AS DEFICIT EXPLODES, GOP DEMANDS EMERGENCY TAX CUT FOR THE RICH

[Keith&Co.]

Keith, this man IS the modern left.

One man speaks for the entire left?

Well of course. Remember in the 60s when pretty much everyone to the left of Barry Goldwater was a pot-smoking long-haired hippie?

True.
Plus, some people use 'left' the way Holden Caulfield used 'phony.'

 

[Gun Nut]

And none of those small businesses allow their employees to own the businesses, Keith. So, it proves my point. There are lots of socialist leftists on youtube and whenever a right winger aks them, "How come you don't allow your workers who edit your videos and produce your videos to own your channel? Why do you take the majority of the profits?" And they stutter and stammer making up excuses why they are acting like capitalists instead of socialists.

 List of employee-owned companies

Acadian Ambulance
Applied Research Associates
Arizmendi Bakery
Bi-Mart
Black & Veatch
Bob's Red Mill
Brookshire Brothers
Carter's Foods
Certain Affinity
CH2M Hill
The Cheese Board Collective
Chicago and North Western Railway - sold to Union Pacific Railroad in 1995
Columbia Forest Products
Dahl's Foods
Davey Tree Expert Company
Dynetics
Ebby Halliday Realtors
Edgewood Management, LLC
Evergreen Cooperatives[1]
Ferrellgas Partners
Food Giant
Frontline Test Equipment
Gardener's Supply Company
Gensler
Graybar
Great Lakes Brewing Company[2]
Greatland Corporation
Harps Food Stores
HDR, Inc.
Hensel Phelps Construction
Herff Jones
Herman Miller
Houchens Industries
Huck's Food & Fuel
Hy-Vee
John J. McMullen & Associates - now part of Alion Science and Technology
Journal Communications
Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc.
King Arthur Flour
Lampin Corporation[3]
Landmark Education
Lifetouch
Mast General Store
Mathematica Policy Research
Mercedes Homes
Mushkin
MWH Global
New Belgium Brewing Company
Niemann Foods
Oliver Winery[4]
Peter Kiewit Sons'
Phelps County Bank
Price Chopper (New York) (Golub Corp.)
Publix
Raycom Media
Recology
Robert McNeel & Associates
Rosendin Electric
Scheels
Schreiber Foods
Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories
Springfield ReManufacturing
Stewart's Shops
Stiefel Labs
STV Group
Swales Aerospace
Terracon
Tidyman's
Torch Technologies
W. L. Gore & Associates
W. W. Norton & Company
WebAssign
Westat
Wimberly Allison Tong & Goo
WinCo Foods
Woodman's Food Market

That is an interesting list. However, there are many questions about these businesses.

If an employee joins, do they immediately get the same ownership of the company as people who have been there since the beginning?

How did they get a business loan?

If someone quits, are they out of all their shares and become broke?

Who is liable for the risk and losses if the company tanks? All employees become broke as a joke?

look at it search for a place to put its goalposts... so cute.

 

[ZiprHead]

And none of those small businesses allow their employees to own the businesses, Keith. So, it proves my point. There are lots of socialist leftists on youtube and whenever a right winger aks them, "How come you don't allow your workers who edit your videos and produce your videos to own your channel? Why do you take the majority of the profits?" And they stutter and stammer making up excuses why they are acting like capitalists instead of socialists.

 List of employee-owned companies

Acadian Ambulance
Applied Research Associates
Arizmendi Bakery
Bi-Mart
Black & Veatch
Bob's Red Mill
Brookshire Brothers
Carter's Foods
Certain Affinity
CH2M Hill
The Cheese Board Collective
Chicago and North Western Railway - sold to Union Pacific Railroad in 1995
Columbia Forest Products
Dahl's Foods
Davey Tree Expert Company
Dynetics
Ebby Halliday Realtors
Edgewood Management, LLC
Evergreen Cooperatives[1]
Ferrellgas Partners
Food Giant
Frontline Test Equipment
Gardener's Supply Company
Gensler
Graybar
Great Lakes Brewing Company[2]
Greatland Corporation
Harps Food Stores
HDR, Inc.
Hensel Phelps Construction
Herff Jones
Herman Miller
Houchens Industries
Huck's Food & Fuel
Hy-Vee
John J. McMullen & Associates - now part of Alion Science and Technology
Journal Communications
Kimley-Horn and Associates, Inc.
King Arthur Flour
Lampin Corporation[3]
Landmark Education
Lifetouch
Mast General Store
Mathematica Policy Research
Mercedes Homes
Mushkin
MWH Global
New Belgium Brewing Company
Niemann Foods
Oliver Winery[4]
Peter Kiewit Sons'
Phelps County Bank
Price Chopper (New York) (Golub Corp.)
Publix
Raycom Media
Recology
Robert McNeel & Associates
Rosendin Electric
Scheels
Schreiber Foods
Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories
Springfield ReManufacturing
Stewart's Shops
Stiefel Labs
STV Group
Swales Aerospace
Terracon
Tidyman's
Torch Technologies
W. L. Gore & Associates
W. W. Norton & Company
WebAssign
Westat
Wimberly Allison Tong & Goo
WinCo Foods
Woodman's Food Market

