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AS DEFICIT EXPLODES, GOP DEMANDS EMERGENCY TAX CUT FOR THE RICH

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
Twenty senators have urged the Treasury to give the wealthy another tax cut via executive order.

A sitting U.S. president who can’t stop attacking black and brown people. A never-ending trade war that has necessitated more than one multibillion-dollar farm bailout. A humanitarian crisis on the border of his own state. These are just a handful of the many issues that Senator Ted Cruz could be focused on. Instead, he’s currently devoting his efforts to a much more important cause: demanding another tax cut for the rich, this time without Congress’s approval.

In a letter sent to Steve Mnuchin on Monday, the senator from Texas urged the Treasury Secretary to use his “authority” to index capital gains to inflation, a move that would almost exclusively benefit the mega-rich. Claiming, falsely, that the United States economy “has experienced historic levels of growth as a result of Congress and the current administration’s policies such as the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act,” Cruz insists that it is now crucial for the Treasury Department to adjust capital gains for inflation “so that everyday Americans can continue to enjoy better lives and livelihoods.” And by “everyday Americans,” he of course means (but doesn’t say) the spectacularly wealthy.
 

Xoxarle1

Junior Member
To misquote Homer, Donuts Tax Cuts, is there anything they don't solve?

I'm willing to believe they would deflect a meteor at this point. Or possibly not. But we won't know until we try.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
To misquote Homer, Donuts Tax Cuts, is there anything they don't solve?

I'm willing to believe they would deflect a meteor at this point. Or possibly not. But we won't know until we try.
Well if there was a meteor, they'd cut taxes on the poor, who'd spend the money on drugs and booze while the rich build their bunkers.
 

Half-Life

Banned

This is 100% true.

Name me one job where someone doesn't work for a rich owner.

I will wait patiently for your answer.
my dad owns a pharmacy.
He's not rich.

My sister works in a company owned by the workers. None of them are rich.
My wife us a public schoolteacher.


Your point?

You know what I meant, Keith

McDonald's? Rich owner.

711? Rich owner.

Burger King? Rich owner.

Starbucks? Rich owner.

Home Depot? Rich owner.

Benzel Busch? Rich owner.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
my dad owns a pharmacy.
He's not rich.

My sister works in a company owned by the workers. None of them are rich.
My wife us a public schoolteacher.


Your point?

You know what I meant, Keith
you always say that when i answer the question you literally asked.
Soory thrre are people who have jobs you never considered.
But still, what was you point dupposed to be?
That somehow, the existance of rich people in the economy means the party tgat prides itself on fiscal responsibility, whise president fucking PROMISED to reduce the natl. debt, is NOT whoring itself out to the rich at the cost of the nation's deficit?
 

Half-Life

Banned
my dad owns a pharmacy.
He's not rich.

My sister works in a company owned by the workers. None of them are rich.
My wife us a public schoolteacher.


Your point?

You know what I meant, Keith
you always say that when i answer the question you literally asked.
Soory thrre are people who have jobs you never considered.
But still, what was you point dupposed to be?
That somehow, the existance of rich people in the economy means the party tgat prides itself on fiscal responsibility, whise president fucking PROMISED to reduce the natl. debt, is NOT whoring itself out to the rich at the cost of the nation's deficit?

Poor people don't create jobs for themselves, Keith. They get them from rich people who open businesses..

When Bill Gates started Microsoft, how many jobs did he create?

When Steve Jobs started Apple, how many jobs did he create?

When Zuckerberg started Facebook, how many jobs did he create?

Competition in the free market is the best thing about capitalism, Keith.
 

Half-Life

Banned
Poor people don't create jobs for themselves, Keith. They get them from rich people who open businesses..
i gave you three jobs in my family alone.
Identify three rich people who were necessary for those jobs?

Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.

You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
Poor people don't create jobs for themselves, Keith. They get them from rich people who open businesses..
i gave you three jobs in my family alone.
Identify three rich people who were necessary for those jobs?

Outliers are not the norm, Keith.
but you didn't even say 'most' jobs, did you?
You just offered a blanket truth that does not stand up to scrutiny, nor does it answer anything to the OP. Just a conservative talikng point that pretends to be a juddtification for prostitution.
Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner,
but tgey do not HAVE to.
Not all restaurants are national chains.
Not all businesses must belong to a priviledged few.
Co-ops are quite possible, and thus we do not NEED the parasite rich.

But whst does thus have to do with the national debt and the GOP?
 

Half-Life

Banned
Outliers are not the norm, Keith.
but you didn't even say 'most' jobs, did you?
You just offered a blanket truth that does not stand up to scrutiny, nor does it answer anything to the OP. Just a conservative talikng point that pretends to be a juddtification for prostitution.
Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner,
but tgey do not HAVE to.
Not all restaurants are national chains.
Not all businesses must belong to a priviledged few.
Co-ops are quite possible, and thus we do not NEED the parasite rich.

But whst does thus have to do with the national debt and the GOP?

It is about tax cuts for the rich, Keith. I am showing why it's necessary.

The workers can not run the company. They would run it into the ground. This is why we have the smart people running it. Labor is not a reason to pay someone money. Like Ben Shapiro said, "you can spend all day digging 10 foot deep holes in your backyard. No one would deny that it was very hard work and you put a lot of effort into it. But, to go around and demand that someone pay you for doing that is quite stupid. People will laugh at you. Nobody will pay you just because you put in hard work and effort."

