'Baby, It's Cold Outside,' Seen As Sexist, Frozen Out By Radio Stations

[HelixSpiral]

So are we just a few steps away from PETA demanding Hippopotamus for Christmas being taken off the air?

 

[southernhybrid]

How about the lyrics to "Run for you Life" by the Beatles!


Well, I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or you won't know where I am


You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl


Well, you know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line


You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl


Let this be a sermon
I mean everything I've said
Baby, I'm determined
And I'd rather see you dead

 

[dismal]

I suppose it's different when a song's supposed to be rapey. Warren Zevon's Excitable Boy, for example. I don't think we'd be debating whether it's "rapey":

He took little Suzie to the Junior Prom
Excitable boy, they all said
And he raped her and killed her, then he took her home
Excitable boy, they all said
Well, he's just an excitable boy

But speaking of the Beatles I heard Ringo singing You're 16, You're Beautiful (and You're Mine) the other day and my outrage sense was tingling. I suggest we all get outraged over that for a few minutes.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I suppose it's different when a song's supposed to be rapey. Warren Zevon's Excitable Boy, for example. I don't think we'd be debating whether it's "rapey":

He took little Suzie to the Junior Prom
Excitable boy, they all said
And he raped her and killed her, then he took her home
Excitable boy, they all said
Well, he's just an excitable boy

Hey, he took her home. In order to properly appreciate the context of the song, you can't just focus on the rape and murder part of the song while brushing over the fact that ended the evening by behaving as a gentleman.

 

[ruby sparks]

How about the lyrics to "Run for you Life" by the Beatles!


Well, I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or you won't know where I am


You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl


Well, you know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line


You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand, little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl


Let this be a sermon
I mean everything I've said
Baby, I'm determined
And I'd rather see you dead

Ouch. That is a bit murdery.

 

[Politesse]

I suppose it's different when a song's supposed to be rapey. Warren Zevon's Excitable Boy, for example. I don't think we'd be debating whether it's "rapey":

He took little Suzie to the Junior Prom
Excitable boy, they all said
And he raped her and killed her, then he took her home
Excitable boy, they all said
Well, he's just an excitable boy

But speaking of the Beatles I heard Ringo singing You're 16, You're Beautiful (and You're Mine) the other day and my outrage sense was tingling. I suggest we all get outraged over that for a few minutes.

Are we all just going to ignore the part where she went out with him voluntarily? You can't blame men for things women agree to. Even if they say no at a certain point, such as most of the song, giving consent to one thing means giving consent to whatever he wants.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

In order to properly appreciate the context of the song, you can't just focus on the rape and murder part of the song

You have that exactly backwards. In order to properly "appreciate" the "rape and murder part of the song," you need to focus on the context.

I don't know why proper context would ever be a stumbling block for anyone, let alone in a thread that is precisely about proper context. This isn't brain surgery.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

In order to properly appreciate the context of the song, you can't just focus on the rape and murder part of the song

You have that exactly backwards. In order to properly "appreciate" the "rape and murder part of the song," you need to focus on the context.

I don't know why proper context would ever be a stumbling block for anyone, let alone in a thread that is precisely about proper context. This isn't brain surgery.

And all I'm saying is that you can't just strip the lines about how he raped and murdered her out on their own without taking the surrounding lines into account as well. He was also polite to her and those actions matter.

 

[ruby sparks]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8egtA89JsM[/YOUTUBE]

"....With all the charms of a woman
You've kept the secret of your youth
You led me to believe you're old enough
To give me love
And now it hurts to know the truth...

Beneath your perfume and your make-up
You're just a baby in disguise
And though you know that it's wrong to be
Alone with me
That come on look is in your eyes....

So hurry home to your mama
I'm sure she wonders where you are
Get out of here
Before I have the time
To change my mind
'Cause I'm afraid we'll go too far"

Child abusey or what?

