Lumpenproletariat
Veteran Member
- Joined
- May 9, 2014
- Messages
- 2,564
- Basic Beliefs
- ---- "Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts."
3 Debunkers UP -- 3 Debunkers DOWN. No runs, no hits, no errors.
Zip! Nada! Goose-eggs. 000
You're proving my point, giving
no examples from the ancient world, and
no information about this modern example, showing any evidence or reports about his miracle acts.
There are no examples from ancient literature, 1000+ years ago, which is what I was referring to.
My wording, "none had miracle myths attached to them . . ." and "different factions wanted to attach . . ." and "so many wanted . . ." are past tense, meaning a time reference is contained there, and that time was 2000 years ago. You can enlarge that several centuries and stay within the context, but to be saying anything legitimate you must address a time period when there was not a massive publishing industry such as we've had for the last 200 or 300 or 400 years. Obviously there are a few more published stories in recent times than there were 1000 or 2000 years ago. If you cannot figure that out and take it into account, you show that you're not seriously addressing the topic.
If you want to get serious and stop supporting my point (while pretending to refute it), then you'll offer an example from the ANCIENT literature and culture, rather than having to use only modern examples. That you can only offer a modern example proves my point that there are no other examples from the ancient historical period.
So I welcome your confirmation of my point, or verification, by showing your inability to offer any parallel example from the time in question, such as before modern publishing.
Also, you're not being serious if you can't do your homework and provide any information with your example:
You must identify WHEN the HISTORICAL Paul Bunyan lived, at least approximately, and then also identify the date of our earliest sources about him, in the literature (not oral), claiming that he performed whatever miracles he did. And you need more than only one source dating near to the time when he lived (less than 50 (100) years), such as we have 4 (5) sources for the Jesus miracle acts 20-80 years from when the events happened.
And of course you must identify what miracles he did, quoting the source claiming he really did those things and claiming there were witnesses present who saw it.
Also, you must show that there are no other sources of the time claiming that it's only fiction, or at least that the sources saying he really lived and performed those miracles are more numerous than the sources saying it's only fiction. If the sources saying it's fiction are more numerous, then the evidence for the miracle claims is not serious evidence. There are no early sources saying that the Jesus miracle acts are fictional, fraudulent, etc. (probably nothing before 200 AD, definitely nothing before 100 AD).
Further verification that there are no other examples. If there were, a debunker could offer one from the ancient historical period, or from earlier than modern publishing.
Another fucking moron confirmation, from another would-be debunker unable to give an example from the period of history referred to. This is further confirmation that there are no examples.
So the score now is 3-0. Three confirmationes that Jesus in about 30 AD is the only reputed miracle-worker from ancient times for whom there is any evidence, and zero refutationes.
modern times vs. ancient
This isn't to say that modern examples are excluded from consideration. But if you insist on introducing them and making the issue much more complicated, then the rules of logic have to be applied in such a way as to take account of the differences between the vastly different historical periods.
One adjustment is to take into account the number of sources which say the stories are fiction, and compare the percent of these to those claiming the stories are factual reports of what happened, as the Gospel accounts present the Jesus events as factual.
And there are other adjustments, to take account of the vastly greater volume of published matter in modern times.
If you're unable to find any ancient examples, then you have to explain why. I.e., why this one case only stands apart among all the ancient literature as one for which we have evidence, or multiple written accounts from the time of the reported miracle-worker events, such as we have written accounts from the time for other historical events.
Zip! Nada! Goose-eggs. 000
There were plenty of religious preachers, and yet none had miracle myths attached to them within only 1 or 2 generations. What is it about this one that so many different factions wanted to attach their teachings and mythical stories to him?
There are plenty of lumber jacks, and yet only Paul Bunyan had stories of miraculous deeds made about him. What is it about this one that so many wanted to attach their stories to?
You're proving my point, giving
no examples from the ancient world, and
no information about this modern example, showing any evidence or reports about his miracle acts.
There are no examples from ancient literature, 1000+ years ago, which is what I was referring to.
My wording, "none had miracle myths attached to them . . ." and "different factions wanted to attach . . ." and "so many wanted . . ." are past tense, meaning a time reference is contained there, and that time was 2000 years ago. You can enlarge that several centuries and stay within the context, but to be saying anything legitimate you must address a time period when there was not a massive publishing industry such as we've had for the last 200 or 300 or 400 years. Obviously there are a few more published stories in recent times than there were 1000 or 2000 years ago. If you cannot figure that out and take it into account, you show that you're not seriously addressing the topic.
If you want to get serious and stop supporting my point (while pretending to refute it), then you'll offer an example from the ANCIENT literature and culture, rather than having to use only modern examples. That you can only offer a modern example proves my point that there are no other examples from the ancient historical period.
So I welcome your confirmation of my point, or verification, by showing your inability to offer any parallel example from the time in question, such as before modern publishing.
Also, you're not being serious if you can't do your homework and provide any information with your example:
You must identify WHEN the HISTORICAL Paul Bunyan lived, at least approximately, and then also identify the date of our earliest sources about him, in the literature (not oral), claiming that he performed whatever miracles he did. And you need more than only one source dating near to the time when he lived (less than 50 (100) years), such as we have 4 (5) sources for the Jesus miracle acts 20-80 years from when the events happened.
And of course you must identify what miracles he did, quoting the source claiming he really did those things and claiming there were witnesses present who saw it.
Also, you must show that there are no other sources of the time claiming that it's only fiction, or at least that the sources saying he really lived and performed those miracles are more numerous than the sources saying it's only fiction. If the sources saying it's fiction are more numerous, then the evidence for the miracle claims is not serious evidence. There are no early sources saying that the Jesus miracle acts are fictional, fraudulent, etc. (probably nothing before 200 AD, definitely nothing before 100 AD).
Paul Bunyan is not Jesus so obviously Paul Bunyan's feats are merely products of folklore and legend.
/special pleading
Further verification that there are no other examples. If there were, a debunker could offer one from the ancient historical period, or from earlier than modern publishing.
This shit again. It takes ZERO time to write fiction. I am the Lord PHenaolCQE#@@, the one true God above ALL OTHER GODS.
There. I just did it, you fucking moron. "You" in the general "fucking moron" sense.
Another fucking moron confirmation, from another would-be debunker unable to give an example from the period of history referred to. This is further confirmation that there are no examples.
So the score now is 3-0. Three confirmationes that Jesus in about 30 AD is the only reputed miracle-worker from ancient times for whom there is any evidence, and zero refutationes.
modern times vs. ancient
This isn't to say that modern examples are excluded from consideration. But if you insist on introducing them and making the issue much more complicated, then the rules of logic have to be applied in such a way as to take account of the differences between the vastly different historical periods.
One adjustment is to take into account the number of sources which say the stories are fiction, and compare the percent of these to those claiming the stories are factual reports of what happened, as the Gospel accounts present the Jesus events as factual.
And there are other adjustments, to take account of the vastly greater volume of published matter in modern times.
If you're unable to find any ancient examples, then you have to explain why. I.e., why this one case only stands apart among all the ancient literature as one for which we have evidence, or multiple written accounts from the time of the reported miracle-worker events, such as we have written accounts from the time for other historical events.