Can someone own a culture? Why should 'appropriation' be inappropriate?

[Metaphor]

About a music festival that uses Native American-style aesthetic in its promotion, from a blogger who thinks it's racist.

Over the past couple of weeks, brand new New Year's Eve music festival Beyond the Valley has found itself fielding - or more accurately, ignoring - criticism that the basis for its marketing campaign is in cultural appropriation. Basically, that they're jacking the imagery of Native American culture to look cool.

Cultural appropriation still seems widely misunderstood, but essentially, it's a subtle form of racism. It's not shouting slurs at people for the colour of their skin, nor forcing them to drink at separate water fountains, but it's just as insidious. It happens when someone sees the symbols and traditions of another culture and, without understanding them or honouring them, adopts them for themselves for aesthetic value, making them seem meaningless.

Although the blogger lost me when he called cultural appropriation 'racism', the sentiment is shared by many (at least on the left). I've read similar pearl-clutching histrionics about Katy Perry dressing up like a geisha and Miley Cyrus "twerking" (and apparently, paying dancers to dance makes them 'props', if the dancers are Black and they're dancing in a White singer's musical number). I've read a rambling and mealy-mouthed piece on Jezebel (or Feministing, I can't remember which) criticising Lorde for criticising hip hop culture (criticising something Black people are associated with is, of course, racist).

I don't know where to begin with my questions, because I confess I'm bewildered as to why there ought to be any questions at all. Artists appropriate everything all the time. It's neither immoral nor unusual. It's how art works.

Is appropriation only something White people can be guilty of?

 

[dystopian]

Is appropriation only something White people can be guilty of?

No; just look at Japan's appropriation of white culture; which can often just be confusing to westerners.

That said; generally, the people who claim it's a subtle form of racism are wrong; it is more often than not in fact a compliment of said culture. As in, "I like this a lot, you guys are cool. I want to be cool like you too."

It's only a problem occasionally, either 1) either when a careless such display touches on some cultural nerves (like say, donning some culturally important costume that one's only supposed to be worn at funerals, and then having a public orgy in it). This isn't racism as such, but it's insensitive. Not a huge problem. Or 2), when someone clearly does it in a mocking fashion. Like say, donning traditional Chinese garb and then going around saying "Ching-chong" all the time or some shit. This is obviously racist and problematic.

 

[NobleSavage]

It's not racist, but it can be funny!

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Metephor,

How much do you know about the history of music and the music industry in the US?

 

[bigfield]

I don't know where to begin with my questions, because I confess I'm bewildered as to why there ought to be any questions at all. Artists appropriate everything all the time. It's neither immoral nor unusual. It's how art works.

One day, someone will get the bright idea to use Western military medals and ribbons as items of jewellery. A very large number of Westerners will be outraged and offended, and the rest will wonder why they are so worked up over a bit of art.

I wonder if the young, middle-class, Melbourne hipsters will come to the defence of their own culture's restricted symbols.

 

[NobleSavage]

nm

 

[Derec]

So is a black ballerina or an Asian classical musician "cultural appropriation" as well, or only when white people do it (by for example daring to belly dance)?

 

[Metaphor]

I don't know where to begin with my questions, because I confess I'm bewildered as to why there ought to be any questions at all. Artists appropriate everything all the time. It's neither immoral nor unusual. It's how art works.

One day, someone will get the bright idea to use Western military medals and ribbons as items of jewellery. A very large number of Westerners will be outraged and offended, and the rest will wonder why they are so worked up over a bit of art.

I wonder if the young, middle-class, Melbourne hipsters will come to the defence of their own culture's restricted symbols.

Why should anyone be offended if someone else made a facsimile of a war medal and wore it as jewelry? No one owns the idea of war medals.

 

[Metaphor]

Metephor,

How much do you know about the history of music and the music industry in the US?

How can I possibly answer that? Somewhere between 'more than nothing' and 'music historian' I should imagine.

What difference does it make though? If certain musical styles arose in certain (sub)cultures, so what? Who makes the decision that someone owns those ideas and 'outsiders' are not welcome?

Indeed, it smacks of simple racism to me. Many important movements in the history of the visual arts emerged from White Europe, but it would be naked racism to say that only White Europeans should or can paint in a particular style.

 

[Derec]

Face of a "cultural appropriator"

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Metephor,

How much do you know about the history of music and the music industry in the US?

How can I possibly answer that? Somewhere between 'more than nothing' and 'music historian' I should imagine.

What difference does it make though? If certain musical styles arose in certain (sub)cultures, so what? Who makes the decision that someone owns those ideas and 'outsiders' are not welcome?

Indeed, it smacks of simple racism to me. Many important movements in the history of the visual arts emerged from White Europe, but it would be naked racism to say that only White Europeans should or can paint in a particular style.

before you get all emotional and feeling all persecuted

Calm down

You and I may agree on a whole lot more than you think.

As a black woman who, as a child, felt she had to hide her love of country music from the blackness police, I can very easily understand your frustration,

But I would still like to know what you know about musical history or are you looking at this as a ahistrical event with no precedent.

