Because I'm Wealthy

[TV and credit cards]

I get what I want. Take what I want.
The beach access is one thing if in the interim the people are allowed to enjoy access while billionaire endlessly spends money on his right to be a pig. Cutting mature trees down is a whole other matter when homeowners know there will be little if any penalty. Removing mature trees from public space is abhorrent in my opinion. The selfishness has deprived generations of the benefit that nature brings. It's not what is right or wrong, legal or not. It's weighing the penalty for doing as I please.

The Ahwahnee hotel in Yosemite does or used to routinely dump their kitchen grease down the drain instead of having it picked up. They would just pay the fine. If you've ever been there in the parking lot and noticed the smell, that's their kitchen grease. You wouldn't think anything could smell worse than the lift stations for the campsite restrooms but mix some kitchen grease in there and it is a godawful stew.

Penalties for such wrongdoing should be reassessed and made better to fit the crime.

Battle over billionaire's private Bay Area beach access goes to trial again

Sydney's tree wars: Greed and harbour views fuel vandalism

 

[robnisch]

Here in Oregun the beach thing is not a problem. You must give access to the beach if you own front property. And river banks are public, also.
Back in the 60's there were bumper stickers " Don't Californicate Oregon"

 

[Harry Bosch]

Here in Oregun the beach thing is not a problem. You must give access to the beach if you own front property. And river banks are public, also.
Back in the 60's there were bumper stickers " Don't Californicate Oregon"

Yes, glad that our beaches are open! Our rivers are open, the banks are not.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The Ahwahnee hotel in Yosemite does or used to routinely dump their kitchen grease down the drain instead of having it picked up. They would just pay the fine. If you've ever been there in the parking lot and noticed the smell, that's their kitchen grease. You wouldn't think anything could smell worse than the lift stations for the campsite restrooms but mix some kitchen grease in there and it is a godawful stew.

Rancid cooking oil is the worst smell on the planet. If one ventures to a WWTP, the rancid cooking oil part is the worse, and it isn't remotely close. I remember drilling a project that past a site that collected rancid cooking oil for disposal. It was awful! The client wanted to put a bike path by it. They were insane. Luckily that alignment wasn't viable (for other reasons).

Penalties for such wrongdoing should be reassessed and made better to fit the crime.

The issue that we see with regulators is that often businesses will just play the system and do whatever they want. In general, if you have competent enough counsel and enough money, you can do whatever you want.

 

[thebeave]

I get what I want. Take what I want.
The beach access is one thing if in the interim the people are allowed to enjoy access while billionaire endlessly spends money on his right to be a pig. Cutting mature trees down is a whole other matter when homeowners know there will be little if any penalty. Removing mature trees from public space is abhorrent in my opinion. The selfishness has deprived generations of the benefit that nature brings. It's not what is right or wrong, legal or not. It's weighing the penalty for doing as I please.

The Ahwahnee hotel in Yosemite does or used to routinely dump their kitchen grease down the drain instead of having it picked up. They would just pay the fine. If you've ever been there in the parking lot and noticed the smell, that's their kitchen grease. You wouldn't think anything could smell worse than the lift stations for the campsite restrooms but mix some kitchen grease in there and it is a godawful stew.

Penalties for such wrongdoing should be reassessed and made better to fit the crime.

Battle over billionaire's private Bay Area beach access goes to trial again

Sydney's tree wars: Greed and harbour views fuel vandalism

Removing mature trees from public space can be both beneficial and abhorrent. It is frequently done, in fact, on federal and state owned land (timber harvesting). It provides wood products for our houses, and when done properly, reduces wildfire risk, destroys invasive beetles, all while maintaining wildlife habitat. So, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Part of the reason we have had such horrific wildfires in California recently is due to lack of forest maintenance and responsible logging, in large part due to environmental extremist actions. On private land, there are generally rules and regulations in place that must be followed before trees can be cut down willy-nilly. Sometimes, too many, IMHO.

I would be surprised if the Awhahnee hotel would be dumping grease down the drain. Its a horrible thing to do, because it clogs drains and is difficult to extract. That hotel has been around a long time, so surely the ill effects of grease down the drain would be well known by now. I used to go to rock climbing in Yosemite a lot in the '90's and early 2000's, and while I didn't ever get a room ($$$!!), I frequently ate breakfast there (blueberry pancakes...yum!), dinner sometimes, (but also $$!) and explored the various shops. I don't really recall the bad grease smell though. Maybe you were smelling the cooking grease/odors from the exhaust fans? Its a beautiful building. My uncle (now mid-80's) used to be a waiter there in the 50's (and was also a "cabin boy" at the Vogelsang High Sierra Camp) and still goes sometimes goes back for the Bracebridge dinner event.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I get what I want. Take what I want.
The beach access is one thing if in the interim the people are allowed to enjoy access while billionaire endlessly spends money on his right to be a pig. Cutting mature trees down is a whole other matter when homeowners know there will be little if any penalty. Removing mature trees from public space is abhorrent in my opinion. The selfishness has deprived generations of the benefit that nature brings. It's not what is right or wrong, legal or not. It's weighing the penalty for doing as I please.

