Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?

Scholars think so and so do I.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Scriptures warn against idol worship yet that is exactly what Christian and Muslims do.

If you can talk about or name your God, you are an idolater. Do you realize that?

God is often thought of as an ideal.

I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

Agnostics seem to be the only ones who are not idolaters because, like Gnostic Christians, they do not mind saying, I don’t know or only speaking of things they know to be facts.

Regards
DL

 

[James Brown]

I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

I do? I would far prefer that there be an omnipotent God watching over me, guiding my life, and preparing me for a higher existence. But I have to accept reality as it is, not as I might prefer.

Agnostics seem to be the only ones who are not idolaters because, like Gnostic Christians, they do not mind saying, I don’t know or only speaking of things they know to be facts.

A person can be both an agnostic ("I don't know if God exists") and an atheist ("I don't believe that God exists.") I know that a person can be that way because I am one.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

I do? I would far prefer that there be an omnipotent God watching over me, guiding my life, and preparing me for a higher existence. But I have to accept reality as it is, not as I might prefer.

Agnostics seem to be the only ones who are not idolaters because, like Gnostic Christians, they do not mind saying, I don’t know or only speaking of things they know to be facts.

A person can be both an agnostic ("I don't know if God exists") and an atheist ("I don't believe that God exists.") I know that a person can be that way because I am one.

To your first.
To prefer a supernatural God is to prefer an eternal life after death, generally, and one would have to forget that an eternal life would be a high level curse that would leave you wishing for a real death thanks to boredom.

To your last.
The fact that you believe something about an unknowable God would say that you are not agnostic but a full fledged idol worshiper of your belief. At least that is the way I interpret the terms used.

Religions came up with that stupid word, faith, to get around the linguistic meaning of belief.

Faith does not need facts. Belief does.

Regards
DL

 

[abaddon]

This word "God" sure gets idolized a lot.

So, anyway, what's wrong with idolatry? I guess that it creates conflicts? So, in what way is the notion "I have superior 'fact-based' beliefs to the idolators" not grounds for conflict?

Karen Armstrong uses crusaders as an example of zealots who think they know the will of God, and that will is they should wage battle with other idol worshipers. Then she comments that "obviously" the mysterious mind of God doesn't will this. How does she know?

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

This word "God" sure gets idolized a lot.

Indeed.

So, anyway, what's wrong with idolatry?

It locks you into a thinking pattern and that is anathema to an evolving mind.

I guess that it creates conflicts?

Against other belief systems. Yes.
That is why tribes fight each other.
Religions, at their roots, are created to assuage our tribal instincts and need for fellowship.

So, in what way is the notion "I have superior 'fact-based' beliefs to the idolaters" not grounds for conflict?

They are and always have been.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

Karen Armstrong uses crusaders as an example of zealots who think they know the will of God, and that will is they should wage battle with other idol worshipers. Then she comments that "obviously" the mysterious mind of God doesn't will this. How does she know?

She, I think, like most, other than idol worshipers of imaginary supernatural Gods, is admitting that nothing can be know of the imaginary supernatural realm.

Regards
DL

 

[James Brown]

To prefer a supernatural God is to prefer an eternal life after death, generally, and one would have to forget that an eternal life would be a high level curse that would leave you wishing for a real death thanks to boredom.

To your last.
The fact that you believe something about an unknowable God would say that you are not agnostic but a full fledged idol worshiper of your belief. At least that is the way I interpret the terms used.

Okay. Sure.

 

[bilby]

Idolatry could be a problem for those theists whose religion prohibits it.

But it cannot be a problem for atheists, who are under no such prohibition. So why should I care whether or not I am an idolater? It's of no interest to me at all as an atheist. Certainly I cannot believe that being accused of it is in any way insulting or worrying - unless some theist plans to set me on fire for it (and they can likely find plenty of other excuses for that, starting with atheism itself).

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Idolatry could be a problem for those theists whose religion prohibits it.

But it cannot be a problem for atheists, who are under no such prohibition. So why should I care whether or not I am an idolater? It's of no interest to me at all as an atheist. Certainly I cannot believe that being accused of it is in any way insulting or worrying - unless some theist plans to set me on fire for it (and they can likely find plenty of other excuses for that, starting with atheism itself).

I agree that the problem should be more important to theists, but they do not care, which can be said for a lot of their theology which they are ignoring. Like peaceful coexistence while they use Inquisitions and Jihads.

I have found that many atheists deny that they are mentally just like the religious in their idol worship of their ideology. That is why I included them in the O.P.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

To prefer a supernatural God is to prefer an eternal life after death, generally, and one would have to forget that an eternal life would be a high level curse that would leave you wishing for a real death thanks to boredom.

To your last.
The fact that you believe something about an unknowable God would say that you are not agnostic but a full fledged idol worshiper of your belief. At least that is the way I interpret the terms used.

Okay. Sure.

Pleased that you seem to agree.

Regards
DL

 

[Eldarion Lathria]

Gnostic christians are among the idolaters because they worship gnosis, and the void. And what if they are idolaters? Why should that matter?

Eldarion Lathria

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Gnostic christians are among the idolaters because they worship gnosis, and the void. And what if they are idolaters? Why should that matter?

