Biden expels Russian diplomats and imposes sanctions

[Copernicus]

That's nice. Should we expect apologies from MSM?

I can't recall any article in the MSM that claimed there was definitive evidence of bounties. It was always clear that reports of bounties were based on rumors and leaks from the intelligence community during the Trump administration. Biden said he would raise the issue with Putin, which he did. But he has also made a point of saying that the intelligence reports were not based on strong evidence. Now the MSM is also updating its reporting on the the claims. Russia, of course, denies the charges, but the credibility of the Russian government has been ruined by past behavior that it continues to gaslight about even today--e.g. Putin's assassination campaigns, election meddling in the US and elsewhere, the invasion of Ukraine, etc.

 

[barbos]

That's nice. Should we expect apologies from MSM?

I can't recall any article in the MSM that claimed there was definitive evidence of bounties.

Really? They were foaming as if it was a scientific fact.

but the credibility of the Russian government has been ruined by past behavior that it continues to gaslight about even today--e.g. Putin's assassination campaigns, election meddling in the US and elsewhere, the invasion of Ukraine, etc.

I will give "assassination campaign". The rest is on MSM.

 

[barbos]

That's nice. Should we expect apologies from MSM?

No. The conclusion that Russia perpetrated that attack was reasonable given the evidence available, even if it wasn't conclusive.

Relly? Fucking raghead lied to get off the afghan prison and, that's your evidence. You have been in Afhganistran for 20 years and have not learned a single thing.

Russia has been a 100% malevolent. destructive influence on American society and American interests since the end of WWII, that, combined with the fact of their known capabilities, is sufficient to point the finger squarely at them.

So did US.

 

[Gun Nut]

Attack the messenger, not the substance

OK.

Anatol Lieven is a professor in Georgetown University’s School of Foreign Service in Qatar. He is also a visiting professor in the War Studies Department of King’s College London, a senior fellow of the New America Foundation in Washington DC, and a member of the Valdai discussion club in Russia.

The story is that a Russian asset that resides in Russia wrote something pro-Russia. Film at 11.

 

[Copernicus]

but the credibility of the Russian government has been ruined by past behavior that it continues to gaslight about even today--e.g. Putin's assassination campaigns, election meddling in the US and elsewhere, the invasion of Ukraine, etc.

I will give "assassination campaign". The rest is on MSM.

Yes, those stories and the assassination campaign have all been "on MSM". That's actually what the MSM does--report the news. And it took a long time for you to come around to the position that you could "give" on the assassination campaign. After they published the pictures of the two Russian "tourists" who carried out the attack on the Skripals, you saw it was hopeless to deny the obvious. But you are still gaslighting on the other stories.

 

[barbos]

Attack the messenger, not the substance

OK.

Anatol Lieven is a professor in Georgetown University’s School of Foreign Service in Qatar. He is also a visiting professor in the War Studies Department of King’s College London, a senior fellow of the New America Foundation in Washington DC, and a member of the Valdai discussion club in Russia.

The story is that a Russian asset that resides in Russia wrote something pro-Russia. Film at 11.

He is a british guy living/working in US I understand.

 

[barbos]

but the credibility of the Russian government has been ruined by past behavior that it continues to gaslight about even today--e.g. Putin's assassination campaigns, election meddling in the US and elsewhere, the invasion of Ukraine, etc.

I will give "assassination campaign". The rest is on MSM.

Yes, those stories and the assassination campaign have all been "on MSM". That's actually what the MSM does--report the news. And it took a long time for you to come around to the position that you could "give" on the assassination campaign. After they published the pictures of the two Russian "tourists" who carried out the attack on the Skripals, you saw it was hopeless to deny the obvious. But you are still gaslighting on the other stories.

No, I am reporting that US intelligence finally admitted that their bounty data is of "low to medium" confidence. Not even "high confidence" and "high confidence" is not really that high actually if you look at their definition.
Again, MSM has a habit of forgetting about stories where they were wrong. This is because there is nobody who can hold them accountable when it comes to Russia.

