Berkeley "liberals" contra free speech

[Jolly_Penguin]

The LGBLT Q lobby needs a better name. The letters keep increasing and looking more and more like a bad sandwich.

The name is called human.

But these people are fighting against the idea that they are somehow a lower form. Deprived rights all humans should have.

Deprivation of rights begins when harm is done. Not through consensual non-harmful behavior.

If they called themselves human they may get some more traction and be taken more seriously. But they don't call themselves human. They call themselves a sandwich.

And it doesn't help when they then insist we use their choice of numerous invented pronouns.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

He would only be offended because his passion is black men and not bikers

However if you described one of the LGBT persons in that way there would be claims of homophobia and bias. Yes/No.

I reacted to the same. It's like if anybody in any minority would ever dare leave the left liberal camp it's now suddenly kosher for liberals to have a go at them just like any conservative redneck would. I've seen it many times. Always as distressing. Because it shows how much liberal values often are thin thin varnish on top of good ol' racist homophobia. I'm not saying liberals are worse than conservatives. I don't. But there's just so much in the left that is performance. Opinions for show. No shit Trump won. Liberals are strangling themselves with their own pc bullshit.

I don't understand what does this have to do with the cartoon?

 

[untermensche]

Suppose you were king and you were given a choice from your enemy. Prevent one person in one place from speaking one time OR let one of your citizens die. Even if you knew that the killer would be caught and face justice, is that one temporary freedom of one person worth the permanent life of the other?

It isn't about one speech one time. The university has now sent the message that the next time anybody wants a speaker not to speak, violence is the answer. This doesnt prevent further violence. This encourages further violence.

The message is simply that speakers like this cost more to the University in terms of extra security.

Why is everything in "right-world" some exaggerated fantasy?

 

[whichphilosophy]

The Loony Tunes attached to the Democrats are not necessary Democrats and likewise Republicans. The violent demonstrators are usually Anarchists riding piggy back.

They are people who call themselves anarchists.

Who and what they are is not known.

It is clear that all some thug has to do is say they are an anarchist and many condemn the left as if mindless robots born yesterday.

True Anarchists are not likely to be part of a mob, they are highly individualistic.

And most see non-violent resistance as the only hope in today's world where the power of the government over the people is so much greater than it was in 1776. Violent resistance to most Anarchists is seen as counter-productive and merely a way to lose any credibility and give the government license to use violence in response.

Anybody can call themselves an Anarchist or a Muslim. It doesn't mean they represent the group or ideals of the group as a whole at all.

The mobs causing the problems are not representative of the students. Violence against anarchists would backfire.

 

[untermensche]

The name is called human.

But these people are fighting against the idea that they are somehow a lower form. Deprived rights all humans should have.

Deprivation of rights begins when harm is done. Not through consensual non-harmful behavior.

If they called themselves human they may get some more traction and be taken more seriously. But they don't call themselves human. They call themselves a sandwich.

And it doesn't help when they then insist we use their choice of numerous invented pronouns.

The point that they are denied rights on illegitimate grounds seems to elude you.

They are pointing out to people like you who exactly is facing some kind of prejudice and even legal exclusions.

 

[untermensche]

They are people who call themselves anarchists.

Who and what they are is not known.

It is clear that all some thug has to do is say they are an anarchist and many condemn the left as if mindless robots born yesterday.

True Anarchists are not likely to be part of a mob, they are highly individualistic.

And most see non-violent resistance as the only hope in today's world where the power of the government over the people is so much greater than it was in 1776. Violent resistance to most Anarchists is seen as counter-productive and merely a way to lose any credibility and give the government license to use violence in response.

Anybody can call themselves an Anarchist or a Muslim. It doesn't mean they represent the group or ideals of the group as a whole at all.

The mobs causing the problems are not representative of the students. Violence against anarchists would backfire.

Governmental violence against the OWS movement did not backfire.

Most Americans passively accepted it or endorsed it.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I reacted to the same. It's like if anybody in any minority would ever dare leave the left liberal camp it's now suddenly kosher for liberals to have a go at them just like any conservative redneck would. I've seen it many times. Always as distressing. Because it shows how much liberal values often are thin thin varnish on top of good ol' racist homophobia. I'm not saying liberals are worse than conservatives. I don't. But there's just so much in the left that is performance. Opinions for show. No shit Trump won. Liberals are strangling themselves with their own pc bullshit.

