Are people not as stupid as we think?

[GenesisNemesis]

The United States public's opinion of the invasion of Iraq has changed significantly since the years preceding the incursion. For various reasons, mostly related to the unexpected consequences of the invasion, as well as misinformation provided by US authorities, the US public’s perspective on its government’s choice to initiate an offensive is increasingly negative. Before the invasion in March 2003, polls showed 47-60% of the US public supported an invasion, dependent on U.N. approval.[1] According to the same poll retaken in April 2007, 58% of the participants stated that the initial attack was a mistake.

Link.

Sure, perhaps there was no reason to support the war to begin with, but it took only four years for public opinion to shift, and this was prior to Obama's presidency. It might be only one example, but the number is significantly higher than I expected.

 

[rousseau]

I'd be more convinced at the intelligence of the American population if they overwhelmingly favoured not going into the Iraq war in the first place.

The public is usually reactionary, and most often makes the wrong decision.

 

[J842P]

I'd be more convinced at the intelligence of the American population if they overwhelmingly favoured not going into the Iraq war in the first place.

The public is usually reactionary, and most often makes the wrong decision.

This is my opinion as well.

 

[Sabine Grant]

I'd be more convinced at the intelligence of the American population if they overwhelmingly favoured not going into the Iraq war in the first place.

The public is usually reactionary, and most often makes the wrong decision.

Keep in mind though that the American public was still under the trauma of 9/11.A trauma which was duly exploited by the GWB Administration to promote a general climate of paranoia with mantras such as " Irak being a threat to National Security" "mushrooms over US cities" (referring to the use of nuclear weapons allegedly falling in the hands of terrorist factions and allegedly in Saddam's possession). When people are driven by the fear of their safety being compromised (especially when the US media pounds on safety being compromised), rationally centered responses are going to lack.

I see the general support at the time for a military intervention in Irak as the product of some sort of collective PTSD induced by the 9/11 trauma. Which I do not equate to "stupidity".

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, having a little over half of the US population realize that the biggest mistake in their country's recent history was a mistake twelve years after the fact isn't actually some kind of bright light for the nation.

 

[Tristan Scott]

I Agree with Sabine- plus there was also a lot of disinformation, much of which was fomented by Saddam himself. He was still working under the dellusion that if we thought he had WMDs we would be reluctant to attack him. Anyway all of this added up to a majority of people supporting the attack. But, this doesn't let anyone in the Bush admin off the hook-we are a Republic and these people are supposed to know better and not react to public opinion-indeed, what they did was influence public opinion by using Powell, a trusted figure, to make their case, get the poll numbers up to push congress into giving Bush the powers required to invade. His entire team was still convinced that Saddam was the real threat-not AlQaeda.

 

[rousseau]

I'd be more convinced at the intelligence of the American population if they overwhelmingly favoured not going into the Iraq war in the first place.

The public is usually reactionary, and most often makes the wrong decision.

Keep in mind though that the American public was still under the trauma of 9/11.A trauma which was duly exploited by the GWB Administration to promote a general climate of paranoia with mantras such as " Irak being a threat to National Security" "mushrooms over US cities" (referring to the use of nuclear weapons allegedly falling in the hands of terrorist factions and allegedly in Saddam's possession). When people are driven by the fear of their safety being compromised (especially when the US media pounds on safety being compromised), rationally centered responses are going to lack.

I see the general support at the time for a military intervention in Irak as the product of some sort of collective PTSD induced by the 9/11 trauma. Which I do not equate to "stupidity".

Regardless of the circumstances of the situation the country made a bad decision given the information that was available, information that was mostly made available by a dunce of a president that they themselves voted in.

If you are responsible for one of the biggest decisions in history and tens of thousands of people's lives 'trauma' is not an excuse for poor decision making. The US had the opportunity to make a positive response and they failed.

The thing that this is not is surprising. Human Beings are not infinitely rational or anywhere close to it so I wouldn't have predicted any other course of action. When people get hit they hit back, unfortunately for the thousands of dead Iraqi's the country hitting back had the most power in the world.

 

[laughing dog]

Ya, having a little over half of the US population realize that the biggest mistake in their country's recent history was a mistake twelve years after the fact isn't actually some kind of bright light for the nation.

Stop being a glass half empty kind of person. It is certainly a brighter light than still over half thinking it was a good idea.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, having a little over half of the US population realize that the biggest mistake in their country's recent history was a mistake twelve years after the fact isn't actually some kind of bright light for the nation.

Stop being a glass half empty kind of person. It is certainly a brighter light than still over half thinking it was a good idea.

