Bernie Will Have Trump Elected President

[Tom Sawyer]

The down ticket races are where Sanders can really help. I don't think that does a whole lot for his leverage with Clinton, however. She doesn't strike me as someone who particularly cares whether she's negotiating right wing policies with a GOP congress or left wing policies with a Dem congress, just so long as she's in the Oval Office doing the negotiating - and there's essentially zero chance that she'll end up anywhere other than that.

Trump's main strategy at this point seems to be turning off as many people as possible about this election so that they stay home in disgust and his passionate base of supporters turn out to be enough to eke out a win. That strategy won't work well enough to get him elected, but it might work well enough to keep congress red. Sanders can effectively counter that possibility by getting his people out to the polls. He doesn't need to endorse her in order to do that, but it does make the job easier and if the party is still at odds, far more people will just grumble and stay home. He did enough to be able to make a massive difference in Dem policy and he can now work to keep that influence or grumble himself and let it slip away.

 

[Horatio Parker]

The down ticket races are where Sanders can really help. I don't think that does a whole lot for his leverage with Clinton, however. She doesn't strike me as someone who particularly cares whether she's negotiating right wing policies with a GOP congress or left wing policies with a Dem congress, just so long as she's in the Oval Office doing the negotiating - and there's essentially zero chance that she'll end up anywhere other than that.

Trump's main strategy at this point seems to be turning off as many people as possible about this election so that they stay home in disgust and his passionate base of supporters turn out to be enough to eke out a win. That strategy won't work well enough to get him elected, but it might work well enough to keep congress red. Sanders can effectively counter that possibility by getting his people out to the polls. He doesn't need to endorse her in order to do that, but it does make the job easier and if the party is still at odds, far more people will just grumble and stay home. He did enough to be able to make a massive difference in Dem policy and he can now work to keep that influence or grumble himself and let it slip away.

I don't think Bernie would be behaving any differently from HRC if the positions were reversed. Bernie is a victim of the campaigns dynamics i.e. Trumps loss is HRCs gain.

And he will certainly endorse her.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

And he will certainly endorse her.

Ya, he will eventually and his main role in the campaign will continue to be that of an outsider who can motivate voting by those who are underwhelmed by Clinton but like left wing policies. My point is that if he'd gone to Clinton a week ago and said "I will play this role for you in exchange for X, Y and Z", she'd have agreed to it no matter what X, Y and Z happened to be. In response to the obvious first question about that, the answer is yes - Bill Clinton could definitely sweet talk Ivanka Trump into sleeping with Bernie Sanders - the man is that charming.

Now, however, when Sanders makes demands in exchange for an endorsement, Clinton can just say that she'll get back to him next week sometime and then have a staffer call him back with a watered down offer like Trump's other daughter who's more cute than gorgeous.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The down ticket races are where Sanders can really help. I don't think that does a whole lot for his leverage with Clinton, however. She doesn't strike me as someone who particularly cares whether she's negotiating right wing policies with a GOP congress or left wing policies with a Dem congress, just so long as she's in the Oval Office doing the negotiating - and there's essentially zero chance that she'll end up anywhere other than that.

Trump's main strategy at this point seems to be turning off as many people as possible about this election so that they stay home in disgust and his passionate base of supporters turn out to be enough to eke out a win. That strategy won't work well enough to get him elected, but it might work well enough to keep congress red. Sanders can effectively counter that possibility by getting his people out to the polls. He doesn't need to endorse her in order to do that, but it does make the job easier and if the party is still at odds, far more people will just grumble and stay home. He did enough to be able to make a massive difference in Dem policy and he can now work to keep that influence or grumble himself and let it slip away.

I don't think Bernie would be behaving any differently from HRC if the positions were reversed. Bernie is a victim of the campaigns dynamics i.e. Trumps loss is HRCs gain.

And he will certainly endorse her.

I don't believe that. Hillary Clinton has already made a couple concessions.

 

[fromderinside]

Now, however, when Sanders makes demands in exchange for an endorsement, Clinton can just say that she'll get back to him next week sometime and then have a staffer call him back with a watered down offer like Trump's other daughter who's more cute than gorgeous.

Not if she actually wants Bernie to work hard bringing in his flock work and vote for her.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Now, however, when Sanders makes demands in exchange for an endorsement, Clinton can just say that she'll get back to him next week sometime and then have a staffer call him back with a watered down offer like Trump's other daughter who's more cute than gorgeous.

Not if she actually wants Bernie to work hard bringing in his flock work and vote for her.

Yes, welcome to page one of the thread. My point is that this is far less of an important consideration for her today than it was a week ago. Therefore the concessions which he can get in return for this are less than he'd have been able to get a week ago.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not if she actually wants Bernie to work hard bringing in his flock work and vote for her.

Yes, welcome to page one of the thread. My point is that this is far less of an important consideration for her today than it was a week ago. Therefore the concessions which he can get in return for this are less than he'd have been able to get a week ago.