That is an interesting list. However, there are many questions about these businesses.

If an employee joins, do they immediately get the same ownership of the company as people who have been there since the beginning?

How did they get a business loan?

If someone quits, are they out of all their shares and become broke?

Who is liable for the risk and losses if the company tanks? All employees become broke as a joke?

Each of those companies has a link to its wiki page which describes it's structure. You're welcome to look and learn.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Maybe a youtube would help?
Does each company have a youtube?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

View attachment 26394

This is 100% true.

Name me one job where someone doesn't work for a rich owner.

I will wait patiently for your answer.

Reality check: We already tried that--tax cuts for the rich produced very few jobs. You need both money and something productive to do with it to create jobs--the tax cuts only created the former. Tax cuts will produce jobs when the existing production capacity is near it's limit, but we don't have that now.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It makes absolutely no sense to believe that giving the wealthy another tax break will help the economy. It's never worked that way, but Republicans keep pretending that Laffer was right when he came up with his stupid trickle down nonsense.

Actually, his curve is basically correct--the problem is one of application. Note that his curve only has 0% and 100% marks, there is no calibration of the curve in between. The GOP takes it on faith that we are to the right of the peak on the curve but we have no evidence of this.

The current economic scare is due to a virus which will likely lead to a pandemic, which may very well lead to a global recession due to the potential massive interruption of the global supply chain. The supply chain from China is already being threatened. What happens if people stop going to theaters, restaurants or traveling? What happens if stores are unable to get the supplies that people need? Tax breaks aren't going to help those things.

Actually, the Chinese supply chain is starting to recover. We are going to see the local problems you envision, though.

 

[Rhea]

Poor people don't create jobs for themselves, Keith. They get them from rich people who open businesses..

i gave you three jobs in my family alone.
Identify three rich people who were necessary for those jobs?

Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.

It takes a very special effort to be as wrong as you are on this.
For those reading who are interested in real answers, the majority of workers do NOT work for the megawealthy corporations, in fact 46% of those who work at employer firms (not self-employed) work for companies with fewer than 500 employees, and these small businesses had the larger net job increases versus larger companies.

https://sbecouncil.org/about-us/facts-and-data/

American Business is Overwhelmingly Small Business
According to data from the Census Bureau’s Annual Survey of Entrepreneurs, there were 5.6 million employer firms in the United States in 2016.

● Firms with fewer than 500 workers accounted for 99.7 percent of those businesses.

● Firms with fewer than 100 workers accounted for 98.2 percent.

● Firms with fewer than 20 workers made up 89.0 percent.

Add in the number of nonemployer businesses – there were 24.8 million in 2016 (latest data) – then the share of U.S. businesses with less than 20 workers increases to 98.0 percent.

Small Business Share of Employment
According to data from the Census Bureau’s Annual Survey of Entrepreneurs:

● Employer firms with fewer than 500 workers employed 46.8 percent of private sector payrolls in 2016.

● Employer firms with fewer than 100 workers employed 33.4 percent.

● Employer firms with less than 20 workers employed 16.8 percent.

So half life’s claim is laughably absurd. To make his claim that it’s an “outlier” to not work for the mega rich, he has to ignore more than half of the working population. HALF.

He may be spouting these nonsensical fantasies, but they are so easily checked and refuted that the argument becomes an indictment of his whole premise.

He’s just plain flat out wrong.

Now, an interesting thing will be to watch when he is so easily proven wrong, whether he is interested in the truth, and learns from it, or whether he is deliberately NOT interested in truth.