Fair point.

 

[Bronzeage]

The United States public's opinion of the invasion of Iraq has changed significantly since the years preceding the incursion. For various reasons, mostly related to the unexpected consequences of the invasion, as well as misinformation provided by US authorities, the US public’s perspective on its government’s choice to initiate an offensive is increasingly negative. Before the invasion in March 2003, polls showed 47-60% of the US public supported an invasion, dependent on U.N. approval.[1] According to the same poll retaken in April 2007, 58% of the participants stated that the initial attack was a mistake.

Link.

Sure, perhaps there was no reason to support the war to begin with, but it took only four years for public opinion to shift, and this was prior to Obama's presidency. It might be only one example, but the number is significantly higher than I expected.

I remember a discussion on another forum, several years ago, with a fairly sensible conservative person. I called the Iraq invasion a "fuck up." It was a fuck up from the start and fucked up in execution. He responded with, "Who could have known the Iraqis would start fighting among themselves after we took down Saddam Hussein?"

I said, "If an out of work car mechanic in Baton Rouge knew what was going to happen, why couldn't someone in Washington DC see it, too?"

As they say, nothing succeeds like success. If today there was a functioning democracy in Iraq, which guaranteed civil rights for all it's citizens, everyone would think the invasion was the work of geniuses. Very few miserable failures are viewed as great ideas in hindsight.

 

[J842P]

The United States public's opinion of the invasion of Iraq has changed significantly since the years preceding the incursion. For various reasons, mostly related to the unexpected consequences of the invasion, as well as misinformation provided by US authorities, the US public’s perspective on its government’s choice to initiate an offensive is increasingly negative. Before the invasion in March 2003, polls showed 47-60% of the US public supported an invasion, dependent on U.N. approval.[1] According to the same poll retaken in April 2007, 58% of the participants stated that the initial attack was a mistake.

Link.

Sure, perhaps there was no reason to support the war to begin with, but it took only four years for public opinion to shift, and this was prior to Obama's presidency. It might be only one example, but the number is significantly higher than I expected.

I remember a discussion on another forum, several years ago, with a fairly sensible conservative person. I called the Iraq invasion a "fuck up." It was a fuck up from the start and fucked up in execution. He responded with, "Who could have known the Iraqis would start fighting among themselves after we took down Saddam Hussein?"

I said, "If an out of work car mechanic in Baton Rouge knew what was going to happen, why couldn't someone in Washington DC see it, too?"

As they say, nothing succeeds like success. If today there was a functioning democracy in Iraq, which guaranteed civil rights for all it's citizens, everyone would think the invasion was the work of geniuses. Very few miserable failures are viewed as great ideas in hindsight.

Plenty of people in DC knew exactly what was going to happen. Unfortunately, a couple of people who didn't know or didn't care were able to convince the one guy who really mattered that it was going to be a rip-roaring success.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

I don't think the US's world image will recover for this generation after what the US did post-9/11. 9/11 caused a ton of sympathy to pour into the US, and the US government pissed it all away with irrational and hostile actions. 9/11 was a criminal terrorist act, and the US treated it like a military attack. The US should have sent operatives and diplomats into Afghanistan, attempting to cooperate in bringing in the terrorists, and if that failed, then and only then take military measures against Afghanistan. A massive propaganda campaign should have been taken on, not to project hatred on the middle east, but to get sympathy and cooperation with the whole world. Everything was done ass backwards and the US showed that it both can't be relied on to be rational and can't be trusted.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, everyone was on the US's side after 9/11 and they could have used that goodwill to do anything. What they chose to do was to start two of the stupidest and most badly planned wars in recent history. They sacrificed any claim that they had to be a moral leader for the world and a government that can be trusted. Their actions since have served to do nothing except reinforce that.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The United States public's opinion of the invasion of Iraq has changed significantly since the years preceding the incursion. For various reasons, mostly related to the unexpected consequences of the invasion, as well as misinformation provided by US authorities, the US public’s perspective on its government’s choice to initiate an offensive is increasingly negative. Before the invasion in March 2003, polls showed 47-60% of the US public supported an invasion, dependent on U.N. approval.[1] According to the same poll retaken in April 2007, 58% of the participants stated that the initial attack was a mistake.

Link.

Sure, perhaps there was no reason to support the war to begin with, but it took only four years for public opinion to shift, and this was prior to Obama's presidency. It might be only one example, but the number is significantly higher than I expected.