The Ahwahnee hotel in Yosemite does or used to routinely dump their kitchen grease down the drain instead of having it picked up. They would just pay the fine. If you've ever been there in the parking lot and noticed the smell, that's their kitchen grease. You wouldn't think anything could smell worse than the lift stations for the campsite restrooms but mix some kitchen grease in there and it is a godawful stew.

Penalties for such wrongdoing should be reassessed and made better to fit the crime.

Battle over billionaire's private Bay Area beach access goes to trial again

Sydney's tree wars: Greed and harbour views fuel vandalism

Removing mature trees from public space can be both beneficial and abhorrent. It is frequently done, in fact, on federal and state owned land (timber harvesting). It provides wood products for our houses, and when done properly, reduces wildfire risk, destroys invasive beetles, all while maintaining wildlife habitat. So, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. On private land, there are generally rules and regulations in place that must be followed before trees can be cut down willy-nilly. Sometimes, too many, IMHO.

Likely the rules are silly. Wetland stuff drives me up the wall, where viable suburban wetlands are built in and some wetland in the middle of no where, doing no good to anyone, is expanded. Forget about the nonsense that is wetland delineation.

I don't really recall the bad grease smell though. Maybe you were smelling the cooking grease/odors from the exhaust fans?

There is no mistaking rancid oil/grease with a kitchen vent fan!

 

[TV and credit cards]

I get what I want. Take what I want.
The beach access is one thing if in the interim the people are allowed to enjoy access while billionaire endlessly spends money on his right to be a pig. Cutting mature trees down is a whole other matter when homeowners know there will be little if any penalty. Removing mature trees from public space is abhorrent in my opinion. The selfishness has deprived generations of the benefit that nature brings. It's not what is right or wrong, legal or not. It's weighing the penalty for doing as I please.

The Ahwahnee hotel in Yosemite does or used to routinely dump their kitchen grease down the drain instead of having it picked up. They would just pay the fine. If you've ever been there in the parking lot and noticed the smell, that's their kitchen grease. You wouldn't think anything could smell worse than the lift stations for the campsite restrooms but mix some kitchen grease in there and it is a godawful stew.

Penalties for such wrongdoing should be reassessed and made better to fit the crime.

Battle over billionaire's private Bay Area beach access goes to trial again

Sydney's tree wars: Greed and harbour views fuel vandalism

Removing mature trees from public space can be both beneficial and abhorrent. It is frequently done, in fact, on federal and state owned land (timber harvesting). It provides wood products for our houses, and when done properly, reduces wildfire risk, destroys invasive beetles, all while maintaining wildlife habitat. So, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Part of the reason we have had such horrific wildfires in California recently is due to lack of forest maintenance and responsible logging, in large part due to environmental extremist actions. On private land, there are generally rules and regulations in place that must be followed before trees can be cut down willy-nilly. Sometimes, too many, IMHO.

I would be surprised if the Awhahnee hotel would be dumping grease down the drain. Its a horrible thing to do, because it clogs drains and is difficult to extract. That hotel has been around a long time, so surely the ill effects of grease down the drain would be well known by now. I used to go to rock climbing in Yosemite a lot in the '90's and early 2000's, and while I didn't ever get a room ($$$!!), I frequently ate breakfast there (blueberry pancakes...yum!), dinner sometimes, (but also $$!) and explored the various shops. I don't really recall the bad grease smell though. Maybe you were smelling the cooking grease/odors from the exhaust fans? Its a beautiful building. My uncle (now mid-80's) used to be a waiter there in the 50's (and was also a "cabin boy" at the Vogelsang High Sierra Camp) and still goes sometimes goes back for the Bracebridge dinner event.

From the article of what took place in Sydney and the title of the thread, I'm referring to the wealthy removing trees from public spaces because they are spoiling their view not the Forest Service or timber companies.