Yes, because Hillary Clinton wants a psychotic right-wing controlled Congress and a Senate that is 51 to 49 for the Dems.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yes, welcome to page one of the thread. My point is that this is far less of an important consideration for her today than it was a week ago. Therefore the concessions which he can get in return for this are less than he'd have been able to get a week ago.

Yes, because Hillary Clinton wants a psychotic right-wing controlled Congress and a Senate that is 51 to 49 for the Dems.

No, she'd far prefer a Dem congress and she'll give Sanders concessions in order to have his help getting that. However, she needs less help from him than she needed a week ago and the levels of what she'd be willing to concede in exchange for his efforts have dropped accordingly.

It's like if you're stranded in the ocean with a hole in the bottom of your boat and someone comes along with some wood and caulking. You'll give him whatever he asks for to get it to keep from drowning. If, however, he comes along after you've fixed your own boat and offers you food and water to keep from starving, you still really need his help but you're not in the same extraordinarily dire situation you were in before, so he won't get as much out of you.

 

[fromderinside]

Hey, hey, hey. Read today's papers. She had the high ground on national defense until Admin diplomats got a memo leaked suggesting Obama was weak on defense ... again.

He's not, but, that's not the perception with the old hero, prisoner of war, all around honest guy, picker of Sarah Palin, John "I'm in shit's way this year", fucking McCain, the senile former friend of the lilly from south Carolinie, whining in Obama was 'directly Responsible' for ISIS.

She's gonna need all the "Transfer to Canada" voters she can get this year.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes, because Hillary Clinton wants a psychotic right-wing controlled Congress and a Senate that is 51 to 49 for the Dems.

No, she'd far prefer a Dem congress and she'll give Sanders concessions in order to have his help getting that. However, she needs less help from him than she needed a week ago and the levels of what she'd be willing to concede in exchange for his efforts have dropped accordingly.

There is no evidence of that yet. It is June. Trump loses. That is set in stone... we hope. What isn't set in stone is right-wing and left-wing turnout.

It's like if you're stranded in the ocean with a hole in the bottom of your boat and someone comes along with some wood and caulking. You'll give him whatever he asks for to get it to keep from drowning. If, however, he comes along after you've fixed your own boat and offers you food and water to keep from starving, you still really need his help but you're not in the same extraordinarily dire situation you were in before, so he won't get as much out of you.

You can always pretend it is a pepperoni stick or something. But what does oral sex have to do with the Clinton / Sanders situation?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

And he will certainly endorse her.

Ya, he will eventually and his main role in the campaign will continue to be that of an outsider who can motivate voting by those who are underwhelmed by Clinton but like left wing policies. My point is that if he'd gone to Clinton a week ago and said "I will play this role for you in exchange for X, Y and Z", she'd have agreed to it no matter what X, Y and Z happened to be. In response to the obvious first question about that, the answer is yes - Bill Clinton could definitely sweet talk Ivanka Trump into sleeping with Bernie Sanders - the man is that charming.

Now, however, when Sanders makes demands in exchange for an endorsement, Clinton can just say that she'll get back to him next week sometime and then have a staffer call him back with a watered down offer like Trump's other daughter who's more cute than gorgeous.

Am I the only man who would rather Jane Sanders than Ivanka Trump?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

No, she'd far prefer a Dem congress and she'll give Sanders concessions in order to have his help getting that. However, she needs less help from him than she needed a week ago and the levels of what she'd be willing to concede in exchange for his efforts have dropped accordingly.

There is no evidence of that yet. It is June.

But her willingness to concede things is based on how much she feels she needs him. Things are going in her direction, so she needs him less than she did a week ago. While it's true that this may change in another couple of weeks and the FBI will start trying to bust down her door to arrest her over the email leaks and she'll have to call Sanders and get him to convince some naïve young college students to strap on suicide vests and blow up the crowd of cops so that she can get through them and not be late for her dinner party with wealthy donors, it is unlikely that Clinton is ever going to see such a desperate need for Sanders' support that she did last week.

I think that was his best chance to get stuff out of her and I doubt he'll be in a similarly strong position in the future, even though there will be periods of ups and downs along the way.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

There is no evidence of that yet. It is June.

But her willingness to concede things is based on how much she feels she needs him. Things are going in her direction, so she needs him less than she did a week ago. While it's true that this may change in another couple of weeks and the FBI will start trying to bust down her door to arrest her over the email leaks and she'll have to call Sanders and get him to convince some naïve young college students to strap on suicide vests and blow up the crowd of cops so that she can get through them and not be late for her dinner party with wealthy donors, it is unlikely that Clinton is ever going to see such a desperate need for Sanders' support that she did last week.

I think that was his best chance to get stuff out of her and I doubt he'll be in a similarly strong position in the future, even though there will be periods of ups and downs along the way.