Reember why immigrants used to flock here? It was because wages were soaring due to unregulated capitalism. They didn't come here to work for less money, they came here to work for more money. Now we have so many regulations and wages are stagnant. Blame Democrats for this. Republicans hate regulations. They want everyone to get paid handsomely. But, Democrats want regulations out of the ass, Keith. This slows the economy. Trump is undoing regulations that Obama did and the economy is booming again.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
but you didn't even say 'most' jobs, did you?
You just offered a blanket truth that does not stand up to scrutiny, nor does it answer anything to the OP. Just a conservative talikng point that pretends to be a juddtification for prostitution.
but tgey do not HAVE to.
Not all restaurants are national chains.
Not all businesses must belong to a priviledged few.
Co-ops are quite possible, and thus we do not NEED the parasite rich.

But whst does thus have to do with the national debt and the GOP?

It is about tax cuts for the rich, Keith. I am showing why it's necessary.
you are stating that it's necessary, but no facts are coming forth.
The workers can not run the company. They would run it into the ground.
not true. Employee-owned businesses function all over the place, as well as family-run and small entrepreneurs' places.
So, stop flogging the lie or pony up studies.
This is why we have the smart people running it. Labor is not a reason to pay someone money.
that's actually the entire basis of currency, a way to store labor. Without the labor you just have people givong each other meaningless bits of paper.
Like Ben Shapiro said,
no one gives a fuck.

You never ate off a taco truck?
Or at a small pizza place with four tables innthe entire world?
The Rich are not the only source of jobs.
And tgey do not appear to be in danger of going broke.

Now, if this was structured more like farmer relief, say giving money to sick people so they can afford to stay home, rather than go make burgers at McDonald's and spread disease, that might make more sense for the economy than just making the parasites happier.
But this tax cut is not tied to jobs, keeping jobs, or making jobs.
Just graft.
 

Half-Life

Banned
you are stating that it's necessary, but no facts are coming forth.
The workers can not run the company. They would run it into the ground.
not true. Employee-owned businesses function all over the place, as well as family-run and small entrepreneurs' places.
So, stop flogging the lie or pony up studies.
This is why we have the smart people running it. Labor is not a reason to pay someone money.
that's actually the entire basis of currency, a way to store labor. Without the labor you just have people givong each other meaningless bits of paper.
Like Ben Shapiro said,
no one gives a fuck.

You never ate off a taco truck?
Or at a small pizza place with four tables innthe entire world?
The Rich are not the only source of jobs.
And tgey do not appear to be in danger of going broke.

Now, if this was structured more like farmer relief, say giving money to sick people so they can afford to stay home, rather than go make burgers at McDonald's and spread disease, that might make more sense for the economy than just making the parasites happier.
But this tax cut is not tied to jobs, keeping jobs, or making jobs.
Just graft.

And none of those small businesses allow their employees to own the businesses, Keith. So, it proves my point. There are lots of socialist leftists on youtube and whenever a right winger aks them, "How come you don't allow your workers who edit your videos and produce your videos to own your channel? Why do you take the majority of the profits?" And they stutter and stammer making up excuses why they are acting like capitalists instead of socialists.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
And none of those small businesses allow their employees to own the businesses, Keith. So, it proves my point.
wait. A family business doesn't allow it's employees to own the business?
A one-man taco truck doesn't allow...?
Your point is illiterate.
There are lots of socialist leftists on youtube
lost interest.
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
you are stating that it's necessary, but no facts are coming forth. not true. Employee-owned businesses function all over the place, as well as family-run and small entrepreneurs' places.
So, stop flogging the lie or pony up studies. that's actually the entire basis of currency, a way to store labor. Without the labor you just have people givong each other meaningless bits of paper.
Like Ben Shapiro said,
no one gives a fuck.

You never ate off a taco truck?
Or at a small pizza place with four tables innthe entire world?
The Rich are not the only source of jobs.
And tgey do not appear to be in danger of going broke.

Now, if this was structured more like farmer relief, say giving money to sick people so they can afford to stay home, rather than go make burgers at McDonald's and spread disease, that might make more sense for the economy than just making the parasites happier.
But this tax cut is not tied to jobs, keeping jobs, or making jobs.
Just graft.

And none of those small businesses allow their employees to own the businesses, Keith. So, it proves my point. There are lots of socialist leftists on youtube and whenever a right winger aks them, "How come you don't allow your workers who edit your videos and produce your videos to own your channel? Why do you take the majority of the profits?" And they stutter and stammer making up excuses why they are acting like capitalists instead of socialists.

