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BLM end goal? In Fear of Public Scrutiny, Chicago Officer Didn’t Use Gun While She Was Beaten

Derec, your absence in the Trump hot mic thread has been questioned. Just giving you a heads up.

I thought calling out posters like this was against TOU. It's also off topic in this thread. In any case, since Trump will most certainly lose, I am bored about all the threads about him. What is he supposed to have done this time?

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You should get teh Donald to grab them by the pussy, Derec. THAT would teach 'em not to be so uppity!
I think Cullors is a lesbian, so I am sure she'd much rather Hillary do the grabbing. ;)
 
Given her injuries, shooting was the appropriate course of action. She's lucky she survived. But she's just a cop, her life doesn't matter, does it?
Of course it matters. And she is alive. On the other hand, so is attacker. But from your rant, it is clear his life doesn't matter.
 
Considering the scum we're dealing with, we're better off if the cops shoot first and ask questions later.

Given her injuries, shooting was the appropriate course of action. She's lucky she survived. But she's just a cop, her life doesn't matter, does it?

Of course it matters. And she is alive. On the other hand, so is attacker.

Too bad. One more scumbag taxpayers have to take care of. The cop should be reprimanded for NOT shooting the bastard.


But from your rant, it is clear his life doesn't matter.

Considering the warehousing cost, he's obviously a net loss to society. The money we'll have to waste on him could have gone to schools or hospitals or other legitimate needs.

Why is the life of this subhuman more important than the welfare of society? of us all?

And how many more cops will get beat up and killed in the future because we've devalued their lives and overvalued the lives of the scum they're supposed to protect us from?
 
Too bad. One more scumbag taxpayers have to take care of. The cop should be reprimanded for NOT shooting the bastard.

Another ruined life created by the sickness of US society.

And of course a society is responsible for the lives it ruins.
 
Considering the scum we're dealing with, we're better off if the cops shoot first and ask questions later.

No wonder you espouse the views you do. You're inhumane.
 
Of course it matters. And she is alive. On the other hand, so is attacker.

Too bad. One more scumbag taxpayers have to take care of. The cop should be reprimanded for NOT shooting the bastard.


But from your rant, it is clear his life doesn't matter.

Considering the warehousing cost, he's obviously a net loss to society. The money we'll have to waste on him could have gone to schools or hospitals or other legitimate needs.

Why is the life of this subhuman more important than the welfare of society? of us all?

And how many more cops will get beat up and killed in the future because we've devalued their lives and overvalued the lives of the scum they're supposed to protect us from?
I don't know. Maybe Tamir Rice or Philandro Castile can answer your question. Why don't you get a medium and report back what their estimates are?
 
It sounds to me like a just-so, post-hoc story to attack BLM to me. It just doesn't make sense. At the very least the story is incomplete.

Female police officer approaches a victim of a traffic accident. Does she detect danger in the situation and proceed anyway? Did she approach the dangerous situation with a weapon ready or was she unarmed? Or did the situation seem harmless and she was taken by surprise? Why did the attacker have free reign to beat this officer for 2 minutes? Was she unconscious the whole 2 minutes or was she debating with herself for 2 minutes about whether to use her firearm while this guy was pummeling her? If the attacker was ultimately suppressed with a taser and pepper-spray from a different officer, why are these officers arguing now that firearms should have been used?

It makes no sense without more details. And given the propensity for police to lie, I can't trust their account without something to corroborate their story.

You do make some good points. I too would like a more comprehensive detail of the events that took place. However, is it really surprising that some officers might be second guessing themselves in situations where things can take a turn for the worst in an instant, and such second guessing would lead themselves to harm in a certain number of situations?
No. That is actually a good thing. This should be on their minds 100% of the time, that they might be injured. We need to move far, far away from shooting as the first option.
 
Of course it matters. And she is alive. On the other hand, so is attacker.

Too bad. One more scumbag taxpayers have to take care of. The cop should be reprimanded for NOT shooting the bastard.


But from your rant, it is clear his life doesn't matter.

Considering the warehousing cost, he's obviously a net loss to society. The money we'll have to waste on him could have gone to schools or hospitals or other legitimate needs.

Why is the life of this subhuman more important than the welfare of society? of us all?