I don't understand what does this have to do with the cartoon?

That gays are ikky because they all have anal sex and therefore just pointing this out is amusing. He's also painted like an effiminate queen. Which I guess is also supposed to be funny? It implies that all the Conservative leaders are secretly gay and has sex with Yiannopolus. This is also supposed to be funny and humiliating for them. The cartoon plays on the age old idea that gay men weak because they behave like women. Being a woman is lower status than a man. So any man behaving like a woman is funny and rediculous.

Did I miss anything in this homophobic and misogynistic cartoon?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It isn't about one speech one time. The university has now sent the message that the next time anybody wants a speaker not to speak, violence is the answer. This doesnt prevent further violence. This encourages further violence.

The message is simply that speakers like this cost more to the University in terms of extra security.

Why is everything in "right-world" some exaggerated fantasy?

Security that the police should be providing, and regardless of the ideology of the speaker. This isn't about right or left. This is about terrorism and freedom of speech.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

If they called themselves human they may get some more traction and be taken more seriously. But they don't call themselves human. They call themselves a sandwich.

And it doesn't help when they then insist we use their choice of numerous invented pronouns.

The point that they are denied rights on illegitimate grounds seems to elude you.

Why do you think that eludes me? That has nothing to do with the point I made and that you quoted. Because I wasn't writing what you want me to write doesn't mean I disagree with what you want me to write. Is there a name for that logical fallacy?

They are pointing out to people like you who exactly is facing some kind of prejudice and even legal exclusions.

To people like me? What is your prejudice about people "like me"? I can't tell if you are about to go racist or trying to attribute homophobia to me without reason.

 

[untermensche]

The message is simply that speakers like this cost more to the University in terms of extra security.

Why is everything in "right-world" some exaggerated fantasy?

Security that the police should be providing, and regardless of the ideology of the speaker. This isn't about right or left. This is about terrorism and freedom of speech.

The local police are not required to provide free security for any event.

The people sponsoring the event are responsible for the safety of all people because of the event.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

That gays are ikky because they all have anal sex and therefore just pointing this out is amusing. He's also painted like an effiminate queen. Which I guess is also supposed to be funny?

He does do drag.

It implies that all the Conservative leaders are secretly gay and has sex with Yiannopolus.

It does? I just thought it implied he'd sell himself out to be with famous people.

This is also supposed to be funny and humiliating for them. The cartoon plays on the age old idea that gay men weak because they behave like women. Being a woman is lower status than a man. So any man behaving like a woman is funny and rediculous.

We must be from different cultures, I see nothing referring to weakness in that cartoon. I see no commentary on women. Milo lives on shock value.

 

[untermensche]

The point that they are denied rights on illegitimate grounds seems to elude you.

Why do you think that eludes me? That has nothing to do with the point I made and that you quoted. Because I wasn't writing what you want me to write doesn't mean I disagree with what you want me to write. Is there a name for that logical fallacy?

They are pointing out to people like you who exactly is facing some kind of prejudice and even legal exclusions.

To people like me? What is your prejudice about people "like me"? I can't tell if you are about to go racist or trying to attribute homophobia to me without reason.

People like you, that somehow find a few letters disturbing.

When I use the term "people like" it means "people who think like", not "people who are like".

 

[whichphilosophy]

I reacted to the same. It's like if anybody in any minority would ever dare leave the left liberal camp it's now suddenly kosher for liberals to have a go at them just like any conservative redneck would. I've seen it many times. Always as distressing. Because it shows how much liberal values often are thin thin varnish on top of good ol' racist homophobia. I'm not saying liberals are worse than conservatives. I don't. But there's just so much in the left that is performance. Opinions for show. No shit Trump won. Liberals are strangling themselves with their own pc bullshit.

I don't understand what does this have to do with the cartoon?