 List of employee-owned companies

Acadian Ambulance
Applied Research Associates
Arizmendi Bakery
Bi-Mart
Black & Veatch
Bob's Red Mill
Brookshire Brothers
Carter's Foods
Certain Affinity
CH2M Hill
The Cheese Board Collective
Chicago and North Western Railway - sold to Union Pacific Railroad in 1995
Columbia Forest Products
Dahl's Foods
Davey Tree Expert Company
Dynetics
Ebby Halliday Realtors
Edgewood Management, LLC
Evergreen Cooperatives[1]
Ferrellgas Partners
Food Giant
Frontline Test Equipment
Gardener's Supply Company
Gensler
Graybar
Great Lakes Brewing Company[2]
Greatland Corporation
Harps Food Stores
HDR, Inc.
Hensel Phelps Construction
Herff Jones
Herman Miller
Houchens Industries
Huck's Food & Fuel
Hy-Vee
John J. McMullen & Associates - now part of Alion Science and Technology
Journal Communications
Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc.
King Arthur Flour
Lampin Corporation[3]
Landmark Education
Lifetouch
Mast General Store
Mathematica Policy Research
Mercedes Homes
Mushkin
MWH Global
New Belgium Brewing Company
Niemann Foods
Oliver Winery[4]
Peter Kiewit Sons'
Phelps County Bank
Price Chopper (New York) (Golub Corp.)
Publix
Raycom Media
Recology
Robert McNeel & Associates
Rosendin Electric
Scheels
Schreiber Foods
Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories
Springfield ReManufacturing
Stewart's Shops
Stiefel Labs
STV Group
Swales Aerospace
Terracon
Tidyman's
Torch Technologies
W. L. Gore & Associates
W. W. Norton & Company
WebAssign
Westat
Wimberly Allison Tong & Goo
WinCo Foods
Woodman's Food Market
 

southernhybrid

Contributor
It makes absolutely no sense to believe that giving the wealthy another tax break will help the economy. It's never worked that way, but Republicans keep pretending that Laffer was right when he came up with his stupid trickle down nonsense.

The current economic scare is due to a virus which will likely lead to a pandemic, which may very well lead to a global recession due to the potential massive interruption of the global supply chain. The supply chain from China is already being threatened. What happens if people stop going to theaters, restaurants or traveling? What happens if stores are unable to get the supplies that people need? Tax breaks aren't going to help those things.

The world hasn't faced a severe pandemic since the 1918 flu epidemic. We aren't prepared for this right now, and tax breaks to the wealthy aren't going to help. In fact, it makes more sense to put more money into helping the victims of the virus, in the way of providing free health care, and nutrition etc. If poor people don't get help, they might try to go to work when they are infected, which will only aide in the spread of the virus. If jobs shut down due to the supply chain, people will be suffering even more. You can't build a car if you need some parts from China and they aren't available.. You can't sell a medication if the drug company doesn't have all of the ingredients to manufacture it. That's the real problem, not the tax rates of the wealthiest. Trump and company are a bunch of fools! That is painfully obvious. They are infected with greed. They are clueless. But, no worries. The House isn't going to pass a tax break for the wealthiest. :)
 

Gun Nut

Veteran Member
Poor people don't create jobs for themselves, Keith. They get them from rich people who open businesses..
i gave you three jobs in my family alone.
Identify three rich people who were necessary for those jobs?

Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.

You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.

Half-Life. When someone points out something you didn't think of, rejoice that you have the opportunity to learn something instead of being a fucking moron that just wants to be right about things he doesn't know shit about. You are such the perfect American moron that wants to feed our crops gator aid "cause' it does a body good".
If people that (fail to) think like you were round up and exterminated, America could actually be great again. You are the embodiment of America's failed education system and Trump is the consequence of these uneducable idiots.
 

Ford

Contributor
Outliers are not the norm, Keith.
but you didn't even say 'most' jobs, did you?
You just offered a blanket truth that does not stand up to scrutiny, nor does it answer anything to the OP. Just a conservative talikng point that pretends to be a juddtification for prostitution.
Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner,
but tgey do not HAVE to.
Not all restaurants are national chains.
Not all businesses must belong to a priviledged few.
Co-ops are quite possible, and thus we do not NEED the parasite rich.

But whst does thus have to do with the national debt and the GOP?

Apparently Halfie has never heard of a small business.

I know a couple girls who run a food truck. They're not rich. My son in law started out with one food truck, and it took awhile for it to take off. Now he's got multiple trucks of different types, a catering business, a couple brick and mortar restaurants and an award winning chef working for him. He will likely become rich because of his success, but he started out as a small business owner with debts and dreams.

Having worked for years in advertising, I've met many, many small business owners who are decidedly not "rich." Some of them became successful. Many of the businesses closed.
 

bigfield

the baby-eater
Whenever someone claims that businesses will hire more people if government lowers their taxes, a question immediately springs to mind: "why would the business wait for a tax cut?"

Imagine for a minute that you're a business owner, weighing up whether or not you should hire more workers. You've worked out how much a new worker will cost you, and how much extra revenue you'll bring in by having them, and it works out to a profit. What an economist might call a marginal profit. So you hire the worker. Your company's tax bill isn't even in the equation.

On the other hand, it hiring that extra worker results in a marginal loss, then you won't hire the worker. It doesn't matter how low your taxes are; if hiring more workers decreases your profits, you just won't do it. Lower taxes isn't going to turn that marginal loss into a marginal profit.

(There are special cases, like cutting payroll tax, where cutting taxes might change the equation, but that's not usually what people are talking about.)

By reducing company taxes, all you are doing is increasing the owner's profits. Maybe you are hoping that they use this extra cash to bring forward some kind of investment that creates jobs, but that isn't even in the picture for many companies, big or small.
 

Jarhyn

Contributor
And none of those small businesses allow their employees to own the businesses, Keith. So, it proves my point. There are lots of socialist leftists on youtube and whenever a right winger aks them, "How come you don't allow your workers who edit your videos and produce your videos to own your channel? Why do you take the majority of the profits?" And they stutter and stammer making up excuses why they are acting like capitalists instead of socialists.