 

[Copernicus]

Yes, those stories and the assassination campaign have all been "on MSM". That's actually what the MSM does--report the news. And it took a long time for you to come around to the position that you could "give" on the assassination campaign. After they published the pictures of the two Russian "tourists" who carried out the attack on the Skripals, you saw it was hopeless to deny the obvious. But you are still gaslighting on the other stories.

No, I am reporting that US intelligence finally admitted that their bounty data is of "low to medium" confidence. Not even "high confidence" and "high confidence" is not really that high actually if you look at their definition.
Again, MSM has a habit of forgetting about stories where they were wrong. This is because there is nobody who can hold them accountable when it comes to Russia.

The US President set the record straight. Most news organizations merely did what they always do--report the facts as they know them. If you are so concerned about the MSM, then show some concern for who holds the Russian MSM accountable. As far as anyone can tell, it is Vladimir Putin, and he only holds them accountable for reporting what he does not want them to report. That is the MSM that you appear to put your faith and confidence in. Journalists in Russia have lost their lives for failing to understand that, and one of them now apparently lies dying in a Russian prison for daring to defy him.

 

[barbos]

Yes, those stories and the assassination campaign have all been "on MSM". That's actually what the MSM does--report the news. And it took a long time for you to come around to the position that you could "give" on the assassination campaign. After they published the pictures of the two Russian "tourists" who carried out the attack on the Skripals, you saw it was hopeless to deny the obvious. But you are still gaslighting on the other stories.

No, I am reporting that US intelligence finally admitted that their bounty data is of "low to medium" confidence. Not even "high confidence" and "high confidence" is not really that high actually if you look at their definition.
Again, MSM has a habit of forgetting about stories where they were wrong. This is because there is nobody who can hold them accountable when it comes to Russia.

The US President set the record straight.

Did he? I mean did he set ALL records straight?

Most news organizations merely did what they always do--report the facts as they know them.

Did they? All I hear is crickets.

If you are so concerned about the MSM, then show some concern for who holds the Russian MSM accountable.

There is no MSM in Russia, they all under government control one way or another. What's your excuse?

 

[Copernicus]

...
There is no MSM in Russia, they all under government control one way or another. What's your excuse?

My excuse is that I live in a part of the world where the MSM is not under government control. If you choose not to label the mainstream news outlets in Russia "MSM" because they are under government control (primarily through self-censorship, as is the case in other authoritarian regimes), that is your choice. It still strongly influences your beliefs and your politics, especially concerning topics like Ukraine and Russian interference in US elections. I have far more confidence in our MSM, with all its flaws, than in Russian news sources.

 

[barbos]

...
There is no MSM in Russia, they all under government control one way or another. What's your excuse?

My excuse is that I live in a part of the world where the MSM is not under government control. If you choose not to label the mainstream news outlets in Russia "MSM" because they are under government control (primarily through self-censorship, as is the case in other authoritarian regimes), that is your choice. It still strongly influences your beliefs and your politics, especially concerning topics like Ukraine and Russian interference in US elections. I have far more confidence in our MSM, with all its flaws, than in Russian news sources.

So why are your MSM lying to you about Ukraine and Russia?

 

[ZiprHead]

...
There is no MSM in Russia, they all under government control one way or another. What's your excuse?

My excuse is that I live in a part of the world where the MSM is not under government control. If you choose not to label the mainstream news outlets in Russia "MSM" because they are under government control (primarily through self-censorship, as is the case in other authoritarian regimes), that is your choice. It still strongly influences your beliefs and your politics, especially concerning topics like Ukraine and Russian interference in US elections. I have far more confidence in our MSM, with all its flaws, than in Russian news sources.

So why are your MSM lying to you about Ukraine and Russia?

What sources are you using to determine they are lying?

 

[barbos]

So why are your MSM lying to you about Ukraine and Russia?

What sources are you using to determine they are lying?

non MSM, obviously.
To be fair, most MSM lies are lies of omission.

 

[ZiprHead]

So why are your MSM lying to you about Ukraine and Russia?