 

[TSwizzle]

I suppose it's different when a song's supposed to be rapey. Warren Zevon's Excitable Boy, for example. I don't think we'd be debating whether it's "rapey":

He took little Suzie to the Junior Prom
Excitable boy, they all said
And he raped her and killed her, then he took her home
Excitable boy, they all said
Well, he's just an excitable boy

No, that's not "rapey" in the same way as "Baby It's Cold Outside". Excitable Boy is about a rape incident.

I don't think you can get anymore "rapey" than Magazine's "Permafrost". (Giving my age away, I know.)

Thunder shook loose hail on the outhouse again
Today I bumped into you again
I have no idea what you want
But there was something I meant to say

As the day stops dead
At the place where we're lost
I will drug you and fuck you
On the permafrost

There's not much that I miss
I'm far too forgetful for that
Sugar's sweet some of the time
It's hard to keep some things in mind

As the day stops dead
At the place where we're lost
I will drug you and fuck you
On the permafrost

I think if Devoto had added in some jingle bells he could have had a Christmas #1 on his hands.

But speaking of the Beatles I heard Ringo singing You're 16, You're Beautiful (and You're Mine) the other day and my outrage sense was tingling. I suggest we all get outraged over that for a few minutes.

Monster !!

 

[ruby sparks]

ABBA — "When I Kissed the Teacher"

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wydPIAxuXdw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[ruby sparks]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f20Oz9Yr_So[/YOUTUBE]

“He hit me and it felt like a kiss
he hit me but it didn’t hurt me
he hit me and I knew he loved me
If he didn’t care for me
I could have never made him mad
but he hit me and I was glad.”

 

[dismal]

I don't know why they can't set a positive example like the guy in Possum Kingdom. He actively seeks out affirmative consent:

Possum Kingdom
Toadies
Make up your mind
Decide to walk with me
Around the lake tonight
Around the lake tonight
By my side
By my side
I'm not gonna lie
I'll not be a gentleman
Behind the boathouse
I'll show you my dark secret
I'm not gonna lie
I want you for mine
My blushing bride
My lover, be my lover, yeah
Don't be afraid
I didn't mean to scare you
So help me, Jesus
I can promise you
You'll stay as beautiful
With dark hair
And soft skin, forever
Forever
Make up your mind
Make up your mind
And I'll promise you
I will treat you well
My sweet angel
So help me, Jesus
(hey, hey, hey)
Give it up to me
Give it up to me
Do you wanna be
My angel?
So help me!
Be my angel
Be my angel
Do you wanna die?
I promise you
I will treat you well
My sweet angel
So help me, Jesus
Jesus
Jesus
Jesus

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Are we all just going to ignore the part where she went out with him voluntarily? You can't blame men for things women agree to. Even if they say no at a certain point, such as most of the song

JTFC. The woman in Baby It's Cold Outside is NOT saying "No" to sex. She literally explains why she is saying the answer is "no":

This evening has been so very nice. My mother will start to worry. My father will be pacing the floor, so really I'd better scurry.

But maybe just a half a drink more.
...
I wish I knew how to break this spell. I ought to say, no, no, no sir. At least I'm gonna say that I tried. I really can't stay. But baby, it's cold outside. I simply must go. The answer is no. My sister will be suspicious. My brother will be there at the door. My maiden aunt's mind is vicious.

But maybe just a cigarette more.
...
You've really been grand, but don't you see? There's bound to be talk tomorrow, at least there will be plenty implied. I really can't stay, baby, it's cold. Baby, it's cold outside.

Where in any of that do you see her being raped or even in an uncomfortable position that she isn't in control of at every step of the way, including the ending, when she evidently finally decides to leave? Are you insinuating the man has some sort of invasive powers of suggestion or something?

She wants to have sex with him; he wants to have sex with her; society judges her too much for her to handle it ("get over that old out"); I really can't stay; baby, it's cold outside.

giving consent to one thing means giving consent to whatever he wants.