And how many more cops will get beat up and killed in the future because we've devalued their lives and overvalued the lives of the scum they're supposed to protect us from?
That's some good trolling. BTW lots of people thought about Jews and other peoples the same way some couple generations ago.

I have a member of the extended family with similar views I see expressed in this post. I always encourage him to keep talking.
 
What is it about the idea that black lives matter that is so confusing for some people?

Are they unable to grasp the concept? Are they simply unwilling to modify the category 'Things That Matter' to include the lives of black people? Do they like it when cops act like the lives of certain people don't matter? Or do they presume their lives matter to the cops, therefore whatever happens to other citizens won't happen to them?

WRT the cop in the OP story: if she wasn't convinced the guy posed an immediate threat to her or others before he attacked, she should not have shot him. If she was convinced he presented an immediate threat to her or others before he attacked and/or once he did attack, she should have used a taser, a nightstick, or her sidearm to stop him.

It sucks that he attacked her. It sucks that she was seriously injured and could have been killed. But it sucks more when cops shoot people needlessly because the cops aren't supposed to pose a lethal threat to civilians; they're here to protect and serve us, not kill us if we step out of line.

Not ever case will present itself as a clear cut choice between 100% right and 100% wrong. Sometimes cops will have to guess, and no one wants them to guess wrong. But ffs, no one sensible wants to give the cops free rein to fire at will.

If #BLM has no other effect than to reduce needless killings of civilians by cops, then it's a worthwhile cause.

She knew he posed a threat but knew shooting him would make her life hell, so she was willing to risk death to prevent that.

Once your head is being slammed against the pavement very hard like that, it is pretty much too late at that point, you are dazed and confused. The time to act is before something like that happens.
The whole controversy is whether a lot of the killings that have happened are "needless" or whether they were to stop a legitimate threat.

We have three categories of cases:

-There was no threat and the cop shot the person anyway because they had it out for a black guy (extremely rare)
-The threat was minor and the cop made a bad decision in the heat of the moment because they perceived a threat, much like a surgeon has a slip of the knife and harms someone by mistake (not surprising that it would happen every now and again given 318 million people and about 1 million employed law enforcement)
-There is a legitimate threat and the cop acted in self defense (most common scenario)

Notice how the BLM movement rarely, if ever, distinguishes these types of cases. They rush to judge and condemn the cop before the facts are known. The end result is that more cops will be afraid to defend themselves and thus less shootings, but more dead and injured cops, and more bold attacks by criminals knowing more cops will be fearful to shoot. Yes, you will also reduce the mistakes that happen, but you will also discourage legitimate self defense putting far more cops in danger.

Where is the right balance? And who the hell would ever want to be a cop were perfection is demanded in dangerous situations, asking for something that isn't humanely possible in every single scenario.

Oh really? That's not what Zimmerman claimed.
 
"And because of the scrutiny going on nationwide, there (are) officers second-guessing themselves," he said. "That’s what we don’t want."

We actually do want police officers to think twice about shooting people. And it's because all lives matter.
 
You do realize that there is a difference between that and the movement called "Black Lives Matter". Notice the capitalization. #BLM as a movement cares only about black people shot by police, and pretends that even justifiable shootings are "racist murders". Recall the rioting after Sylville Smith, an armed thug, was shot and killed.

I remember linking to story after story of horrific abuse committed by Milwaukee police officers including, but not limited to, beating and torturing a suspect, raping a woman who called 911 for help, sexual assaults and battery, illegal roadside strip searches and gang-sodomy, planting evidence, shooting family pets, and terrorizing communities. I remember showing you multiple cases in just the past 10 years in which the local DAs Office proved to be unable/unwilling to prosecute crimes committed by cops. I remember studies showing that the average Milwaukee citizen's willingness to cooperate with the police was fairly high among citizens who never had contact with the cops but dropped substantially after interacting with them, and that this was true for members of every race and gender. I remember showing you case after case where the police in Milwaukee proved themselves to be violent, abusive, out-of-control thugs. And yet here you are again, pretending the riots in Milwaukee happened because everybody liked Smith so much.