We shall see forthwith, ja? What’ll it be Half-Life? Truth or Deliberate Fiction for you?

You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.

This is another fiction. We don’t “blast the rich when the company closes”. Not one person here has said that.
The truth is easily found, and this is a fabrication, Half Life. Now that it has been pointed out will you use truth? Or deliberately post fiction?

 

[DBT]

Poor people don't create jobs for themselves, Keith. They get them from rich people who open businesses..

i gave you three jobs in my family alone.
Identify three rich people who were necessary for those jobs?

Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.

You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.

When the rich start a business they are not necessarily thinking about creating jobs and helping people, but turning a profit....getting even richer. If they could do that through automation, even better for them.

The rich hire people, not necessarily through the goodness of their heart or social conscience, but because they need workers to run their business....paying as little as possible wherever possible while charging customers whatever the market permits. Maximising profits, minimising running costs.

 

[Half-Life]

Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.

You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.

When the rich start a business they are not necessarily thinking about creating jobs and helping people, but turning a profit....getting even richer. If they could do that through automation, even better for them.

The rich hire people, not necessarily through the goodness of their heart or social conscience, but because they need workers to run their business....paying as little as possible wherever possible while charging customers whatever the market permits. Maximising profits, minimising running costs.

That is a distinction without a difference. Sort of like someone saving a drowning kid because they wanted to help the kid vs someone helping the drowning kid because they wanted to be a local hero. Both mindsets end up with the same result: the kid being saved from drowning.

You can not pay people a doctor's salary for stocking shelves at a company. You just can't. Then nobody would want to become a doctor. There's a reason your skill set determines your job.

Got no skills? Then practice saying, "You want fries with that?"
Got skills? Then you'll be in a high paying job.

 

[Keith&Co.]

The rich hire people, not necessarily through the goodness of their heart or social conscience, but because they need workers to run their business....paying as little as possible wherever possible while charging customers whatever the market permits. Maximising profits, minimising running costs.

That is a distinction without a difference.

actually, a crucial distinction.
You present them as creating jobs like doing us a favor.
But you also admit they're one whim away from sending the jobs overseas, for the profits .

Sort of like someone saving a drowning kid because they wanted to help the kid vs someone helping the drowning kid because they wanted to be a local hero. Both mindsets end up with the same result: the kid being saved from drowning.

except of tgge teo, one one is ever goingbto be the one who threw the kid in, in the first place.

 

[ZiprHead]

Outliers are not the norm, Keith.

Most everyone works a job where they work for a rich owner, which means it's in the worker's best interest to keep the company going so they don't close and lose their jobs.

You can't have it both ways, Keith. You can't blast the rich for creating all these jobs and then turn around and also blast the rich when the company closes. We see how many people complain when the company goes under. They know they need the rich guy's company to survive at that point.

When the rich start a business they are not necessarily thinking about creating jobs and helping people, but turning a profit....getting even richer. If they could do that through automation, even better for them.

The rich hire people, not necessarily through the goodness of their heart or social conscience, but because they need workers to run their business....paying as little as possible wherever possible while charging customers whatever the market permits. Maximising profits, minimising running costs.

That is a distinction without a difference. Sort of like someone saving a drowning kid because they wanted to help the kid vs someone helping the drowning kid because they wanted to be a local hero. Both mindsets end up with the same result: the kid being saved from drowning.

You can not pay people a doctor's salary for stocking shelves at a company. You just can't. Then nobody would want to become a doctor. There's a reason your skill set determines your job.

Got no skills? Then practice saying, "You want fries with that?"
Got skills? Then you'll be in a high paying job.

 

[Half-Life]

That is a distinction without a difference. Sort of like someone saving a drowning kid because they wanted to help the kid vs someone helping the drowning kid because they wanted to be a local hero. Both mindsets end up with the same result: the kid being saved from drowning.

You can not pay people a doctor's salary for stocking shelves at a company. You just can't. Then nobody would want to become a doctor. There's a reason your skill set determines your job.

Got no skills? Then practice saying, "You want fries with that?"
Got skills? Then you'll be in a high paying job.

View attachment 26426

It's supposed to be a motivator. I'm sure there's some people in the world who are perfectly happy working at McDonald's and whistle while they work there. They understand they have no skills and they have come to terms with it. They are making the best of their life. The ones who complain about those jobs are the ones who realize they wasted their potential and could've done something better. When I was growing up my parents always used to ask me, "You don't want to end up like that guy, right?" when we would go out to eat at a fast food place. I would say, "No way!"