 List of employee-owned companies

Acadian Ambulance
Applied Research Associates
Arizmendi Bakery
Bi-Mart
Black & Veatch
Bob's Red Mill
Brookshire Brothers
Carter's Foods
Certain Affinity
CH2M Hill
The Cheese Board Collective
Chicago and North Western Railway - sold to Union Pacific Railroad in 1995
Columbia Forest Products
Dahl's Foods
Davey Tree Expert Company
Dynetics
Ebby Halliday Realtors
Edgewood Management, LLC
Evergreen Cooperatives[1]
Ferrellgas Partners
Food Giant
Frontline Test Equipment
Gardener's Supply Company
Gensler
Graybar
Great Lakes Brewing Company[2]
Greatland Corporation
Harps Food Stores
HDR, Inc.
Hensel Phelps Construction
Herff Jones
Herman Miller
Houchens Industries
Huck's Food & Fuel
Hy-Vee
John J. McMullen & Associates - now part of Alion Science and Technology
Journal Communications
Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc.
King Arthur Flour
Lampin Corporation[3]
Landmark Education
Lifetouch
Mast General Store
Mathematica Policy Research
Mercedes Homes
Mushkin
MWH Global
New Belgium Brewing Company
Niemann Foods
Oliver Winery[4]
Peter Kiewit Sons'
Phelps County Bank
Price Chopper (New York) (Golub Corp.)
Publix
Raycom Media
Recology
Robert McNeel & Associates
Rosendin Electric
Scheels
Schreiber Foods
Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories
Springfield ReManufacturing
Stewart's Shops
Stiefel Labs
STV Group
Swales Aerospace
Terracon
Tidyman's
Torch Technologies
W. L. Gore & Associates
W. W. Norton & Company
WebAssign
Westat
Wimberly Allison Tong & Goo
WinCo Foods
Woodman's Food Market

We are literally talking about someone who actually believes the lie that workers cannot administrate their own work, that they do not have an equal share, despite the necessity of the work they do to make the product.

Now, personally, I think that ownership of a person's means of production ought come as a function of time, and of resources extracted; that there should be a give and take, authority ceded to labor in exchange for extracted value, and that such a change is not particularly burdensome nor immediately impactful.

As you point out, there are many, and many more than you listed, companies that are worker-owned -- and largely successful ones to boot. This outs the lie to the claim that we need some ubermensch asshole to own and parasitize us to be successful.

Of course I suspect that the motivation of such claims are either that someone feels themselves incapable to the task (and some people doubtless are so incapable) or wishes to be the ubermensch owner, or perhaps they ARE an owner and wish to justify their parasitism, if only to themselves. I think it is a rather uncharitable view towards ones fellows, and potentially oneself regardless of who holds it or why.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
Of course I suspect that the motivation of such claims are either that someone feels themselves incapable to the task (and some people doubtless are so incapable) or wishes to be the ubermensch owner, or perhaps they ARE an owner and wish to justify their parasitism, if only to themselves. I think it is a rather uncharitable view towards ones fellows, and potentially oneself regardless of who holds it or why.

Don't forget, Halfie wants a system where only workers get citizenship. So to keep the 'job creators' happy, we'd have to define 'i own this' as a form of work. The owner gets work-for-citizenship credit for hiring VPs and managers to run his company, and somehow magically allows them to function because they'd be unable to run the company without the rich owner.

It's a complicated little fiction he tells himself. Hope nobody shines a bright light on it...
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
It makes absolutely no sense to believe that giving the wealthy another tax break will help the economy.
But Halfie isn't even suggesting that.
ALL he wants is to keep The Rich happy.
It's in our interest as workers that The Rich keep providing all these jobs...

Except.
Most non-chain stores suffer from the big box stores. If we RAISE taxes on the Rich, and Halfie thinks they would, what, shut down the money-making business that made them rich (?!), that might be better. If McD's and Burger King and Wendy's closed, business would increase at Big Bad Wolf's BBQ, and Josh-B-Gosh, and Martelli Pizza around town.
And there would be at least seven empty buildings for some new business to open in, already set up with a freezer and a drive-through.

Halfie might be on to something. We should tax the living shit out of the rich, get them to defensively and punitively close the big-box stores and chains. And watch locals take over the vacuum thus created.
 

Half-Life

Banned
but you didn't even say 'most' jobs, did you?
You just offered a blanket truth that does not stand up to scrutiny, nor does it answer anything to the OP. Just a conservative talikng point that pretends to be a juddtification for prostitution.
but tgey do not HAVE to.
Not all restaurants are national chains.
Not all businesses must belong to a priviledged few.
Co-ops are quite possible, and thus we do not NEED the parasite rich.

But whst does thus have to do with the national debt and the GOP?

Apparently Halfie has never heard of a small business.

I know a couple girls who run a food truck. They're not rich. My son in law started out with one food truck, and it took awhile for it to take off. Now he's got multiple trucks of different types, a catering business, a couple brick and mortar restaurants and an award winning chef working for him. He will likely become rich because of his success, but he started out as a small business owner with debts and dreams.

Having worked for years in advertising, I've met many, many small business owners who are decidedly not "rich." Some of them became successful. Many of the businesses closed.

I highly doubt that your son-in-law allows the workers of his expanding businesses to keep most of the profits while he keeps less of the profits. All the time I hear, "Owners don't do anything! They just pocket free money! They should get less of the profits!" Of course, this claim is untrue. Bill Gates works over 80 hours per week, despite being a billionaire.
 

Half-Life

Banned
Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.

You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.

