Bernie Will Have Trump Elected President

[untermensche]

Nor will she say that the US can do what other nations somehow are doing.

Like universal health insurance.

And since she won't support things like this SHE is to blame when people on the left dismiss her.

She can move to the left and win big, or continue in her corporate ways and possibly lose.

How she appeals to anyone though is beyond me.

There is no doubt that if congress put a good UHC bill in front of her, she would sign it. Just like she would sign a tuition assistance bill or a minimum wage bill.

The story is always going to play out the same way. If you want change you must have congress. Change happens in congress. This fact must be repeated to Sanders supporters over and over until someday they may finally get it.

How is she going to have a Bill if she claims this stuff is just pie in the sky fantasy?

The way she dismisses what other nations can easily do is why many people on the left have no respect for her.

 

[SLD]

Sanders has already said over and over he is not going to tell his supporters what to do.

He is not their dictator.

And that is just tough for Hillary fans.

Hillary is going to have to convince them herself. If she doesn't even try, and she hasn't, then she is to blame, not Bernie.

I'm sorry, but this is an absurd absolutist position. It is saying that if she isn't as ideologically pure as you like, Trump might as well be President. It's bullshit. Clinton was never far from Sanders on the actual issues anyways, and is light years apart from Trump. In the end on November 8th, you've got two choices: Trump or Clinton. You have to make that choice. Even staying home is making that choice, but it is for Trump. Your vote counts. If Clinton isn't liberal enough for you, tough. She should speak her mind, not tell you something you want to hear. Then you have to decide who is more like minded with you: Trump or Clinton. Regardless of whether you like her or not. Regardless of whether she is acceptable to you on one or two issues or not. There is a choice to make and that is all you've got: Trump for Clinton, and you either vote for Clinton, or you vote for Trump - even if you don't vote at all.

SLD

 

[fast]

She should speak her mind, not tell you something you want to hear.

That's smart advice?

 

[untermensche]

Sanders has already said over and over he is not going to tell his supporters what to do.

He is not their dictator.

And that is just tough for Hillary fans.

Hillary is going to have to convince them herself. If she doesn't even try, and she hasn't, then she is to blame, not Bernie.

I'm sorry, but this is an absurd absolutist position. It is saying that if she isn't as ideologically pure as you like, Trump might as well be President. It's bullshit. Clinton was never far from Sanders on the actual issues anyways, and is light years apart from Trump. In the end on November 8th, you've got two choices: Trump or Clinton. You have to make that choice. Even staying home is making that choice, but it is for Trump. Your vote counts. If Clinton isn't liberal enough for you, tough. She should speak her mind, not tell you something you want to hear. Then you have to decide who is more like minded with you: Trump or Clinton. Regardless of whether you like her or not. Regardless of whether she is acceptable to you on one or two issues or not. There is a choice to make and that is all you've got: Trump for Clinton, and you either vote for Clinton, or you vote for Trump - even if you don't vote at all.

SLD

She is a moderate Republican on economic, foreign policy and social issues. Nowhere near Sanders. She voted to allow GW to invade Iraq at will. You can't get more different from Bernie on that. She will not support universal health insurance or government supported tuition, two things many nations already have. You can't get more different from Bernie on this.

The only reason she could possibly win is because the left is not represented at all.

It is up to Hillary to win, and if she refuses to appeal to the left she has nobody but herself to blame if she loses.

 

[Tristan Scott]

There is no doubt that if congress put a good UHC bill in front of her, she would sign it. Just like she would sign a tuition assistance bill or a minimum wage bill.

The story is always going to play out the same way. If you want change you must have congress. Change happens in congress. This fact must be repeated to Sanders supporters over and over until someday they may finally get it.

How is she going to have a Bill if she claims this stuff is just pie in the sky fantasy?

The way she dismisses what other nations can easily do is why many people on the left have no respect for her.

It is a pie in the sky fantasy if you don't have congress, or in the case of his tuition proposal congress and the state governments as well. Again, if those issues are worked out she would sign such a bill into law.