At NO point does she act in accordance with whatever he wants. The entire song is about what she wants and then in the end she evidently acts against that want and decides instead to cave into social pressure and leave.

It's not fucking brain surgery.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

“He hit me and it felt like a kiss
he hit me but it didn’t hurt me
he hit me and I knew he loved me
If he didn’t care for me
I could have never made him mad
but he hit me and I was glad.”

What's the problem with that? She likes it. Bigotry against masochists is still bigotry. Just because you don't personally agree with an individual's lifestyle choices doesn't mean that you therefore have a right to oppress them and not allow them to live how they want and do what they want.

Do you also have some links to songs about men kissing other men which you'd like to post as icky things which belong in a conversation about music which should be banned because they're problematic?

 

[ruby sparks]

“He hit me and it felt like a kiss
he hit me but it didn’t hurt me
he hit me and I knew he loved me
If he didn’t care for me
I could have never made him mad
but he hit me and I was glad.”

What's the problem with that? She likes it. Bigotry against masochists is still bigotry. Just because you don't personally agree with an individual's lifestyle choices doesn't mean that you therefore have a right to oppress them and not allow them to live how they want and do what they want.

Do you also have some links to songs about men kissing other men which you'd like to post as icky things which belong in a conversation about music which should be banned because they're problematic?

I know you're being well-intentioned and benevolenty, but the fact is that it's our job as men to look after women and protect them, from themselves if necessary, surely?

Anyways, the point is it's still assaulty.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

“He hit me and it felt like a kiss
he hit me but it didn’t hurt me
he hit me and I knew he loved me
If he didn’t care for me
I could have never made him mad
but he hit me and I was glad.”

What's the problem with that? She likes it. Bigotry against masochists is still bigotry. Just because you don't personally agree with an individual's lifestyle choices doesn't mean that you therefore have a right to oppress them and not allow them to live how they want and do what they want.

Do you also have some links to songs about men kissing other men which you'd like to post as icky things which belong in a conversation about music which should be banned because they're problematic?

I know you're being well-intentioned and benevolenty, but the fact is that it's our job as men to look after women and protect them, from themselves if necessary, surely?

Anyways, the point is it's still assaulty.

I agree that women can't be trusted to be able to figure out what's best for them and the burden falls to us to mansplain what their real feelings and positions are.

That doesn't change the fact that it doesn't count as assault if she either likes it or can be frightened into not calling the police about it and it undermines actual cases of assault if you try and lump all these instances of non-assault into the definition of the word.

 

[ruby sparks]

That doesn't change the fact that it doesn't count as assault if she either likes it or can be frightened into not calling the police about it and it undermines actual cases of assault if you try and lump all these instances of non-assault into the definition of the word.

In other words it's roughly (excuse pun) as assaulty as 'Baby Its Cold Outside' is rapey?

- - - Updated - - -

I agree that women can't be trusted to be able to figure out what's best for them and the burden falls to us to mansplain what their real feelings and positions are.

Carole King (co-writer) in a radio interview in 2011, said that she was sorry she had ever had anything to do with the song. She was a survivor of repeated domestic abuse.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Hit_Me_(And_It_Felt_Like_a_Kiss)

Which I believe neatly illustrates our point of mutual agreement regarding the need for patriarchal benevolence towards women.

 

[Politesse]

I would describe violent play as being intentionslly assaulty. Some people fetishize rape narratives as well. Why, just last night... wait, never mind.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

That doesn't change the fact that it doesn't count as assault if she either likes it or can be frightened into not calling the police about it and it undermines actual cases of assault if you try and lump all these instances of non-assault into the definition of the word.

In other words it's roughly (excuse pun) as assaulty as 'Baby Its Cold Outside' is rapey?

Well ... no. I mean, there is actually a reference to assault in the song, even though it's a consensual one, so there's a rational argument that a term like "assaulty" could be used to describe it. "Baby It's Cold Outside" is as rapey as "If You're Happy An You Know It". There's not any kind of legitimate comparison between the two songs.