Half-Life. When someone points out something you didn't think of, rejoice that you have the opportunity to learn something instead of being a fucking moron that just wants to be right about things he doesn't know shit about. You are such the perfect American moron that wants to feed our crops gator aid "cause' it does a body good".
If people that (fail to) think like you were round up and exterminated, America could actually be great again. You are the embodiment of America's failed education system and Trump is the consequence of these uneducable idiots.

I don't think it's right to call for the extermination of people just because they disagree politically. Maybe you're a Hitler fan, but that's not what conservatives believe in.

If a Trump supporter said the bold about leftists, you'd be screaming how intolerant they are.
 

Half-Life

Banned
It makes absolutely no sense to believe that giving the wealthy another tax break will help the economy.
But Halfie isn't even suggesting that.
ALL he wants is to keep The Rich happy.
It's in our interest as workers that The Rich keep providing all these jobs...

Except.
Most non-chain stores suffer from the big box stores. If we RAISE taxes on the Rich, and Halfie thinks they would, what, shut down the money-making business that made them rich (?!), that might be better. If McD's and Burger King and Wendy's closed, business would increase at Big Bad Wolf's BBQ, and Josh-B-Gosh, and Martelli Pizza around town.
And there would be at least seven empty buildings for some new business to open in, already set up with a freezer and a drive-through.

Halfie might be on to something. We should tax the living shit out of the rich, get them to defensively and punitively close the big-box stores and chains. And watch locals take over the vacuum thus created.

Keith, think of the mall. Most people who are on the left see the mall as everything wrong with capitalism. Now, just imagine the whole mall shut down. That's thousands of employees out of work. Is that a good thing, Keith? No way. People need these businesses in order for them to make a living and put food on the table. Calling the mall "a cesspool of capitalism" is spitting on all the workers who make a living there. Why would you rather have people out of work? Makes no sense.

Also, tax the rich to high Heaven and they will take their companies to another country with lower tax rates and all the jobs will really be gone. Nobody would be laughing then, Keith.
 

Half-Life

Banned
And none of those small businesses allow their employees to own the businesses, Keith. So, it proves my point. There are lots of socialist leftists on youtube and whenever a right winger aks them, "How come you don't allow your workers who edit your videos and produce your videos to own your channel? Why do you take the majority of the profits?" And they stutter and stammer making up excuses why they are acting like capitalists instead of socialists.

 List of employee-owned companies

Acadian Ambulance
Applied Research Associates
Arizmendi Bakery
Bi-Mart
Black & Veatch
Bob's Red Mill
Brookshire Brothers
Carter's Foods
Certain Affinity
CH2M Hill
The Cheese Board Collective
Chicago and North Western Railway - sold to Union Pacific Railroad in 1995
Columbia Forest Products
Dahl's Foods
Davey Tree Expert Company
Dynetics
Ebby Halliday Realtors
Edgewood Management, LLC
Evergreen Cooperatives[1]
Ferrellgas Partners
Food Giant
Frontline Test Equipment
Gardener's Supply Company
Gensler
Graybar
Great Lakes Brewing Company[2]
Greatland Corporation
Harps Food Stores
HDR, Inc.
Hensel Phelps Construction
Herff Jones
Herman Miller
Houchens Industries
Huck's Food & Fuel
Hy-Vee
John J. McMullen & Associates - now part of Alion Science and Technology
Journal Communications
Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc.
King Arthur Flour
Lampin Corporation[3]
Landmark Education
Lifetouch
Mast General Store
Mathematica Policy Research
Mercedes Homes
Mushkin
MWH Global
New Belgium Brewing Company
Niemann Foods
Oliver Winery[4]
Peter Kiewit Sons'
Phelps County Bank
Price Chopper (New York) (Golub Corp.)
Publix
Raycom Media
Recology
Robert McNeel & Associates
Rosendin Electric
Scheels
Schreiber Foods
Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories
Springfield ReManufacturing
Stewart's Shops
Stiefel Labs
STV Group
Swales Aerospace
Terracon
Tidyman's
Torch Technologies
W. L. Gore & Associates
W. W. Norton & Company
WebAssign
Westat
Wimberly Allison Tong & Goo
WinCo Foods
Woodman's Food Market

That is an interesting list. However, there are many questions about these businesses.

If an employee joins, do they immediately get the same ownership of the company as people who have been there since the beginning?

How did they get a business loan?

If someone quits, are they out of all their shares and become broke?

Who is liable for the risk and losses if the company tanks? All employees become broke as a joke?
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
Keith, think of the mall. Most people who are on the left see the mall as everything wrong with capitalism.
how do you know this?
Citation, please?
Because you make up a LOT of shit about leftist beliefs and opinions, i cannot accept this as a factual premise.
Now, just imagine the whole mall shut down.
Like the one in my town?
It's literally shut down because the 'rich guy' who owns it skipped on paying his taxes and the utilities and maintenance that the renters thought they were paying for.
Power shut off, water shut off, all that. Because of one guy's greedy business practices.
Yeah, i can imagine that REALLY well.
That's thousands of employees out of work. Is that a good thing, Keith?
Could be. Everyone who was shopping at the mall, paying money to this crooked developer, is no longer doing so.
The individual businesses in the mall have moved to the empty stores downtown. Most of the 'thousands of jobs' you quote have been preserved, and at higher profit margins than when they paid for floor space in the mall.