The people in those jobs have very little skills. They should not be rewarded with more money for that. People are exactly where they belong in the world.

 

[Keith&Co.]

View attachment 26426

People are exactly where they belong in the world.

prolix.
You could have just agreed that some people deserve to live in poverty.
Oh! Look! You just did!

 

[ZiprHead]

That is a distinction without a difference. Sort of like someone saving a drowning kid because they wanted to help the kid vs someone helping the drowning kid because they wanted to be a local hero. Both mindsets end up with the same result: the kid being saved from drowning.

You can not pay people a doctor's salary for stocking shelves at a company. You just can't. Then nobody would want to become a doctor. There's a reason your skill set determines your job.

Got no skills? Then practice saying, "You want fries with that?"
Got skills? Then you'll be in a high paying job.

View attachment 26426

It's supposed to be a motivator.

So you want people to be in poverty. Got it.

 

[Half-Life]

View attachment 26426

People are exactly where they belong in the world.

prolix.
You could have just agreed that some people deserve to live in poverty.
Oh! Look! You just did!

We can test this claim, Keith.

I don't want to assume you make a lot of money, but I will assume that you are well off for yourself. Let's just say that hypothetically you make 100K a year, Keith. If you went into McDonald's and an employee said to you, "Keith! Give me 20 grand! I know you make 100K a year! Give me 20 grand now!! I need it!!"

Would you give it to him? Of course you wouldn't. You'd probably say something like, "Get a better job," or, "get your own money" or "I'm not your father."

You do not believe that person is entitled to your money, right?

 

[Keith&Co.]

What in the name of fuck does my relative generosity have to do with you stating that people deserve to not earn a living wage?

 

[Half-Life]

It's supposed to be a motivator.

So you want people to be in poverty. Got it.

No, but that is the unfortunate outcome of people being lazy and having no skills. Capitalism is the one system that has lifted billions out of poverty. If you can't lift yourself out the way countless others have, then you failed. It's OK to fail. Just don't demand that others need to take care of you, then.

Look at unions. They think promotions should be done based on who was there the longest as opposed to who is the most productive. I can show up to a union job, run circles around everyone that works there, but I have no chance of a promotion because I am the lowest guy on their totem pole: the newest hire. I have no seniority. This is why Republicans despise unions. They reward the lazy as opposed to the productive.

Remember when I told you guys I used to work at Wendy's in college? One day I opened the soda fountain and started cleaning the gunk out of the sides and everything. The manager said, "Wow! No one ever voluntarily does this! Keep up the good work!" and I got a raise after a few months and my co-workers were complaining about it. I said, "it's because you guys do the bare minimum. I'm not lazy like that."

They had the attitude of, "I'm getting paid minimum wage! That means I'm doing minimum work!" They don't realize this attitude holds them back. They think they are "sticking it to the owner" by doing the bare minimum, but they are really just sticking it to themselves. At many minimum wage jobs, that is the people's attitude: do minimum work. Pay me more, I do more.

 

[ZiprHead]

prolix.
You could have just agreed that some people deserve to live in poverty.
Oh! Look! You just did!

We can test this claim, Keith.

I don't want to assume you make a lot of money, but I will assume that you are well off for yourself. Let's just say that hypothetically you make 100K a year, Keith. If you went into McDonald's and an employee said to you, "Keith! Give me 20 grand! I know you make 100K a year! Give me 20 grand now!! I need it!!"

Would you give it to him? Of course you wouldn't. You'd probably say something like, "Get a better job," or, "get your own money" or "I'm not your father."

You do not believe that person is entitled to your money, right?

Oh, goody. Another ridiculous made up story to justify a bullshit position.

A perfect example of people making $200 an hour convincing someone making $25 an hour that people making minimum wage are the problem.

 

[Keith&Co.]

. If you can't lift yourself out the way countless others have, then you failed.

So, that's WHY you think people in poverty deserve it.
But blaming tge poor for being poor still means you think they derpserve to be poor.
I suppose you think Jesus taught that, Too?

 

[Patooka]

The poor deserve to be poor because they are too fucking stupid to commit fraud and lie about their taxes. Smart people do that all the time, apparently.