And at the Awhahnee, at the furthest end of the parking lot, there is a shelter & a couple metal covers for the lift stations. As Jimmy indicated, the smell is unmistakable. I remember one of the guy's having to be lowered down in to the pit to pull the pump up so it could be cleaned. It would clog with grease. We could track the current draw of that pump on our shop software and know when it was time for the dirty deed. Glad I didn't have a wastewater license, hence not qualified for the deed.
The hotel would get fined and just pay it.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

Part of the reason we have had such horrific wildfires in California recently is due to lack of forest maintenance and responsible logging, in large part due to environmental extremist actions.

Zero facts in this statement. The sole reason CA has had such horrific wildfires is due to the drought conditions present from roughly 2012 through last winter. "raking the forest" is a delusion Trump started as thought exercise going into re-election.

aa

 

[RVonse]

I get what I want. Take what I want.
The beach access is one thing if in the interim the people are allowed to enjoy access while billionaire endlessly spends money on his right to be a pig. Cutting mature trees down is a whole other matter when homeowners know there will be little if any penalty. Removing mature trees from public space is abhorrent in my opinion. The selfishness has deprived generations of the benefit that nature brings. It's not what is right or wrong, legal or not. It's weighing the penalty for doing as I please.

The Ahwahnee hotel in Yosemite does or used to routinely dump their kitchen grease down the drain instead of having it picked up. They would just pay the fine. If you've ever been there in the parking lot and noticed the smell, that's their kitchen grease. You wouldn't think anything could smell worse than the lift stations for the campsite restrooms but mix some kitchen grease in there and it is a godawful stew.

Penalties for such wrongdoing should be reassessed and made better to fit the crime.

Battle over billionaire's private Bay Area beach access goes to trial again

Sydney's tree wars: Greed and harbour views fuel vandalism

Not sure I fully understand the beef there is with beach access. Don't the local authorities normally provide zoning for both public and private beach development? And if a parcel of land has been zoned strictly for private development, why should the owner be compelled to provide trespassing through his land? Perhaps I am missing something here.

I fully understand why we would not want all the beaches to be bought and controlled by billionaires because beaches are special and rare. But private property rights should also be respected and if there aren't enough public beaches, private lands should be bought by the government and zoned differently. Otherwise the slippery slope will continue until everyone is compelled to let any stranger enter their backyard unannounced for any reason. As a property owner myself, I wouldn't want that if for no other reason I would not want to clean up litter and be responsible for liability.

So why aren't the local liberal California governments zoning for more public beaches?

 

[robnisch]

I get what I want. Take what I want.
The beach access is one thing if in the interim the people are allowed to enjoy access while billionaire endlessly spends money on his right to be a pig. Cutting mature trees down is a whole other matter when homeowners know there will be little if any penalty. Removing mature trees from public space is abhorrent in my opinion. The selfishness has deprived generations of the benefit that nature brings. It's not what is right or wrong, legal or not. It's weighing the penalty for doing as I please.

The Ahwahnee hotel in Yosemite does or used to routinely dump their kitchen grease down the drain instead of having it picked up. They would just pay the fine. If you've ever been there in the parking lot and noticed the smell, that's their kitchen grease. You wouldn't think anything could smell worse than the lift stations for the campsite restrooms but mix some kitchen grease in there and it is a godawful stew.

Penalties for such wrongdoing should be reassessed and made better to fit the crime.

Battle over billionaire's private Bay Area beach access goes to trial again

Sydney's tree wars: Greed and harbour views fuel vandalism

Not sure I fully understand the beef there is with beach access. Don't the local authorities normally provide zoning for both public and private beach development? And if a parcel of land has been zoned strictly for private development, why should the owner be compelled to provide trespassing through his land? Perhaps I am missing something here.

I fully understand why we would not want all the beaches to be bought and controlled by billionaires because beaches are special and rare. But private property rights should also be respected and if there aren't enough public beaches, private lands should be bought by the government and zoned differently. Otherwise the slippery slope will continue until everyone is compelled to let any stranger enter their backyard unannounced for any reason. As a property owner myself, I wouldn't want that if for no other reason I would not want to clean up litter and be responsible for liability.

So why aren't the local liberal California governments zoning for more public beaches?

Californacation!!!

 

[TV and credit cards]

I get what I want. Take what I want.
The beach access is one thing if in the interim the people are allowed to enjoy access while billionaire endlessly spends money on his right to be a pig. Cutting mature trees down is a whole other matter when homeowners know there will be little if any penalty. Removing mature trees from public space is abhorrent in my opinion. The selfishness has deprived generations of the benefit that nature brings. It's not what is right or wrong, legal or not. It's weighing the penalty for doing as I please.