Well, the argument could be made.
But go ahead, prove your case?
People need these businesses in order for them to make a living and put food on the table. Calling the mall "a cesspool of capitalism" is spitting on all the workers who make a living there. Why would you rather have people out of work? Makes no sense.
Well, no, if your fanfiction of the mall is that it's the ONLY place for businesses to operate or for people to have jobs.
Look up Berkshire Mall in Lanesborough if you want. The towns survive, the people are finding other jobs, businesses moved to other locations.
In calling the Berk Mall a 'cesspool of capitalism' i would be spitting on the developer. Because of his fraud and greed, the mall closed.
Also, tax the rich to high Heaven and they will take their companies to another country with lower tax rates and all the jobs will really be gone. Nobody would be laughing then, Keith.
Yeah, they're gong to move McDonald's, your 'go to' example of rich job creators, to another country and all those jobs will be gone.
Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery likely. Sure.
Already dealt with that fantasy. Keep trying.
 

Half-Life

Banned
how do you know this?
Citation, please?
Because you make up a LOT of shit about leftist beliefs and opinions, i cannot accept this as a factual premise.
Like the one in my town?
It's literally shut down because the 'rich guy' who owns it skipped on paying his taxes and the utilities and maintenance that the renters thought they were paying for.
Power shut off, water shut off, all that. Because of one guy's greedy business practices.
Yeah, i can imagine that REALLY well.
That's thousands of employees out of work. Is that a good thing, Keith?
Could be. Everyone who was shopping at the mall, paying money to this crooked developer, is no longer doing so.
The individual businesses in the mall have moved to the empty stores downtown. Most of the 'thousands of jobs' you quote have been preserved, and at higher profit margins than when they paid for floor space in the mall.

Well, the argument could be made.
But go ahead, prove your case?
People need these businesses in order for them to make a living and put food on the table. Calling the mall "a cesspool of capitalism" is spitting on all the workers who make a living there. Why would you rather have people out of work? Makes no sense.
Well, no, if your fanfiction of the mall is that it's the ONLY place for businesses to operate or for people to have jobs.
Look up Berkshire Mall in Lanesborough if you want. The towns survive, the people are finding other jobs, businesses moved to other locations.
In calling the Berk Mall a 'cesspool of capitalism' i would be spitting on the developer. Because of his fraud and greed, the mall closed.
Also, tax the rich to high Heaven and they will take their companies to another country with lower tax rates and all the jobs will really be gone. Nobody would be laughing then, Keith.
Yeah, they're gong to move McDonald's, your 'go to' example of rich job creators, to another country and all those jobs will be gone.
Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery likely. Sure.
Already dealt with that fantasy. Keep trying.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JhBb76ru5E[/YOUTUBE]
 

Gun Nut

Veteran Member
Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.

You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.

Half-Life. When someone points out something you didn't think of, rejoice that you have the opportunity to learn something instead of being a fucking moron that just wants to be right about things he doesn't know shit about. You are such the perfect American moron that wants to feed our crops gator aid "cause' it does a body good".
If people that (fail to) think like you were round up and exterminated, America could actually be great again. You are the embodiment of America's failed education system and Trump is the consequence of these uneducable idiots.

I don't think it's right to call for the extermination of people just because they disagree politically. Maybe you're a Hitler fan, but that's not what conservatives believe in.

If a Trump supporter said the bold about leftists, you'd be screaming how intolerant they are.

I don't believe in the extermination of people who disagree..This is exactly what I am talking about.. your inability to comprehend disqualifies your opinion as being informed, and therefore is just gibberish. top that off with your inability to simply say, "oh duh, it was totally stupid for me to say that everyone works for a rich person.. I wasn't thinking". Since that is impossible for you to say, dialog with you is pointless. you just say random crap that has no foundation in reality. all the time... Perhaps you think that educated epole are just better at making things up than you are... i don;t know.. but words mean things... things happen and facts are real... deal with it, kid.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JhBb76ru5E[/YOUTUBE]
Not interested in argument by youtube.
You said 'most leftists' and i'm pretty sure you have a few examples, but no goddamned way of proving it applies to 'most' of the Left.
 

Half-Life

Banned
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JhBb76ru5E[/YOUTUBE]
Not interested in argument by youtube.
You said 'most leftists' and i'm pretty sure you have a few examples, but no goddamned way of proving it applies to 'most' of the Left.

Keith, this man IS the modern left.

Where have you been???

Notice he has no problems being a capitalist and taking profits from his channel, though.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JhBb76ru5E[/YOUTUBE]
Not interested in argument by youtube.
You said 'most leftists' and i'm pretty sure you have a few examples, but no goddamned way of proving it applies to 'most' of the Left.

Keith, this man IS the modern left.
One man speaks for the entire left?
How did that work? Was there an election?
I didn't get a text...
Where have you been???
Avoiding arguments presented by just posting someone else's youtube video.

So, suspecting you got bupkes on this derail except further derail.
 

Jarhyn

Contributor
Of course I suspect that the motivation of such claims are either that someone feels themselves incapable to the task (and some people doubtless are so incapable) or wishes to be the ubermensch owner, or perhaps they ARE an owner and wish to justify their parasitism, if only to themselves. I think it is a rather uncharitable view towards ones fellows, and potentially oneself regardless of who holds it or why.

Don't forget, Halfie wants a system where only workers get citizenship. So to keep the 'job creators' happy, we'd have to define 'i own this' as a form of work. The owner gets work-for-citizenship credit for hiring VPs and managers to run his company, and somehow magically allows them to function because they'd be unable to run the company without the rich owner.

