Bernie Can't Win

[Derec]

What is up with Bernie's comment about whites not understanding what is like to be poor like blacks?

I thought he was more skilled than that. Damn!

Yeah that was pretty stupid.

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Yeah, I cringed at that, too, but I think it's a no-brainer, if you've ever listened to Bernie Sanders speak at all before last night, to see that he meant rich, white people.

But it would equally apply to rich black people. Experience of poverty is not something passed on genetically, let alone in the same genes responsible for melanin.

 

[Angry Floof]

Yeah that was pretty stupid.

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Yeah, I cringed at that, too, but I think it's a no-brainer, if you've ever listened to Bernie Sanders speak at all before last night, to see that he meant rich, white people.

But it would equally apply to rich black people. Experience of poverty is not something passed on genetically, let alone in the same genes responsible for melanin.

The point is that differences in social status create blind spots in the groups with the highest status whether that be income or skin color or anything else that gives social power to various demographics in our culture.

And the people with power, be it social, economic, or political power, drive and shape the system for everyone. More precisely, it's the accumulation of the choices and actions of the people with power that shape the system, and few people are even remotely aware of how their own attitudes drive their actions in that cycle.

It's a very impersonal thing that most people take way too personally, which is easy to understand when someone's being called a racist or a misogynist or entitled or greedy or whatever. But unwillingness to recognize one's own contributions to an unfair system is what keeps it firmly in place.

 

[Blahface]

I'm glad Bernie came out harder on Hillary last night, but he really bungled that.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm glad Bernie came out harder on Hillary last night, but he really bungled that.

Ya, if he can't even manage to insult Clinton competently, how would he possibly fare on a stage with Donald Trump? It's lucky for your country that he won't be on that stage.

 

[Blahface]

I'm glad Bernie came out harder on Hillary last night, but he really bungled that.

Ya, if he can't even manage to insult Clinton competently, how would he possibly fare on a stage with Donald Trump? It's lucky for your country that he won't be on that stage.

I meant that he bungled the debate as a whole - not the attacking part.

 

[Derec]

The point is that differences in social status create blind spots in the groups with the highest status whether that be income or skin color or anything else that gives social power to various demographics in our culture.

And the people with power, be it social, economic, or political power, drive and shape the system for everyone. More precisely, it's the accumulation of the choices and actions of the people with power that shape the system, and few people are even remotely aware of how their own attitudes drive their actions in that cycle.

It's a very impersonal thing that most people take way too personally, which is easy to understand when someone's being called a racist or a misogynist or entitled or greedy or whatever. But unwillingness to recognize one's own contributions to an unfair system is what keeps it firmly in place.

None of which shows why a rich white person would understand poverty any less than a rich black person.

 

[Angry Floof]

The point is that differences in social status create blind spots in the groups with the highest status whether that be income or skin color or anything else that gives social power to various demographics in our culture.

And the people with power, be it social, economic, or political power, drive and shape the system for everyone. More precisely, it's the accumulation of the choices and actions of the people with power that shape the system, and few people are even remotely aware of how their own attitudes drive their actions in that cycle.

It's a very impersonal thing that most people take way too personally, which is easy to understand when someone's being called a racist or a misogynist or entitled or greedy or whatever. But unwillingness to recognize one's own contributions to an unfair system is what keeps it firmly in place.

None of which shows why a rich white person would understand poverty any less than a rich black person.

I wrote that post, not Tom Sawyer.

Again, the point of the comment is that people who enjoy any level of privilege don't easily see the plight of others who do not enjoy the same social status.

No one said all rich people were always rich or that no white people have ever been poor. Bernie's statement was an obvious flub. To justify latching onto this statement as being racist or his having no understanding of race issues, you have to be completely unaware of his views and how he thinks and you have to take it out of context.

It takes extra effort and extra glucose to challenge yourself to notice when and how you might be benefiting from a system that is unfair to others while catering to you. Some people do that, most won't. If you're not that special kind of Socrates who can rigorously examine your own thoughts and attitudes, then it would take some kind of discomfort or conflict for a person enjoying privilege to think twice about it, or to even acknowledge it at all.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I wrote that post, not Tom Sawyer.

Hey, it was a well written and intelligent post. If somebody wants to attribute it to me, just let them.

 

[fromderinside]

... why a rich white person would understand poverty any less than a rich black person.

Thanks for asking. :devil-smiley-029:

The answer is simply the likelihood that a black person came from poor beginnings is much greater than that a white man came from poor beginnings. Simple demographic statistics my man. NAMACE

 

[ksen]

The point is that differences in social status create blind spots in the groups with the highest status whether that be income or skin color or anything else that gives social power to various demographics in our culture.

And the people with power, be it social, economic, or political power, drive and shape the system for everyone. More precisely, it's the accumulation of the choices and actions of the people with power that shape the system, and few people are even remotely aware of how their own attitudes drive their actions in that cycle.

It's a very impersonal thing that most people take way too personally, which is easy to understand when someone's being called a racist or a misogynist or entitled or greedy or whatever. But unwillingness to recognize one's own contributions to an unfair system is what keeps it firmly in place.