The Ahwahnee hotel in Yosemite does or used to routinely dump their kitchen grease down the drain instead of having it picked up. They would just pay the fine. If you've ever been there in the parking lot and noticed the smell, that's their kitchen grease. You wouldn't think anything could smell worse than the lift stations for the campsite restrooms but mix some kitchen grease in there and it is a godawful stew.

Penalties for such wrongdoing should be reassessed and made better to fit the crime.

Battle over billionaire's private Bay Area beach access goes to trial again

Sydney's tree wars: Greed and harbour views fuel vandalism

Not sure I fully understand the beef there is with beach access. Don't the local authorities normally provide zoning for both public and private beach development? And if a parcel of land has been zoned strictly for private development, why should the owner be compelled to provide trespassing through his land? Perhaps I am missing something here.

I fully understand why we would not want all the beaches to be bought and controlled by billionaires because beaches are special and rare. But private property rights should also be respected and if there aren't enough public beaches, private lands should be bought by the government and zoned differently. Otherwise the slippery slope will continue until everyone is compelled to let any stranger enter their backyard unannounced for any reason. As a property owner myself, I wouldn't want that if for no other reason I would not want to clean up litter and be responsible for liability.

So why aren't the local liberal California governments zoning for more public beaches?

It would depend on the particulars of the governing laws there. CA Coastal Act protects public public access to beaches (about 1000 yds from high tide). While there may be a need for commercial/industrial use of the coast, a homeowner can hardly make such a claim.
Also, from the article, it sounds like any private rights grandfathered in may have been ceded when a previous owner allowed public access.
But Mr. Billionaire can obviously afford to fight this until the cows come home.

In 2018, a decade after Khosla bought the property, the U.S. Supreme Court declined his appeal, seemingly handing Martins Beach back to the public for good. But the next year, a San Francisco district appeals court ruled in favor of Khosla.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Part of the reason we have had such horrific wildfires in California recently is due to lack of forest maintenance and responsible logging, in large part due to environmental extremist actions.

Zero facts in this statement. The sole reason CA has had such horrific wildfires is due to the drought conditions present from roughly 2012 through last winter. "raking the forest" is a delusion Trump started as thought exercise going into re-election.

aa

Weren't the fires often in grasslands as well? Paradise, CA, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't surrounded by a forest.

 

[thebeave]

Part of the reason we have had such horrific wildfires in California recently is due to lack of forest maintenance and responsible logging, in large part due to environmental extremist actions.

Zero facts in this statement. The sole reason CA has had such horrific wildfires is due to the drought conditions present from roughly 2012 through last winter. "raking the forest" is a delusion Trump started as thought exercise going into re-election.

aa

Well, as in the case of most disasters, there are usually multiple factors at work, some natural, some manmade, which is why I said "part of the reason". Rarely is there a "sole reason". There is no doubt that the forests in California have been mismanaged and neglected for a long time, and that that has contributed to the massive fires as well:

Decades of mismanagement led to choked forests — now it's time to clear them out, fire experts say

The state’s policy to stop fires as soon as they ignite resulted in a backlog of trees in forests now choked with brush and other dry fuels. According to the U.S. Forest Service, one researcher studying the Stanislaus National Forest in Northern California found records from 1911 showing just 19 trees per acre in one section of the forest. More than a century later, the researcher and his team counted 260 trees per acre.

With denser tree cover comes the danger of bigger fires, Rogers said.

“We have more large trees per acre than we’ve ever had because they have continued to grow, and underneath these large trees are young shrubs that fuel fires in the crown of the trees,” he said. “When a fire starts in there, it’s unstoppable.”

With regard to what Trump said, you can see for yourself, here, his exact words... "Raking, cleaning and other things". There are various rakes that can be attached to bulldozers and used to clear wood debris from the forest floor, (though they are more common in flatter terrain, whereas California has a lot of steep terrain where bulldozer rakes are not practical.) Prescribed fires (aka "control burns") are a more popular method here in California (one of the "other things"), though, to clear the forest floor of debris. And hand rakes do have their place in smaller areas, particularly around houses. Homeowners living in forested areas of California are supposed to maintain a 100 ft defensible space around their homes, and rakes are often used to achieve that (though, with a massive, hot fire like the Camp Fire in Paradise, its questionable whether that 100 ft zone would have done any good).

 

[thebeave]

Part of the reason we have had such horrific wildfires in California recently is due to lack of forest maintenance and responsible logging, in large part due to environmental extremist actions.