To take House seats in gerrymandered districts will take substantial turnout. About 11 seats could possibly be in play in the Senate in a best case scenario. Would flip from 54 to 46 to 43 to 57, but that'll require strong turnout.

 

[Horatio Parker]

There is no evidence of that yet. It is June.

But her willingness to concede things is based on how much she feels she needs him. Things are going in her direction, so she needs him less than she did a week ago. While it's true that this may change in another couple of weeks and the FBI will start trying to bust down her door to arrest her over the email leaks and she'll have to call Sanders and get him to convince some naïve young college students to strap on suicide vests and blow up the crowd of cops so that she can get through them and not be late for her dinner party with wealthy donors, it is unlikely that Clinton is ever going to see such a desperate need for Sanders' support that she did last week.

I think that was his best chance to get stuff out of her and I doubt he'll be in a similarly strong position in the future, even though there will be periods of ups and downs along the way.

Yes.

I would add to that the pressure of leadership. IOW granting or seeking concessions when you have the superior negotiating position. HRC is supposed to be all touchy feely with Bernie, while she's cruising and Bernie who lost is keeping his distance? Not how it works, and they know that, and so do voters. You want HRC to get that way with Putin or Iran? I know it's kinda silly, but...

Anyway, that's why I say that Bernie would behave the same way if their positions were reversed.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Ya, he will eventually and his main role in the campaign will continue to be that of an outsider who can motivate voting by those who are underwhelmed by Clinton but like left wing policies. My point is that if he'd gone to Clinton a week ago and said "I will play this role for you in exchange for X, Y and Z", she'd have agreed to it no matter what X, Y and Z happened to be. In response to the obvious first question about that, the answer is yes - Bill Clinton could definitely sweet talk Ivanka Trump into sleeping with Bernie Sanders - the man is that charming.

Now, however, when Sanders makes demands in exchange for an endorsement, Clinton can just say that she'll get back to him next week sometime and then have a staffer call him back with a watered down offer like Trump's other daughter who's more cute than gorgeous.

Am I the only man who would rather Jane Sanders than Ivanka Trump?

Uhhhh, probably. ((((ashamed of myself))))))

 

[Ford]

There will yet come a time I believe, when Sanders will issue a call to his supporters to vote for Clinton...

I'm not entirely convinced of that. He might split the difference and simply tell his supporters to vote against Trump (while not explicitly telling them to vote for Clinton) but there's another factor that has not yet been discussed in this thread.

While Bernie has been laying kinda low since effectively losing the nomination, a far more powerful ally has stepped up to stand at Clinton's side. It has been a very long time since a sitting President has campaigned for his successor, and Barack Obama has begun to do just that. His approval rating among Democrats is very high, and for a lot of the young Bernie supporters he's still held in high regard.

If I were Clinton, I'd let Sanders take a victory lap at the convention, but her path to the White House officially has stopped being about getting past Bernie.

 

[untermensche]

Sanders has already said over and over he is not going to tell his supporters what to do.

He is not their dictator.

And that is just tough for Hillary fans.

Hillary is going to have to convince them herself. If she doesn't even try, and she hasn't, then she is to blame, not Bernie.

 

[Tristan Scott]

Sanders has already said over and over he is not going to tell his supporters what to do.

He is not their dictator.

And that is just tough for Hillary fans.

Hillary is going to have to convince them herself. If she doesn't even try, and she hasn't, then she is to blame, not Bernie.

They'll have to decide for themselves either way just like the rest of us. She probably won't pretend to be Santa Claus and tell them all the free stuff they will get if they elect her, but she might.

 

[untermensche]

Sanders has already said over and over he is not going to tell his supporters what to do.

He is not their dictator.

And that is just tough for Hillary fans.

Hillary is going to have to convince them herself. If she doesn't even try, and she hasn't, then she is to blame, not Bernie.

They'll have to decide for themselves either way just like the rest of us. She probably won't pretend to be Santa Claus and tell them all the free stuff they will get if they elect her, but she might.

Nor will she say that the US can do what other nations somehow are doing.

Like universal health insurance.

And since she won't support things like this SHE is to blame when people on the left dismiss her.

She can move to the left and win big, or continue in her corporate ways and possibly lose.

How she appeals to anyone though is beyond me.

 

[Tristan Scott]

They'll have to decide for themselves either way just like the rest of us. She probably won't pretend to be Santa Claus and tell them all the free stuff they will get if they elect her, but she might.

Nor will she say that the US can do what other nations somehow are doing.

Like universal health insurance.

And since she won't support things like this SHE is to blame when people on the left dismiss her.

She can move to the left and win big, or continue in her corporate ways and possibly lose.

How she appeals to anyone though is beyond me.

There is no doubt that if congress put a good UHC bill in front of her, she would sign it. Just like she would sign a tuition assistance bill or a minimum wage bill.

The story is always going to play out the same way. If you want change you must have congress. Change happens in congress. This fact must be repeated to Sanders supporters over and over until someday they may finally get it.