What sources are you using to determine they are lying?

non MSM, obviously.
To be fair, most MSM lies are lies of omission.

Examples of your sources?

Your evasion is telling.

 

[barbos]

non MSM, obviously.
To be fair, most MSM lies are lies of omission.

Examples of your sources?

Your evasion is telling.

I gave a number of links over the years, they were usually ignored. I gave one here in this thread.
As I said, these are lies of omissions. Nobody disputes the info, it's just ignored/not reported by MSM in US.

 

[Elixir]

non MSM, obviously.
To be fair, most MSM lies are lies of omission.

Examples of your sources?

Your evasion is telling.

I gave a number of links over the years

Then it shouldn't be a problem to provide a prime example or few.
Also - some reason to believe Russian government-controlled media aren't lying to you.

 

[Copernicus]

...
There is no MSM in Russia, they all under government control one way or another. What's your excuse?

My excuse is that I live in a part of the world where the MSM is not under government control. If you choose not to label the mainstream news outlets in Russia "MSM" because they are under government control (primarily through self-censorship, as is the case in other authoritarian regimes), that is your choice. It still strongly influences your beliefs and your politics, especially concerning topics like Ukraine and Russian interference in US elections. I have far more confidence in our MSM, with all its flaws, than in Russian news sources.

So why are your MSM lying to you about Ukraine and Russia?

Generally speaking, they don't intentionally lie. "MSM" is just a label that refers to a diverse collection of independent news outlets. They report on many things about Ukraine and Russia, and they inevitably get some facts wrong. Most things that they say about those two countries are reliable, especially regarding Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. Generally speaking, they try to report the truth as they see it, and they don't function as a propaganda outlet for their governments. Unlike the Russian MSM, they are free to report the truth without fear of being shut down by a tin pot dictator or having their reporters assassinated by government thugs.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

So why are your MSM lying to you about Ukraine and Russia?

Generally speaking, they don't intentionally lie. "MSM" is just a label that refers to a diverse collection of independent news outlets. They report on many things about Ukraine and Russia, and they inevitably get some facts wrong. Most things that they say about those two countries are reliable, especially regarding Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. Generally speaking, they try to report the truth as they see it, and they don't function as a propaganda outlet for their governments. Unlike the Russian MSM, they are free to report the truth without fear of being shut down by a tin pot dictator or having their reporters assassinated by government thugs.

I'm glad someone finally revealed what MSM is referring to. There is no MSM in Russia equivalent to the free press we have in the US. Russia has SCP, State Controlled Propaganda, same as China and North Korea and other police states.

 

[Copernicus]

I would say that most of the mainstream outlets in Russia are fairly careful to slant their stories so as to favor government policies, but it is still possible to find opposition points of view. It isn't yet as bad as it was in Soviet times, when everything was quite literally the Party line. I subscribed to both Pravda and Izvestiya when I was in high school, so I got all of the latest news about farm and factory production successes. Most of the real news was found in the back pages, and you had to read between the lines. (I still have a box of those old newspapers from back in the early 1960s).

The label "MSM" or  Mainstream media in the US is used as a pejorative label primarily by the rightwing media. The MSM is normally used to contrast it with  alternative media.

 

[barbos]

So why are your MSM lying to you about Ukraine and Russia?

Generally speaking, they don't intentionally lie. "MSM" is just a label that refers to a diverse collection of independent news outlets. They report on many things about Ukraine and Russia, and they inevitably get some facts wrong. Most things that they say about those two countries are reliable, especially regarding Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. Generally speaking, they try to report the truth as they see it, and they don't function as a propaganda outlet for their governments. Unlike the Russian MSM, they are free to report the truth without fear of being shut down by a tin pot dictator or having their reporters assassinated by government thugs.

I'm glad someone finally revealed what MSM is referring to. There is no MSM in Russia equivalent to the free press we have in the US. Russia has SCP, State Controlled Propaganda, same as China and North Korea and other police states.

Comparing Russia to NK or even China is ridiculous. There are different degrees of freedom of the press. But that's not the question here. Question here is what's your excuse for MSM being so atrocious when it comes to Russia?