Did none of the evidence of on-going police misconduct in Milwaukee make it past the filters? Don't you remember the serial rapist cop who was sodomizing men on the side of the road? Or the ones who snapped a guy's fingers and ruptured his eardrums by shoving pens into his ear canals? Surely you remember the report of the Milwaukee cops shooting more dogs per year than the cops in New York, despite Milwaukee being much smaller and having far fewer dogs? I mean, c'mon. Even if you don't care about cops beating and raping citizens, surely you understand that shooting dogs leads to hard feelings.

Are they unable to grasp the concept? Are they simply unwilling to modify the category 'Things That Matter' to include the lives of black people?
You are assuming that that's not already the case.

Do they like it when cops act like the lives of certain people don't matter?
Do they? Police shoot white people too, including under questionable circumstances. The difference being, media does not make a huge deal out of it and there are no protests/riots/looting when police shoot somebody white.

Yes, police shoot white people too. And there should be an outcry when an unarmed white person who poses no apparent threat is shot. There should be an outcry when any unarmed person posing no apparent threat is shot.

If you think white victim are overlooked then ffs name them. Point them out to us. And if you believe what happened to them was wrong, advocate on their behalf. Don't just complain that black victims are the only ones getting any press and try to silence the protesters.

It sucks that he attacked her. It sucks that she was seriously injured and could have been killed. But it sucks more when cops shoot people needlessly because the cops aren't supposed to pose a lethal threat to civilians; they're here to protect and serve us, not kill us if we step out of line.
The point is, had she shot him it would not have been "needless", but she hesitated because of #BLM and that could easily have cost her her life.

Cops are only allowed to use lethal force when facing an apparent potentially lethal threat to themselves or others. No apparent threat = no just cause for shooting. If she shot him before he presented a threat then she would have been guilty of aggravated assault or perhaps murder. If she shot him after he presented a minor, easily avoided threat, she still would have been guilty of aggravated assault or murder.

In the OP article the cop is essentially saying 'If only I knew what he was about to do, I could have protected myself by shooting him'. But she didn't know, therefore she couldn't have shot him without it being a crime. She correctly surmised that shooting the guy without just cause would generate an outcry. She could not simply shoot him pre-emptively and get away with it.

It sucks that she was hurt, but her decision to withhold her fire was the correct one.

The people who say "all lives matter" in response definitely miss the point.
What's wrong with that?

As a moral stance, nothing. But the refrain "all lives matter" is being used as a way to drown out, deflect, and ignore the issues that have inspired the Black Lives Matter movement. It's a dodge.
 
What is it about the idea that black lives matter that is so confusing for some people?

Are they unable to grasp the concept? Are they simply unwilling to modify the category 'Things That Matter' to include the lives of black people? Do they like it when cops act like the lives of certain people don't matter? Or do they presume their lives matter to the cops, therefore whatever happens to other citizens won't happen to them?

WRT the cop in the OP story: if she wasn't convinced the guy posed an immediate threat to her or others before he attacked, she should not have shot him. If she was convinced he presented an immediate threat to her or others before he attacked and/or once he did attack, she should have used a taser, a nightstick, or her sidearm to stop him.

It sucks that he attacked her. It sucks that she was seriously injured and could have been killed. But it sucks more when cops shoot people needlessly because the cops aren't supposed to pose a lethal threat to civilians; they're here to protect and serve us, not kill us if we step out of line.

Not every case will present itself as a clear cut choice between 100% right and 100% wrong. Sometimes cops will have to guess, and no one wants them to guess wrong. But ffs, no one sensible wants to give the cops free rein to fire at will.

If #BLM has no other effect than to reduce needless killings of civilians by cops, then it's a worthwhile cause.

Given her injuries, shooting was the appropriate course of action. She's lucky she survived. But she's just a cop, her life doesn't matter, does it?

If that's all you got out of my post, you didn't read it with comprehension.

Not every case will present itself as a clear cut choice between 100% right and 100% wrong. Sometimes cops will have to guess, and no one wants them to guess wrong. But ffs, no one sensible wants to give the cops free rein to fire at will.

Cops aren't allowed to pre-emptively shoot people. They must wait until there is an apparent threat to their lives or the lives of others before they open fire, and that's a good thing.

Sometimes the cops will be taken by surprise. Sometimes someone will get hurt. And sometimes a cop might be killed. But allowing cops to shoot citizens when there is no apparent threat is not acceptable to anyone who isn't a fan of police states.
 