It's a complicated little fiction he tells himself. Hope nobody shines a bright light on it...

That's ok, it's hard for a bright light to matter much when you gouge your own eyes out, lest they lead you to sin.
 

Gun Nut

Veteran Member
And none of those small businesses allow their employees to own the businesses, Keith. So, it proves my point. There are lots of socialist leftists on youtube and whenever a right winger aks them, "How come you don't allow your workers who edit your videos and produce your videos to own your channel? Why do you take the majority of the profits?" And they stutter and stammer making up excuses why they are acting like capitalists instead of socialists.

 List of employee-owned companies

Acadian Ambulance
Applied Research Associates
Arizmendi Bakery
Bi-Mart
Black & Veatch
Bob's Red Mill
Brookshire Brothers
Carter's Foods
Certain Affinity
CH2M Hill
The Cheese Board Collective
Chicago and North Western Railway - sold to Union Pacific Railroad in 1995
Columbia Forest Products
Dahl's Foods
Davey Tree Expert Company
Dynetics
Ebby Halliday Realtors
Edgewood Management, LLC
Evergreen Cooperatives[1]
Ferrellgas Partners
Food Giant
Frontline Test Equipment
Gardener's Supply Company
Gensler
Graybar
Great Lakes Brewing Company[2]
Greatland Corporation
Harps Food Stores
HDR, Inc.
Hensel Phelps Construction
Herff Jones
Herman Miller
Houchens Industries
Huck's Food & Fuel
Hy-Vee
John J. McMullen & Associates - now part of Alion Science and Technology
Journal Communications
Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc.
King Arthur Flour
Lampin Corporation[3]
Landmark Education
Lifetouch
Mast General Store
Mathematica Policy Research
Mercedes Homes
Mushkin
MWH Global
New Belgium Brewing Company
Niemann Foods
Oliver Winery[4]
Peter Kiewit Sons'
Phelps County Bank
Price Chopper (New York) (Golub Corp.)
Publix
Raycom Media
Recology
Robert McNeel & Associates
Rosendin Electric
Scheels
Schreiber Foods
Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories
Springfield ReManufacturing
Stewart's Shops
Stiefel Labs
STV Group
Swales Aerospace
Terracon
Tidyman's
Torch Technologies
W. L. Gore & Associates
W. W. Norton & Company
WebAssign
Westat
Wimberly Allison Tong & Goo
WinCo Foods
Woodman's Food Market

That is an interesting list. However, there are many questions about these businesses.

If an employee joins, do they immediately get the same ownership of the company as people who have been there since the beginning?

How did they get a business loan?

If someone quits, are they out of all their shares and become broke?

Who is liable for the risk and losses if the company tanks? All employees become broke as a joke?

look at it search for a place to put its goalposts... so cute.
 

ZiprHead

Loony Running The Asylum
Staff member
And none of those small businesses allow their employees to own the businesses, Keith. So, it proves my point. There are lots of socialist leftists on youtube and whenever a right winger aks them, "How come you don't allow your workers who edit your videos and produce your videos to own your channel? Why do you take the majority of the profits?" And they stutter and stammer making up excuses why they are acting like capitalists instead of socialists.

 List of employee-owned companies

Acadian Ambulance
Applied Research Associates
Arizmendi Bakery
Bi-Mart
Black & Veatch
Bob's Red Mill
Brookshire Brothers
Carter's Foods
Certain Affinity
CH2M Hill
The Cheese Board Collective
Chicago and North Western Railway - sold to Union Pacific Railroad in 1995
Columbia Forest Products
Dahl's Foods
Davey Tree Expert Company
Dynetics
Ebby Halliday Realtors
Edgewood Management, LLC
Evergreen Cooperatives[1]
Ferrellgas Partners
Food Giant
Frontline Test Equipment
Gardener's Supply Company
Gensler
Graybar
Great Lakes Brewing Company[2]
Greatland Corporation
Harps Food Stores
HDR, Inc.
Hensel Phelps Construction
Herff Jones
Herman Miller
Houchens Industries
Huck's Food & Fuel
Hy-Vee
John J. McMullen & Associates - now part of Alion Science and Technology
Journal Communications
Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc.
King Arthur Flour
Lampin Corporation[3]
Landmark Education
Lifetouch
Mast General Store
Mathematica Policy Research
Mercedes Homes
Mushkin
MWH Global
New Belgium Brewing Company
Niemann Foods
Oliver Winery[4]
Peter Kiewit Sons'
Phelps County Bank
Price Chopper (New York) (Golub Corp.)
Publix
Raycom Media
Recology
Robert McNeel & Associates
Rosendin Electric
Scheels
Schreiber Foods
Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories
Springfield ReManufacturing
Stewart's Shops
Stiefel Labs
STV Group
Swales Aerospace
Terracon
Tidyman's
Torch Technologies
W. L. Gore & Associates
W. W. Norton & Company
WebAssign
Westat
Wimberly Allison Tong & Goo
WinCo Foods
Woodman's Food Market

That is an interesting list. However, there are many questions about these businesses.

If an employee joins, do they immediately get the same ownership of the company as people who have been there since the beginning?

How did they get a business loan?

If someone quits, are they out of all their shares and become broke?

Who is liable for the risk and losses if the company tanks? All employees become broke as a joke?

Each of those companies has a link to its wiki page which describes it's structure. You're welcome to look and learn.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member

This is 100% true.

Name me one job where someone doesn't work for a rich owner.

I will wait patiently for your answer.