None of which shows why a rich white person would understand poverty any less than a rich black person.

Presumably a rich, black person still gets looked at more suspiciously by society and its power structures than a rich, white person and that would be magnified even more the further you go down the income scale.

 

[Angry Floof]

None of which shows why a rich white person would understand poverty any less than a rich black person.

Presumably a rich, black person still gets looked at more suspiciously by society and its power structures than a rich, white person and that would be magnified even more the further you go down the income scale.

And few white people would be able to fully relate to that.

The majority of non-blacks in the world are decent humans who, when we hear or see the injustices that blacks face in the US, we care and commiserate and get outraged. But we can't live it. We have to check our blind spots as we go.

And that's just the more conscientious of us white people. There's millions of uneducated, culturally myopic white people who just won't grasp what's going on. On top of that, they have Fox News telling them blacks deserve punishment and marginalization.

 

[fromderinside]

Presumably a rich, black person still gets looked at more suspiciously by society and its power structures than a rich, white person and that would be magnified even more the further you go down the income scale.

And few white people would be able to fully relate to that.

The majority of non-blacks in the world are decent humans who, when we hear or see the injustices that blacks face in the US, we care and commiserate and get outraged. But we can't live it. We have to check our blind spots as we go.

And that's just the more conscientious of us while people. There's millions of uneducated, culturally myopic white people who just won't grasp what's going on. On top of that, they have Fox News telling them blacks deserve punishment and marginalization.

I think women have a pretty good handle on being discriminated against. Several times a day I'm reminded how my wife and I are treated differently particularly with respect to controlling ones' life and consequences. I'd support more women, particularly rainbow women, being elected and appointed to positions that impact law and society.

 

[Angry Floof]

 

[untermensche]

What is up with Bernie's comment about whites not understanding what is like to be poor like blacks?

I thought he was more skilled than that. Damn!

You need to provide a full quote to get any rational discussion.

"When you’re white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto. You don’t know what it’s like to be poor. You don’t know what it’s like to be hassled when you walk down the street or you get dragged out of a car,"

The first line states a historical fact that whites have enjoyed greater freedom of movement and have not been economically and through things like "red lining" been pushed into racial ghettos.

There are of course many poor whites. Perhaps he should say you don't know what it's like to be both poor and a racial minority that experiences systemic and personal prejudice.

And the third point is about police harassment, and it is a good point.

Ultimately I think Bernie is trying to talk to the conscience of white Americans and ask them if they would want to trade places with a poor black women living in a ghetto, and if not then the ghetto must be eliminated.

Right now the US is using prison to hide it's problem with black Americans.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Retweeted The Associated Press (@AP):
BREAKING: Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic presidential primary in Michigan. @AP race call at 11:30 p.m. EST. ‪#‎Election2016‬ ‪#‎APracecall‬

 

[repoman]

Right now the US is using prison to hide it's problem with black Americans.

Yeah, a lot of blacks are being warehoused. Pretty pathetic.

 

[Derec]

Right now the US is using prison to hide it's problem with black Americans.

Yeah, a lot of blacks are being warehoused. Pretty pathetic.

Warehoused?

By the way, how many of these prisoners do you think are actually innocent? Is it somehow wrong to imprison people guilty of actual crimes?

 

[repoman]

I wonder if Sander's problem with mass media has to do with wanting to get money out of politics.

Is the money that these TV stations get from political ads that much compared to their entire ad revenue?

 

[Derec]

The first line states a historical fact that whites have enjoyed greater freedom of movement and have not been economically and through things like "red lining" been pushed into racial ghettos.

Actually for decades there has been a federal law that prohibits housing discrimination. It does not prohibit not renting to people based on rental, credit or criminal history though.

There are of course many poor whites. Perhaps he should say you don't know what it's like to be both poor and a racial minority that experiences systemic and personal prejudice.

But there have been many benefits open to minorities. So-called "affirmative action" in college admissions and hiring (government agencies around here are 70% black at least) for example.

And the third point is about police harassment, and it is a good point.

Ultimately I think Bernie is trying to talk to the conscience of white Americans and ask them if they would want to trade places with a poor black women living in a ghetto, and if not then the ghetto must be eliminated.

What exactly is ghetto in modern American parlance (as opposed to originally, where it referred to walled-off Jewish quarters in Europe, like in Venice)?" Just bad neighborhoods? Or is there more? Take for example the expression "ghetto fabulous" that refers to conspicuous consumption among many urban blacks. Would that they used that money they waste on things like spinners or $200 kicks or $100 hair jobs or whatever and, I don't know, save to move to better neighborhoods.

And besides, many "ghettos" are being eliminated through gentrification. But of course, that is somehow bad too. As Brian and Jesus said, there is no pleasing some people.

 

[J842P]

Yeah, a lot of blacks are being warehoused. Pretty pathetic.

Warehoused?

By the way, how many of these prisoners do you think are actually innocent? Is it somehow wrong to imprison people guilty of actual crimes?

When a large percentage of those crimes consist of using and selling drugs, then yes.