Arrested woman shoots at police ...

[Derec]

her family be like "not her fault".

Police say Christian, 26, fired at officers first, after escaping from handcuffs in the back of the police cruiser. Christian’s mother and grandfather said she did not deserve to die and that APD failed to follow proper procedure.
[..]
Atlanta Police Chief George Turner said Friday that Christian managed to free one hand while handcuffed and used a stolen gun to fire three shots at two officers. The officers were not hit, and instead returned fire, hitting Alexia Christian in the car, parked near Underground Atlanta.

Christian, a mother of two, died after being taken to Grady Memorial Hospital.

But the family thinks she bears no responsibility even though she chose to shoot the gun at the police.

Lucius Christian, of southwest Atlanta, questioned whether his granddaughter actually had a gun.

“She shouldn’t have, if she did,” he said. “If she did, it was their fault. It wasn’t hers. She was in city police custody. The minute they put handcuffs on her, the minute she entered the back seat of that police car, she was in police custody.”

Family of woman killed after firing at APD questions procedures

Sure, they should have patted her down better. But with her being a woman, male police officers are not allowed to perform a thorough search. I think this policy needs to change.

APD policy requires male officers to pat women suspects "with the back of their hand" in the presence of other witnesses. Turner says that extensive body searches of women suspects are supposed to be conducted by an on-duty female police officer before the suspect is transported to jail. A female officer was unable to respond to yesterday's scene given how quickly the shooting happened, Sgt. Gregory Lyon said.

What happened in the death of Alexia Christian?

But regardless of procedures, the primary responsibility and fault is still with a person who chooses to shoot at police.

I am just glad she missed.

Edited to add: She seems quite an escape artist.
Woman shot by APD had history of handcuff escape

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Are you scared a woman is going to shoot you one day, Derec?

 

[Derec]

Are you scared a woman is going to shoot you one day, Derec?

Are you scared an evil white man or a black 'plantation overseer' will shoot you?

But in reality, the reason I knew of this case is because I live here.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, once you start firing at the cops, it's your own damn fault if you end up dead. It doesn't matter how she got the gun or what procedures the police messed up. I don't blame her family for making stupid statements about how it's somebody else's fault, since I have no expectation for them to act rationally while trying to deal with the death of a family member, but nobody else should blame anyone but her.

 

[thebeave]

Ya, once you start firing at the cops, it's your own damn fault if you end up dead. It doesn't matter how she got the gun or what procedures the police messed up. I don't blame her family for making stupid statements about how it's somebody else's fault, since I have no expectation for them to act rationally while trying to deal with the death of a family member, but nobody else should blame anyone but her.

Careful, young man. You are dangerously close to "blaming the victim". Just don't go there if you know what's good for you.

 

[laughing dog]

I agree that once you start firing at the police, you are a legitimate target. In this case, that does not absolve the police of their responsibility to properly do their job. The police clearly have some real explaining to do here.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, once you start firing at the cops, it's your own damn fault if you end up dead. It doesn't matter how she got the gun or what procedures the police messed up. I don't blame her family for making stupid statements about how it's somebody else's fault, since I have no expectation for them to act rationally while trying to deal with the death of a family member, but nobody else should blame anyone but her.

Careful, young man. You are dangerously close to "blaming the victim". Just don't go there if you know what's good for you.

No, I specifically said that the police weren't to blame. They made some mistakes, sure, but that doesn't mean that they're at fault when someone starts shooting at them.

 

[Derec]

I agree that once you start firing at the police, you are a legitimate target. In this case, that does not absolve the police of their responsibility to properly do their job.

Cops are between a rock and hard place here. Fail to find a gun and something like this happens. Search her properly, and you are in the violation of the sexist policy prohibiting male cops from properly searching females.

The police clearly have some real explaining to do here.

The culprit seems to be the policy that allows male police officers to only do cursory pat downs of female suspects.

 

[Duke Leto]

Wayne LaPierre:

This wouldn't have happened if the woman had more guns!

 

[Eldarion Lathria]

She was an aspirin' rapper, and she was turnin' her life around, and she was on her way home from church!

Eldarion Lathria

 

[dismal]

Are you scared a woman is going to shoot you one day, Derec?

This thread is about Derec?

 

[laughing dog]

Cops are between a rock and hard place here. Fail to find a gun and something like this happens. Search her properly, and you are in the violation of the sexist policy prohibiting male cops from properly searching females.

There is no evidence that such a policy exists here nor is there any evidence at this point that the gun was not easily found with a cursory pat down nor is there any evidence at this point that she used her gun. At this point, you are literally making up excuses without regards to the facts.

The culprit seems to be the policy that allows male police officers to only do cursory pat downs of female suspects.

Assumes fact(s) not in evidence.