Reality check: We already tried that--tax cuts for the rich produced very few jobs. You need both money and something productive to do with it to create jobs--the tax cuts only created the former. Tax cuts will produce jobs when the existing production capacity is near it's limit, but we don't have that now.
 

Loren Pechtel

Super Moderator
Staff member
It makes absolutely no sense to believe that giving the wealthy another tax break will help the economy. It's never worked that way, but Republicans keep pretending that Laffer was right when he came up with his stupid trickle down nonsense.

Actually, his curve is basically correct--the problem is one of application. Note that his curve only has 0% and 100% marks, there is no calibration of the curve in between. The GOP takes it on faith that we are to the right of the peak on the curve but we have no evidence of this.

The current economic scare is due to a virus which will likely lead to a pandemic, which may very well lead to a global recession due to the potential massive interruption of the global supply chain. The supply chain from China is already being threatened. What happens if people stop going to theaters, restaurants or traveling? What happens if stores are unable to get the supplies that people need? Tax breaks aren't going to help those things.

Actually, the Chinese supply chain is starting to recover. We are going to see the local problems you envision, though.
 

Rhea

Cyborg with a Tiara
Staff member
Poor people don't create jobs for themselves, Keith. They get them from rich people who open businesses..
i gave you three jobs in my family alone.
Identify three rich people who were necessary for those jobs?

Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.
It takes a very special effort to be as wrong as you are on this.
For those reading who are interested in real answers, the majority of workers do NOT work for the megawealthy corporations, in fact 46% of those who work at employer firms (not self-employed) work for companies with fewer than 500 employees, and these small businesses had the larger net job increases versus larger companies.

https://sbecouncil.org/about-us/facts-and-data/

American Business is Overwhelmingly Small Business
According to data from the Census Bureau’s Annual Survey of Entrepreneurs, there were 5.6 million employer firms in the United States in 2016.

● Firms with fewer than 500 workers accounted for 99.7 percent of those businesses.

● Firms with fewer than 100 workers accounted for 98.2 percent.

● Firms with fewer than 20 workers made up 89.0 percent.

Add in the number of nonemployer businesses – there were 24.8 million in 2016 (latest data) – then the share of U.S. businesses with less than 20 workers increases to 98.0 percent.

Small Business Share of Employment
According to data from the Census Bureau’s Annual Survey of Entrepreneurs:

● Employer firms with fewer than 500 workers employed 46.8 percent of private sector payrolls in 2016.

● Employer firms with fewer than 100 workers employed 33.4 percent.

● Employer firms with less than 20 workers employed 16.8 percent.

So half life’s claim is laughably absurd. To make his claim that it’s an “outlier” to not work for the mega rich, he has to ignore more than half of the working population. HALF.

He may be spouting these nonsensical fantasies, but they are so easily checked and refuted that the argument becomes an indictment of his whole premise.

He’s just plain flat out wrong.

Now, an interesting thing will be to watch when he is so easily proven wrong, whether he is interested in the truth, and learns from it, or whether he is deliberately NOT interested in truth.

We shall see forthwith, ja? What’ll it be Half-Life? Truth or Deliberate Fiction for you?


You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.

This is another fiction. We don’t “blast the rich when the company closes”. Not one person here has said that.
The truth is easily found, and this is a fabrication, Half Life. Now that it has been pointed out will you use truth? Or deliberately post fiction?
 

DBT

Contributor
Poor people don't create jobs for themselves, Keith. They get them from rich people who open businesses..
i gave you three jobs in my family alone.
Identify three rich people who were necessary for those jobs?

Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.

You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.

When the rich start a business they are not necessarily thinking about creating jobs and helping people, but turning a profit....getting even richer. If they could do that through automation, even better for them.

The rich hire people, not necessarily through the goodness of their heart or social conscience, but because they need workers to run their business....paying as little as possible wherever possible while charging customers whatever the market permits. Maximising profits, minimising running costs.
 

Half-Life

Banned
Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.

You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.

When the rich start a business they are not necessarily thinking about creating jobs and helping people, but turning a profit....getting even richer. If they could do that through automation, even better for them.

The rich hire people, not necessarily through the goodness of their heart or social conscience, but because they need workers to run their business....paying as little as possible wherever possible while charging customers whatever the market permits. Maximising profits, minimising running costs.

That is a distinction without a difference. Sort of like someone saving a drowning kid because they wanted to help the kid vs someone helping the drowning kid because they wanted to be a local hero. Both mindsets end up with the same result: the kid being saved from drowning.

You can not pay people a doctor's salary for stocking shelves at a company. You just can't. Then nobody would want to become a doctor. There's a reason your skill set determines your job.

Got no skills? Then practice saying, "You want fries with that?"
Got skills? Then you'll be in a high paying job.
 

Keith&Co.

Contributor
The rich hire people, not necessarily through the goodness of their heart or social conscience, but because they need workers to run their business....paying as little as possible wherever possible while charging customers whatever the market permits. Maximising profits, minimising running costs.

That is a distinction without a difference.
actually, a crucial distinction.
You present them as creating jobs like doing us a favor.
But you also admit they're one whim away from sending the jobs overseas, for the profits .
Sort of like someone saving a drowning kid because they wanted to help the kid vs someone helping the drowning kid because they wanted to be a local hero. Both mindsets end up with the same result: the kid being saved from drowning.
except of tgge teo, one one is ever goingbto be the one who threw the kid in, in the first place.
 
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