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Given her injuries, shooting was the appropriate course of action. She's lucky she survived. But she's just a cop, her life doesn't matter, does it?

If that's all you got out of my post, you didn't read it with comprehension.

Not every case will present itself as a clear cut choice between 100% right and 100% wrong. Sometimes cops will have to guess, and no one wants them to guess wrong. But ffs, no one sensible wants to give the cops free rein to fire at will.

Cops aren't allowed to pre-emptively shoot people. They must wait until there is an apparent threat to their lives or the lives of others before they open fire, and that's a good thing.

Sometimes the cops will be taken by surprise. Sometimes someone will get hurt. And sometimes a cop might be killed. But allowing cops to shoot citizens when there is no apparent threat is not acceptable to anyone who isn't a fan of police states.

The point is you seem to consider the outcome we got as superior to the cop shooting.

The law agrees with you--in Iran. Not in any civilized country.
 
If that's all you got out of my post, you didn't read it with comprehension.

Not every case will present itself as a clear cut choice between 100% right and 100% wrong. Sometimes cops will have to guess, and no one wants them to guess wrong. But ffs, no one sensible wants to give the cops free rein to fire at will.

Cops aren't allowed to pre-emptively shoot people. They must wait until there is an apparent threat to their lives or the lives of others before they open fire, and that's a good thing.

Sometimes the cops will be taken by surprise. Sometimes someone will get hurt. And sometimes a cop might be killed. But allowing cops to shoot citizens when there is no apparent threat is not acceptable to anyone who isn't a fan of police states.

The point is you seem to consider the outcome we got as superior to the cop shooting.

The law agrees with you--in Iran. Not in any civilized country.

Uh, no. Fascist police states support the police, not the civilians. Duh!
 
If that's all you got out of my post, you didn't read it with comprehension.

Not every case will present itself as a clear cut choice between 100% right and 100% wrong. Sometimes cops will have to guess, and no one wants them to guess wrong. But ffs, no one sensible wants to give the cops free rein to fire at will.

Cops aren't allowed to pre-emptively shoot people. They must wait until there is an apparent threat to their lives or the lives of others before they open fire, and that's a good thing.

Sometimes the cops will be taken by surprise. Sometimes someone will get hurt. And sometimes a cop might be killed. But allowing cops to shoot citizens when there is no apparent threat is not acceptable to anyone who isn't a fan of police states.

The point is you seem to consider the outcome we got as superior to the cop shooting.

It was superior. The cops didn't pre-emptively kill someone.

Maybe an analogy will help get my point across.

Years ago I was riding my bike past a house with a fenced yard and a dog on the porch. As I rode past, the dog started barking, wiggled past the gate, ran to catch up, and bit me on the hip. I yelled and the dog backed off. I had a nasty bruise and abrasion. It sucked, and the thought crossed my mind that if only I'd known the dog was a biter I could have taken steps to defend myself.

That doesn't mean it would have been okay if, instead of the incident playing out as it did, I'd pulled out a gun and shot the dog before it ran up and bit me. Why, you might ask? Because if I'd shot the dog before it posed a danger to my life and safety, I would have been in the wrong.

Hindsight informs us that the guy in the OP was an attacker. That doesn't mean the cop would have been justified in shooting him before he attacked.

The law agrees with you--in Iran. Not in any civilized country.

Every civilized country has laws regarding the use of lethal force by the police. Some of them give the police a lot of leeway to shoot civilians; most of them don't. Some of them don't even give the cops guns. So don't try telling me that any civilized country would allow the police to fire at will before a suspect poses a threat. That's simply not true.
 
The point is you seem to consider the outcome we got as superior to the cop shooting.
Everyone lived. No one seems to have suffered permanent injuries. Why wouldn't a normal human being consider that outcome superior to one where someone gets killed?
 
The police of course should avoid pulling their guns at any slight hint of confrontation.
This will need an inquiry which would ask, what were the partners doing at the point their female partner was attacked.
What were the exact sequence of events.
Were her partners slow in responding? Ideally they should have all been onto the unarmed man immediately. One may speculate that she approached the man who turned violent and things happend fast. It's hard to say until an inquiry in carried out.
Do they need to train more in self defence? This in turn would reduce the need for weapons when arresting an unarmed dangerous criminal.
 
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