The irony is the demeaning of an openly gay person's sexuality because he is right wing of Trotsky. If this was said to a non Trump advocate there would be riots in the streets. This would be the kettle calling the pot black.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Why do you think that eludes me? That has nothing to do with the point I made and that you quoted. Because I wasn't writing what you want me to write doesn't mean I disagree with what you want me to write. Is there a name for that logical fallacy?

They are pointing out to people like you who exactly is facing some kind of prejudice and even legal exclusions.

To people like me? What is your prejudice about people "like me"? I can't tell if you are about to go racist or trying to attribute homophobia to me without reason.

People like you, that somehow find a few letters disturbing.

I didn't write that it is disturbing. I wrote that it is ineffective and stupid. As is demanding I call them by some newly invented pronoun.

 

[whichphilosophy]

He does do drag.

It implies that all the Conservative leaders are secretly gay and has sex with Yiannopolus.

It does? I just thought it implied he'd sell himself out to be with famous people.

This is also supposed to be funny and humiliating for them. The cartoon plays on the age old idea that gay men weak because they behave like women. Being a woman is lower status than a man. So any man behaving like a woman is funny and rediculous.

We must be from different cultures, I see nothing referring to weakness in that cartoon. I see no commentary on women. Milo lives on shock value.

That's a good one.

 

[untermensche]

Why do you think that eludes me? That has nothing to do with the point I made and that you quoted. Because I wasn't writing what you want me to write doesn't mean I disagree with what you want me to write. Is there a name for that logical fallacy?

They are pointing out to people like you who exactly is facing some kind of prejudice and even legal exclusions.

To people like me? What is your prejudice about people "like me"? I can't tell if you are about to go racist or trying to attribute homophobia to me without reason.

People like you, that somehow find a few letters disturbing.

I didn't write that it is disturbing. I wrote that it is ineffective and stupid. As is demanding I call them by some newly invented pronoun.

Maybe so-called stupid things are not disturbing to you?

But it seems about the lowest form of commentary possible.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Security that the police should be providing, and regardless of the ideology of the speaker. This isn't about right or left. This is about terrorism and freedom of speech.

The local police are not required to provide free security for any event.

The people sponsoring the event are responsible for the safety of all people because of the event.

It depends on the nature of the safety. If the threat is ideological, then the state should provide whatever protection is necessary. Any cancellation for ideological reasons is a win for terror and a lose for democracy

 

[untermensche]

The local police are not required to provide free security for any event.

The people sponsoring the event are responsible for the safety of all people because of the event.

It depends on the nature of the safety. If the threat is ideological, then the state should provide whatever protection is necessary. Any cancellation for ideological reasons is a win for terror and a lose for democracy

It is an event. Arbitrary and temporary.

I can't hold an event with a lot of people and demand the police provide security.

 

[DrZoidberg]

He does do drag.

Which is a gay tradition that stems from the gay rights movement, Stonewall and Pride. Every self respecting gay will at some point do drag. This has nothing to do with being transvestites. It's no different than an American patriot wrapping themselves up in an American flag. Doing drag is a symbol of gay right, gay freedom and liberty.

But that's not the issue here. The issue is that in order to make fun of him he's painted as effiminate. What's up with that?

It implies that all the Conservative leaders are secretly gay and has sex with Yiannopolus.

It does? I just thought it implied he'd sell himself out to be with famous people.

Ehe. How is allowing yourself to be penetrated by a penis implying some sort of selling out? Are all women whores? That is what you are saying, isn't it? We casually use misogynist and homophobic phrases in our culture so often that we're blind to them. Conservatives can be excused for the ignorance. But liberals can't. This cartoon came from liberals.

You know, the patriarchy opressing women really is a thing. The biggest problem with the opression is that we're not aware of it happening even when we are. It makes it very hard to talk about. Your example shows this.

This is also supposed to be funny and humiliating for them. The cartoon plays on the age old idea that gay men weak because they behave like women. Being a woman is lower status than a man. So any man behaving like a woman is funny and rediculous.

We must be from different cultures, I see nothing referring to weakness in that cartoon. I see no commentary on women. Milo lives on shock value.

How about reading about the women's rights movement in your own culture. You might learn something

 

[Derec]

Yvette Felarca, a radical leftist schoolteacher from Berkeley, admits that she was among those who caused violence at Berkeley to shut down speech they don't like.