 

[fromderinside]

I'm sorry, but this is an absurd absolutist position. It is saying that if she isn't as ideologically pure as you like, Trump might as well be President. It's bullshit. Clinton was never far from Sanders on the actual issues anyways, and is light years apart from Trump. In the end on November 8th, you've got two choices: Trump or Clinton. You have to make that choice. Even staying home is making that choice, but it is for Trump. Your vote counts. If Clinton isn't liberal enough for you, tough. She should speak her mind, not tell you something you want to hear. Then you have to decide who is more like minded with you: Trump or Clinton. Regardless of whether you like her or not. Regardless of whether she is acceptable to you on one or two issues or not. There is a choice to make and that is all you've got: Trump for Clinton, and you either vote for Clinton, or you vote for Trump - even if you don't vote at all.

SLD

She is a moderate Republican on economic, foreign policy and social issues. Nowhere near Sanders. She voted to allow GW to invade Iraq at will. You can't get more different from Bernie on that. She will not support universal health insurance or government supported tuition, two things many nations already have. You can't get more different from Bernie on this.

The only reason she could possibly win is because the left is not represented at all.

It is up to Hillary to win, and if she refuses to appeal to the left she has nobody but herself to blame if she loses.

Why the hell and Obama and Biden, both credentialed liberals, so enthusiastically supporting her then. huh, huh, huh.

What I see is untermensche practicing what he's learned during cherry picking season.

 

[untermensche]

She is a moderate Republican on economic, foreign policy and social issues. Nowhere near Sanders. She voted to allow GW to invade Iraq at will. You can't get more different from Bernie on that. She will not support universal health insurance or government supported tuition, two things many nations already have. You can't get more different from Bernie on this.

The only reason she could possibly win is because the left is not represented at all.

It is up to Hillary to win, and if she refuses to appeal to the left she has nobody but herself to blame if she loses.

Why the hell and Obama and Biden, both credentialed liberals, so enthusiastically supporting her then. huh, huh, huh.

What I see is untermensche practicing what he's learned during cherry picking season.

Obama is a moderate Republican too. He has no liberal credentials.

That's why there is no public option in Obamacare. It is mainly a Bill for insurance corporations and forcing people to buy corporate insurance.

The Republicans have drifted so far right they are in la la land.

So moderate Republicans like Obama and Hillary seem to the left but really they are slightly right on issue after issue.

 

[fromderinside]

Why the hell and Obama and Biden, both credentialed liberals, so enthusiastically supporting her then. huh, huh, huh.

What I see is untermensche practicing what he's learned during cherry picking season.

Obama is a moderate Republican too. He has no liberal credentials.

That's why there is no public option in Obamacare. It is mainly a Bill for insurance corporations and forcing people to buy corporate insurance.

The Republicans have drifted so far right they are in la la land.

So moderate Republicans like Obama and Hillary seem to the left but really they are slightly right on issue after issue.

Uh, there wold be no semblance of government healthcare at all if single payer were included as a part of it. If you are saying liberal is one who fantasizes about what should be and never gets anything done, just like Bernie, then you're entitled to your view.

I prefer to think that government can and should be involved in people's health care. I'm also aware of what is doable in a center-right political climate. Enacting requires compromise. Cobbled systems require constant tending.

Its also my experience, see mid term results, liberal 'activists' - young people full of momentary idealism - are fair weather socialists, excuse makers for not going on if they hit a speed bump, not there for the grunge work of making people's lives better.

 

[Tristan Scott]

Why the hell and Obama and Biden, both credentialed liberals, so enthusiastically supporting her then. huh, huh, huh.

What I see is untermensche practicing what he's learned during cherry picking season.

Obama is a moderate Republican too. He has no liberal credentials.

That's why there is no public option in Obamacare. It is mainly a Bill for insurance corporations and forcing people to buy corporate insurance.

The Republicans have drifted so far right they are in la la land.