 

[arkirk]

So little information is given in this story one cannot say anything about it with any certainty. Why was she in the back of a police car, improperly handcuffed, poorly cleared of weapons? Did she look an officer in the eye? This whole story looks like shades of GREY to me with a distaff tint. It becomes important what their reason for detaining her was. If it was an arrest under false pretenses, it would make a difference.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So little information is given in this story one cannot say anything about it with any certainty. Why was she in the back of a police car, improperly handcuffed, poorly cleared of weapons? Did she look an officer in the eye? This whole story looks like shades of GREY to me with a distaff tint. It becomes important what their reason for detaining her was. If it was an arrest under false pretenses, it would make a difference.

Why would that make a difference? I'm pretty sure that being arrested under false pretenses doesn't give one the justification to shoot the arresting officers. Once she started firing, any malfeasance on their part became irrelevant and she was just someone who was firing a gun at the police, which makes it perfectly fine for them to shoot her back with better aim.

 

[arkirk]

So little information is given in this story one cannot say anything about it with any certainty. Why was she in the back of a police car, improperly handcuffed, poorly cleared of weapons? Did she look an officer in the eye? This whole story looks like shades of GREY to me with a distaff tint. It becomes important what their reason for detaining her was. If it was an arrest under false pretenses, it would make a difference.

Why would that make a difference? I'm pretty sure that being arrested under false pretenses doesn't give one the justification to shoot the arresting officers. Once she started firing, any malfeasance on their part became irrelevant and she was just someone who was firing a gun at the police, which makes it perfectly fine for them to shoot her back with better aim.

Considering what happens once one is out of sight in some facilities, there is just reason to assume that if you are innocent and taken to a private (though publicly financed) place you can end up with a severed spine. If you are deprived of your ability to defend yourself for no good reason and headed for god knows what, you may panic. Have you ever been arrested? Have you ever been swarmed by police? You may think these guys are really just good guys doing their job, but that might not be the case. There are crooked cops. There are killer cops. I agree that once the shooting starts, the cops get a justification for doing what they could have intended to do anyway. The relationship between minorities and cops is a twisted and very complicated thing. My comment was aimed not at justifying her shooting at the cops but rather at what can we make of this whole affair.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Are you scared a woman is going to shoot you one day, Derec?

This thread is about Derec?

Yes.

 

[Valjean]

I'm still wondering how she could fire three shots from the back seat without hitting anyone.

 

[bilby]

So little information is given in this story one cannot say anything about it with any certainty. Why was she in the back of a police car, improperly handcuffed, poorly cleared of weapons? Did she look an officer in the eye? This whole story looks like shades of GREY to me with a distaff tint. It becomes important what their reason for detaining her was. If it was an arrest under false pretenses, it would make a difference.

Why would that make a difference? I'm pretty sure that being arrested under false pretenses doesn't give one the justification to shoot the arresting officers. Once she started firing, any malfeasance on their part became irrelevant and she was just someone who was firing a gun at the police, which makes it perfectly fine for them to shoot her back with better aim.

I am reliably informed that the second amendment exists for the purpose of allowing US citizens to use deadly force against government agents who are unlawfully oppressing them. If she was wrongfully arrested, she had not only a right, but a duty to own and use a gun in her defense.

Your argument is only valid outside the US, where shooting at the police is the act of a suicidal lunatic, rather than that of an upstanding patriot.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Didn't deserve to die? She shouldn't have died because she shouldn't have been able to uncuff herself and then get a gun she had in her possession to fire at the cops in the first place. That she did do that pretty much disqualifies her from falling under the "doesn't deserve" category. What is incredible is that 1) she didn't hit (forget about kill) from point blank range and 2) they were able to return fire so quickly in such an awkward position. Chips fell where they did. The only person dead is the person that tried to kill an officer.

Cops are between a rock and hard place here. Fail to find a gun and something like this happens. Search her properly, and you are in the violation of the sexist policy prohibiting male cops from properly searching females.

Really? Or are you just extrapolating. Searching her for weapons is more about protecting themselves than anything else. These Officers fucked up royally. Not only not cuffing her appropriately, but not making certain she unarmed. They should be forced to go back to Police School or something and learn how to take people in to custody.

The police clearly have some real explaining to do here.

The culprit seems to be the policy that allows male police officers to only do cursory pat downs of female suspects.

Curious, where was she hiding the gun so that they couldn't find it with a cursory pat down?

 

[Derec]

There is no evidence that such a policy exists

No evidence except the Atlanta police chief's explicit statement to that effect.

here nor is there any evidence at this point that the gun was not easily found with a cursory pat down

I think it is more likely that they didn't search thoroughly because of the policy than that they missed an easily findable gun.

nor is there any evidence at this point that she used her gun.

Cops shot at themselves just to frame her? Do you really believe that?

At this point, you are literally making up excuses without regards to the facts.

No excuses. Even if the cops made a mistake when they missed the gun the blame still lies with the woman who shot at the police. Therefore, her family has no case against the police.

Assumes fact(s) not in evidence.

Bro, do you even read?