I remember a discussion on another forum, several years ago, with a fairly sensible conservative person. I called the Iraq invasion a "fuck up." It was a fuck up from the start and fucked up in execution. He responded with, "Who could have known the Iraqis would start fighting among themselves after we took down Saddam Hussein?"

I said, "If an out of work car mechanic in Baton Rouge knew what was going to happen, why couldn't someone in Washington DC see it, too?"

As they say, nothing succeeds like success. If today there was a functioning democracy in Iraq, which guaranteed civil rights for all it's citizens, everyone would think the invasion was the work of geniuses. Very few miserable failures are viewed as great ideas in hindsight.

Plenty of people in DC knew exactly what was going to happen. Unfortunately, a couple of people who didn't know or didn't care were able to convince the one guy who really mattered that it was going to be a rip-roaring success.

If your talking about Shrub he was just a dunce like all the other war mongers who wanted to invade. I don't think he needed to be convinced.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Ya, having a little over half of the US population realize that the biggest mistake in their country's recent history was a mistake twelve years after the fact isn't actually some kind of bright light for the nation.

Well, since that isn't what actually happened, your point is moot. A sizeable fraction new it was a mistake before it even happened. Now there's just more people who realize it that push the number over the half way point. Not that that's a ringing endorsement for the cultural intelligence of the Americans, but it's better than what you were implying.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, having a little over half of the US population realize that the biggest mistake in their country's recent history was a mistake twelve years after the fact isn't actually some kind of bright light for the nation.

Well, since that isn't what actually happened, your point is moot. A sizeable fraction new it was a mistake before it even happened. Now there's just more people who realize it that push the number over the half way point. Not that that's a ringing endorsement for the cultural intelligence of the Americans, but it's better than what you were implying.

Ya, you're part of a country that re-elected Bush after all of this. You don't get to do anything beyond hang your head in shame.

 

[braces_for_impact]

No, they are dumber than you can imagine.

 

[Narapoia]

I'd be more convinced at the intelligence of the American population if they overwhelmingly favoured not going into the Iraq war in the first place.

The public is usually reactionary, and most often makes the wrong decision.

Keep in mind though that the American public was still under the trauma of 9/11.A trauma which was duly exploited by the GWB Administration to promote a general climate of paranoia with mantras such as " Irak being a threat to National Security" "mushrooms over US cities" (referring to the use of nuclear weapons allegedly falling in the hands of terrorist factions and allegedly in Saddam's possession). When people are driven by the fear of their safety being compromised (especially when the US media pounds on safety being compromised), rationally centered responses are going to lack.

I see the general support at the time for a military intervention in Irak as the product of some sort of collective PTSD induced by the 9/11 trauma. Which I do not equate to "stupidity".

Regardless of the circumstances of the situation the country made a bad decision given the information that was available, information that was mostly made available by a dunce of a president that they themselves voted in.

If you are responsible for one of the biggest decisions in history and tens of thousands of people's lives 'trauma' is not an excuse for poor decision making. The US had the opportunity to make a positive response and they failed.

The thing that this is not is surprising. Human Beings are not infinitely rational or anywhere close to it so I wouldn't have predicted any other course of action. When people get hit they hit back, unfortunately for the thousands of dead Iraqi's the country hitting back had the most power in the world.

The 'bad information' was so ridiculously flawed and obviously, blatantly designed support the 'new American Century' agenda that I consider accepting it to be a gross act of stupidity. So yeah, it's great that more people in the US realise what a clusterfuck Iraq has been but really if a majority could not see through the bullshit in the beginning to oppose it before it happened, like the rest of the world, then I am really not about to make any concessions on the general level of stupid out there.

From the link:

Opinion polls showed that the population of nearly all countries opposed a war without UN mandate, and that the view of the United States as a danger to world peace had significantly increased.[68][69][70]

 

[TV and credit cards]

Public perception is shaped by the media. For example:
Eight Accounts of the World Trade Center and Pentagon Attacks. Personally, I like the London Times report.
Embedded journalist may have had a bit to do with it. Honestly, were the shoe on another nation's foot, would the numbers be much different?
My opinion was/is patriotism and the pentagon's control of the media in Iraq was largely responsible.

 

[rousseau]

In my experience, even the people who are amongst the brightest I know are still horribly misguided or otherwise lacking insight about a lot of stuff. Once you get down to the average joe you have a standard "able to exist in society fine, won't be winning many debates" person, when you go down a level from there it gets pretty ugly. I can probably count on one hand the number of people I know IRL who I could have a reasonable discussion about politics with.

It's not that everyone, everywhere is dumb, but rather most don't know enough about enough things to piece it all together into reasonable frameworks.