So moderate Republicans like Obama and Hillary seem to the left but really they are slightly right on issue after issue.

This is pointless. People are more complicated, and less easily defined, at least most of us are. Sure you have knee-jerk reactionaries as well as knee-jerk radicals out on the fringes, but with most of us, where we stand is issue driven.

As far as the parties go, it's also not easily defined either. In macro-economics, for example, for the past 50 years democrats have been much more conservative than republicans, when you consider balanced budgets under Kennedy/Johnson and Clinton versus Nixon's radical attempts to curb inflation and Reagan's voodoo economics, not to mention Ws lowering taxes while fighting two wars.

No, I find most of us to be a mix, liberal on some issues, while more conservative on others.

 

[untermensche]

Obama is a moderate Republican too. He has no liberal credentials.

That's why there is no public option in Obamacare. It is mainly a Bill for insurance corporations and forcing people to buy corporate insurance.

The Republicans have drifted so far right they are in la la land.

So moderate Republicans like Obama and Hillary seem to the left but really they are slightly right on issue after issue.

Uh, there wold be no semblance of government healthcare at all if single payer were included as a part of it. If you are saying liberal is one who fantasizes about what should be and never gets anything done, just like Bernie, then you're entitled to your view.

I prefer to think that government can and should be involved in people's health care. I'm also aware of what is doable in a center-right political climate. Enacting requires compromise. Cobbled systems require constant tending.

Its also my experience, see mid term results, liberal 'activists' - young people full of momentary idealism - are fair weather socialists, excuse makers for not going on if they hit a speed bump, not there for the grunge work of making people's lives better.

The reason these things are fantasies is because Bill Clinton sold the party to corporate sponsors.

And Democrats have sold their souls ever since.

If No Democrats, except Bernie, fight for liberal causes of course they will never be achieved.

And supporting moderate Republicans like Hillary will make this bad situation bad forever.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So, the left needs to vote then. If they stay home in a huff because they didn't get everything they wanted, they'll continue to not get anything because they made the choice to not participate in a participatory democracy. The parties who whore themselves out to corporate interests would be more than happy to whore themselves out to left wing interests if those interests display an interest in being their johns.

 

[RavenSky]

There is no doubt that if congress put a good UHC bill in front of her, she would sign it. Just like she would sign a tuition assistance bill or a minimum wage bill.

The story is always going to play out the same way. If you want change you must have congress. Change happens in congress. This fact must be repeated to Sanders supporters over and over until someday they may finally get it.

Yep.

I will give Bernie credit, though. He's telling his supporters to get off their asses and run for office

 

[SLD]

I'm sorry, but this is an absurd absolutist position. It is saying that if she isn't as ideologically pure as you like, Trump might as well be President. It's bullshit. Clinton was never far from Sanders on the actual issues anyways, and is light years apart from Trump. In the end on November 8th, you've got two choices: Trump or Clinton. You have to make that choice. Even staying home is making that choice, but it is for Trump. Your vote counts. If Clinton isn't liberal enough for you, tough. She should speak her mind, not tell you something you want to hear. Then you have to decide who is more like minded with you: Trump or Clinton. Regardless of whether you like her or not. Regardless of whether she is acceptable to you on one or two issues or not. There is a choice to make and that is all you've got: Trump for Clinton, and you either vote for Clinton, or you vote for Trump - even if you don't vote at all.

SLD

She is a moderate Republican on economic, foreign policy and social issues. Nowhere near Sanders. She voted to allow GW to invade Iraq at will. You can't get more different from Bernie on that. She will not support universal health insurance or government supported tuition, two things many nations already have. You can't get more different from Bernie on this.

The only reason she could possibly win is because the left is not represented at all.

It is up to Hillary to win, and if she refuses to appeal to the left she has nobody but herself to blame if she loses.

So what if she is a moderate Republican? (Which is not true). Even if she is, you still have to choose: Clinton or Trump? Which ones is better? You don't get to pick the President. You only get to vote. No matter how bad she is, she is 64352x better than Trump.

SLD