Eldarion Lathria

Gnosis is a tool and we do not worship tools.

I do not know what you mean by void but I am surprised how you would think that we esoteric ecumenists and perpetual seekers would worship anything or anyone.

You do not seem to know much about Gnostic Christianity.

Perhaps knowing who my God is and why might help.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our God "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.


The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that lazy Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded

Joseph Campbell shows the same esoteric ecumenist idea in this link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

The bible just plainly says to put away the things of children. The supernatural.

Regards
DL

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?

Scholars think so and so do I.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Scriptures warn against idol worship yet that is exactly what Christian and Muslims do.

If you can talk about or name your God, you are an idolater. Do you realize that?

God is often thought of as an ideal.

I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

Agnostics seem to be the only ones who are not idolaters because, like Gnostic Christians, they do not mind saying, I don’t know or only speaking of things they know to be facts.

Regards
DL

Are you implying there is something wrong with idolatry?

 

[Keith&Co.]

If you can talk about or name your God, you are an idolater. Do you realize that?

Don't think so... A religious idol is an object that's directly worshiped instead of the god it represents. The way Moore treats his statue of the 10C, for example. If God is a n entity, then His name is a label FOR what is being worshiped,, not an object being worshiped.directly.

The fact that you reject their idea of god doesn't turn the name into an idol.

atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

that's just meaningless word play, conflating different uses of the word idol.

And, really, accusing atheists of idolatry is about as compelling as accusing sailors of not knowing how to drive a tank...

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Are Christians, Muslims and atheists idolaters?

Scholars think so and so do I.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Scriptures warn against idol worship yet that is exactly what Christian and Muslims do.

If you can talk about or name your God, you are an idolater. Do you realize that?

God is often thought of as an ideal.

I think that atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

Agnostics seem to be the only ones who are not idolaters because, like Gnostic Christians, they do not mind saying, I don’t know or only speaking of things they know to be facts.

Regards
DL

Are you implying there is something wrong with idolatry?

Yes, when one allows it to close the mind to a new and improved idol.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

If you can talk about or name your God, you are an idolater. Do you realize that?

Don't think so... A religious idol is an object that's directly worshiped instead of the god it represents. The way Moore treats his statue of the 10C, for example. If God is a n entity, then His name is a label FOR what is being worshiped,, not an object being worshiped.directly.

The fact that you reject their idea of god doesn't turn the name into an idol.

atheists would also fit into the idolater description because they idolize the notion that there is no God and have chosen that as their ideal.

that's just meaningless word play, conflating different uses of the word idol.

And, really, accusing atheists of idolatry is about as compelling as accusing sailors of not knowing how to drive a tank...

Have you noted how the dictionaries are now defining gnostic atheists, agnostic atheists, gnostic agnostics etc.?

It is getting really stupid.

Lets go to logic then.

What is idolized is what you hold supreme. You hold your belief system, whatever it is, supreme. You are an idolater.

Break that logic trail if you can.

This link might drive my point home. Ignore the tail end preaching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... kZg1ZflpJs

Regards
DL

 

[Keith&Co.]

Have you noted how the dictionaries are now defining gnostic atheists, agnostic atheists, gnostic agnostics etc.?

Wow. Words. People use words to convey ideas, and dictionaries track the ideas being exchanged. What a concept.

What is idolized is what you hold supreme. You hold your belief system, whatever it is, supreme. You are an idolater.

But that's wrong. First off, holding anything supreme is not idolatry.
Idolatry is holding the stand-in supreme. Worshiping the symbol over the fact. That's the interference, thinking that the Cross, the statue, the altar is to be venerated and losing track of that which it's meant to emulate.

So if I DID hold my belief system supreme, then I am not idolizing my belief system.

Second, I don't hold my belief system supreme. I'm an atheist because I haven't seen any compelling reason to adopt any belief system.

Break that logic trail if you can.

Easy. You're just making shit up and misusing words. I reject your shallow understanding of the language, here.

This link might drive my point home.

Meh. Your point is an iron fist inside a woolen mitten.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

So if I DID hold my belief system supreme, then I am not idolizing my belief system.

Second, I don't hold my belief system supreme. I'm an atheist because I haven't seen any compelling reason to adopt any belief system.

If you do not hold your belief system supreme, whose system do you hold supreme?

Regards
DL

 

[Keith&Co.]

So if I DID hold my belief system supreme, then I am not idolizing my belief system.

Second, I don't hold my belief system supreme. I'm an atheist because I haven't seen any compelling reason to adopt any belief system.

If you do not hold your belief system supreme, whose system do you hold supreme?

Your basic assumptions are flawed.
And that's not the salient detail of my post.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

So if I DID hold my belief system supreme, then I am not idolizing my belief system.

Second, I don't hold my belief system supreme. I'm an atheist because I haven't seen any compelling reason to adopt any belief system.

If you do not hold your belief system supreme, whose system do you hold supreme?

Your basic assumptions are flawed.
And that's not the salient detail of my post.

It was to me.

I understand why you refuse to answer.

Regards

DL

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Modern Gnostic Christians name our God "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.


The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that lazy Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Huh. It sounds like somebody is engaging in idolatry by holding his belief system supreme.