Zero facts in this statement. The sole reason CA has had such horrific wildfires is due to the drought conditions present from roughly 2012 through last winter. "raking the forest" is a delusion Trump started as thought exercise going into re-election.

aa

Weren't the fires often in grasslands as well? Paradise, CA, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't surrounded by a forest.

Paradise was most definitely not in grasslands.

 

[TSwizzle]

Part of the reason we have had such horrific wildfires in California recently is due to lack of forest maintenance and responsible logging, in large part due to environmental extremist actions.

Zero facts in this statement. The sole reason CA has had such horrific wildfires is due to the drought conditions present from roughly 2012 through last winter. "raking the forest" is a delusion Trump started as thought exercise going into re-election.

There is far more to forest management than "raking the forest". Newsom has done a terrible job and blames his incompetence on climate change. An easy out for the insufferable prick.

 

[laughing dog]

Part of the reason we have had such horrific wildfires in California recently is due to lack of forest maintenance and responsible logging, in large part due to environmental extremist actions.

Zero facts in this statement. The sole reason CA has had such horrific wildfires is due to the drought conditions present from roughly 2012 through last winter. "raking the forest" is a delusion Trump started as thought exercise going into re-election.

There is far more to forest management than "raking the forest". Newsom has done a terrible job and blames his incompetence on climate change. An easy out for the insufferable prick.

Yup. Gavin always fell back on yelling "its climate change, its climate change!*" during the wildfires, but notice that later he added a bunch of money to help with forest management and fire risk mitigation (which is needed). If its all due to climate change, Gavin, what point is there to fixing the forests?

Governor Newsom Signs State Budget Bill

* said in his typical gravely Krusty the Klown voice

Because cost-effective reducing of the risk of destruction to life, property and the environment makes sense regardless of the cause.

 

[thebeave]

Part of the reason we have had such horrific wildfires in California recently is due to lack of forest maintenance and responsible logging, in large part due to environmental extremist actions.

Zero facts in this statement. The sole reason CA has had such horrific wildfires is due to the drought conditions present from roughly 2012 through last winter. "raking the forest" is a delusion Trump started as thought exercise going into re-election.

There is far more to forest management than "raking the forest". Newsom has done a terrible job and blames his incompetence on climate change. An easy out for the insufferable prick.

Yup. Gavin always fell back on yelling "its climate change, its climate change!*" during the wildfires, but notice that later he added a bunch of money to help with forest management and fire risk mitigation (which is needed). If its all due to climate change, Gavin, what point is there to fixing the forests?

Governor Newsom Signs State Budget Bill

* said in his typical gravely Krusty the Klown voice

Because cost-effective reducing of the risk of destruction to life, property and the environment makes sense regardless of the cause.

I deleted the message before you posted this, as he did at times, to his credit mention the need for fire risk mitigation and the poor health of the forests, so I was a little too harsh on him. His emphasis on climate change, though, was tedious, political and a bit "lecturey" to people who had just suffered a great loss.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

Part of the reason we have had such horrific wildfires in California recently is due to lack of forest maintenance and responsible logging, in large part due to environmental extremist actions.

Zero facts in this statement. The sole reason CA has had such horrific wildfires is due to the drought conditions present from roughly 2012 through last winter. "raking the forest" is a delusion Trump started as thought exercise going into re-election.

aa

Weren't the fires often in grasslands as well? Paradise, CA, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't surrounded by a forest.

Paradise was most definitely not in grasslands.

Basically anything south of Santa Cruz has wildfires fueled primarily by scrub brush (Woolsey, Camp, Malibu etc). There are some wooded areas in Big Bear and Mammoth, but they make their own snow so more draught resistant.

Paradise was farther north (near Reno) and in a forested area.

aa

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

Part of the reason we have had such horrific wildfires in California recently is due to lack of forest maintenance and responsible logging, in large part due to environmental extremist actions.

Zero facts in this statement. The sole reason CA has had such horrific wildfires is due to the drought conditions present from roughly 2012 through last winter. "raking the forest" is a delusion Trump started as thought exercise going into re-election.

There is far more to forest management than "raking the forest". Newsom has done a terrible job and blames his incompetence on climate change. An easy out for the insufferable prick.

Yes, I'm certain Newsom would have been the pride of the republican party had he only spent tax-payer money on completely ineffective wildfire management strategies.

aa

 

[Politesse]

Here in Oregun the beach thing is not a problem. You must give access to the beach if you own front property. And river banks are public, also.
Back in the 60's there were bumper stickers " Don't Californicate Oregon"

California is supposed to be the same way, the very wealthy just refuse to honor the law in any sense, happily preferring lawsuits to voluntarily sharing "their" beaches.