015/01...get-the-poor-and-widen-the-income-gap/384643/

Federal taxes are directly passed onto the consumer, just like sales taxes.

Then why are corporations bitching about their taxes if they aren't the ones that pay them?

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[dismal]

Federal taxes are directly passed onto the consumer, just like sales taxes.

Then why are corporations bitching about their taxes if they aren't the ones that pay them?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Hmm, maybe it's because if they have to pass taxes on to consumers their products cost more and they sell less of them*.

*They may be the sort of troglodytes that believe the law of demand actually holds.

 

[ksen]

Then why are corporations bitching about their taxes if they aren't the ones that pay them?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Hmm, maybe it's because if they have to pass taxes on to consumers their products cost more and they sell less of them.

Same would apply to sales taxes and yet that seems to be the preferred taxation method. So that argument doesn't appear that valid.

 

[dismal]

Hmm, maybe it's because if they have to pass taxes on to consumers their products cost more and they sell less of them.

Same would apply to sales taxes and yet that seems to be the preferred taxation method. So that argument doesn't appear that valid.

Corporations support sales taxes?

Cite?

 

[barbos]

Federal taxes are directly passed onto the consumer, just like sales taxes.

Then why are corporations bitching about their taxes if they aren't the ones that pay them?

Same reason you are bitching, because they are wrong.

 

[Elixir]

This is one of the reasons why I advocate doing away with the corporate income tax entirely and to tax the stockholders on the profits earned as if they are the owners of the company, i.e. on total profits whether distributed or retained, and no matter where the profits are earned.

I don't begin to understand this stuff, but I know that as a major stockholder of a fast-growing small business, I pay taxes on corporate profits, even if those "profits" are reinvested toward growth of the Company. For several years I have paid much more in taxes than I have taken home.
Taxing publicly traded stock holdings would do a number of great things in my relatively naive opinion. It definitely grates on me that Apple can get away with this shit, even though they don't "need" to, while I'm living hand-to-mouth for participating in what is called "the engine of economic growth" (small business). It's a powerful disincentive for anyone considering entrepreneurial enterprise.

 

[dismal]

This is one of the reasons why I advocate doing away with the corporate income tax entirely and to tax the stockholders on the profits earned as if they are the owners of the company, i.e. on total profits whether distributed or retained, and no matter where the profits are earned.

I don't begin to understand this stuff, but I know that as a major stockholder of a fast-growing small business, I pay taxes on corporate profits, even if those "profits" are reinvested toward growth of the Company. For several years I have paid much more in taxes than I have taken home.
Taxing publicly traded stock holdings would do a number of great things in my relatively naive opinion. It definitely grates on me that Apple can get away with this shit, even though they don't "need" to, while I'm living hand-to-mouth for participating in what is called "the engine of economic growth" (small business). It's a powerful disincentive for anyone considering entrepreneurial enterprise.

You should want to pay even more taxes. Don't you like roads and firemen?

 

[Elixir]

I don't begin to understand this stuff, but I know that as a major stockholder of a fast-growing small business, I pay taxes on corporate profits, even if those "profits" are reinvested toward growth of the Company. For several years I have paid much more in taxes than I have taken home.
Taxing publicly traded stock holdings would do a number of great things in my relatively naive opinion. It definitely grates on me that Apple can get away with this shit, even though they don't "need" to, while I'm living hand-to-mouth for participating in what is called "the engine of economic growth" (small business). It's a powerful disincentive for anyone considering entrepreneurial enterprise.

You should want to pay even more taxes. Don't you like roads and firemen?

Yeah I love firemen especially (they buy a lot of stuff from us). Unfortunately, the current tax burden will probably mean that soon I will have to sell out to a larger entity that can afford to hide profits overseas. And since the Fed has been taxing me into submission for so long, a lot of the ACTUAL profits I'll see from a sale will be "tax pre-paid" - so firemen and roads will get nothing at that point, or going forward with the new owners. The US is fucking itself in the ass in order to line the pockets of billionaires.

 

[dismal]

You should want to pay even more taxes. Don't you like roads and firemen?

Yeah I love firemen especially (they buy a lot of stuff from us). Unfortunately, the current tax burden will probably mean that soon I will have to sell out to a larger entity that can afford to hide profits overseas. And since the Fed has been taxing me into submission for so long, a lot of the ACTUAL profits I'll see from a sale will be "tax pre-paid" - so firemen and roads will get nothing at that point, or going forward with the new owners. The US is fucking itself in the ass in order to line the pockets of billionaires.

You have to pay US taxes on US profits no matter where you are located.

 

[Elixir]

Yeah I love firemen especially (they buy a lot of stuff from us). Unfortunately, the current tax burden will probably mean that soon I will have to sell out to a larger entity that can afford to hide profits overseas. And since the Fed has been taxing me into submission for so long, a lot of the ACTUAL profits I'll see from a sale will be "tax pre-paid" - so firemen and roads will get nothing at that point, or going forward with the new owners. The US is fucking itself in the ass in order to line the pockets of billionaires.

You have to pay US taxes on US profits no matter where you are located.

A larger entity could ensure that most if not all profits are NOT "US profits", regardless of where the products were bought or consumed. Just like Apple...

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

What's hilarious is that anyone could actually believe that Ireland is "furious" over having to receive an extra $13 billion in tax revenue.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ireland-considering-keeping-13-billion-apple-tax-windfall-cabinet-decision-delayed-2016-9

aa

 

[SimpleDon]

Taxes should be paid where money are being made.
Corporate taxes should be set to zero or at a low enough level to make it unattractive to move to tax havens.
Increase sales or VAT tax. I mean Google not paying taxes in countries where they sell their ads is stupid
The whole thing is stupid, they are using ancient tax laws which were created when there were no such things as tax havens. They should have immediately changed the law the moment that bullshit was invented.

Why would the taxes have to be paid in the country that the money is made? If you can come up with a reason for this and a way to do it, I will consider it. Clearly, neither is the case now. I am proposing to tax the owners of the businesses on the profits made.

Your statements on our current taxation system not taking into account the current economy are spot on.

Whether we use income taxes or consumption taxes like VAT or sales taxes is a question of how you want to manage the economy. We actually need both. Neither is better than the other, both impact the economy but in different ways. Neither is the right solution for the economy all of the time.

Income taxes are paid primarily by the high earners. Consumption (and earnings, i.e. FICA) taxes are paid primarily by everyone else. How we balance the two impacts the economy more than any other single factor that we have control over, including interest rates and OMO, i.e. bond sales or purchases.

This balance of methods of taxation impacts the balance between inflation and deflation, between savings and debt, the distribution of incomes between the rich and the poor, the balance between wages and profits, between aggregate supply and demand.

 

[dismal]

What's hilarious is that anyone could actually believe that Ireland is "furious" over having to receive an extra $13 billion in tax revenue.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ireland-considering-keeping-13-billion-apple-tax-windfall-cabinet-decision-delayed-2016-9

aa

I know this might be hard to imagine for those who think the government should grab whatever it can whenever it can (worked so well in Venezuela), but maybe they are worried it will cost them more in the long run.

- - - Updated - - -

You have to pay US taxes on US profits no matter where you are located.

A larger entity could ensure that most if not all profits are NOT "US profits", regardless of where the products were bought or consumed. Just like Apple...

You are aware the IRS checks for those sorts of things?