 

[Metaphor]

But I would still like to know what you know about musical history or are you looking at this as a ahistrical event with no precedent.

I know that certain musical styles have roots in particular cultures (and not just ethnicity based ones), from the Negro spiritual to prog rock.

My thesis supervisor was a lesbian but she also loved American country music, and she knew there was a bit of a conflict there.

 

[doubtingt]

It's not racist, but it can be funny!

View attachment 907

White guys definitely should not be discouraged from dressing this way, if they choose to. It is like a very informative neon sign telling the rest of us "Warning!, I'm a total douchebag."

Oops, I might be a sexist for saying "douchebag", though at least some feminists would disagree and say that douchebags are gross and themselves sexist, so its a good term as an insult.

 

[repoman]

I think that if you have a person who uses another culture's or race's musical or other style for profit while actively hating or demeaning that culture he should be called on it big time.




This clip is not related to my comment, but it is some high level satire...

 

[maxparrish]

But I would still like to know what you know about musical history or are you looking at this as a ahistrical event with no precedent.

I know that certain musical styles have roots in particular cultures (and not just ethnicity based ones), from the Negro spiritual to prog rock.

My thesis supervisor was a lesbian but she also loved American country music, and she knew there was a bit of a conflict there.

I know how distressing that is. Did you know they let black people sing opera? I know, shocking.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I asked about knowledge of musical history in the US because you will never understand the resentment if you don't understand past treatment. American music is child of practically every other continent on the globe. That music was then commoditized and sold back to the very lands where it found its root. That in and of itself is problematic but on top of that, up until recently, only on group got to profit from the commoditization and that one group, to add insult to injury, didn't thank or recognize the other groups. The pattern went like this: disparage the music, exoticize the music, commoditize the music, assimilate the music. Once assimilated, forget about whoever originated the music.

this history has sown bitter seeds among communities of color and some rather destructive behaviors. And it is this resentment that blinds people to what music, good music, is suppose to do, enlighten, enliven, and bring together. Music, when left to its own devices, transcends difference and propagates union and communion. But that can only happen when all involve respect the music, and that includes its history and its musicians.

 

[Axulus]

I asked about knowledge of musical history in the US because you will never understand the resentment if you don't understand past treatment. American music is child of practically every other continent on the globe. That music was then commoditized and sold back to the very lands where it found its root. That in and of itself is problematic

Can you elaborate on the problem here, as I'm not getting it.

but on top of that, up until recently, only on group got to profit from the commoditization and that one group,

You sure about that? No one from the group that originated the music profited at all?

to add insult to injury, didn't thank or recognize the other groups. The pattern went like this: disparage the music, exoticize the music, commoditize the music, assimilate the music. Once assimilated, forget about whoever originated the music.

this history has sown bitter seeds among communities of color and some rather destructive behaviors. And it is this resentment that blinds people to what music, good music, is suppose to do, enlighten, enliven, and bring together. Music, when left to its own devices, transcends difference and propagates union and communion. But that can only happen when all involve respect the music, and that includes its history and its musicians.

Who gets to decide what good music is supposed to do? Is there a good music standards board?

 

[Axulus]

One day, someone will get the bright idea to use Western military medals and ribbons as items of jewellery. A very large number of Westerners will be outraged and offended, and the rest will wonder why they are so worked up over a bit of art.

I wonder if the young, middle-class, Melbourne hipsters will come to the defence of their own culture's restricted symbols.

Why should anyone be offended if someone else made a facsimile of a war medal and wore it as jewelry? No one owns the idea of war medals.

Because certain symbols are held in high esteem by various groups. When someone misappropriates the symbol or disrespects it, it is usually seen as poor taste and offensive to those who hold the symbol in high regard.

 

[Unbeatable]

This discussion on appropriation is pretty much guaranteed to be more informative than anything you'll find on TFT.

Is appropriation only something White people can be guilty of?

Probably not, but it seems like there may be good reasons for it to only be considered a problem when members of the cultural majority (which in the West just happens to usually be white people) do it to minorities:

from aforementioned thread:

The problem is that by placing one's ability to borrow whatever thing they find pretty/cool/interesting over the knowledge that that thing has meaning and is not a simple accessory usually only flies when you're part of the cultural norm. When you borrow towards groups with greater power, you're simply assimilating, and if you screw it up, joke is on you, you don't get to join the country club. When you borrow from groups with less power and representation and screw it up, the people who are affected by aren't likely to make up the majority of hiring companies, money lenders, networking invitations, and so forth. In short, you can get off scot-free because you don't have to play nice to the people with power over your lives. Cultural appropriation is a symptom of unequal power systems, rather than it's cause or the main problem it produces. Ignoring someone's cultural values simply because you can reinforces the power system.

 

[Axulus]

This discussion on appropriation is pretty much guaranteed to be more informative than anything you'll find on TFT.


Probably not, but it seems like there may be good reasons for it to only be considered a problem when members of the cultural majority (which in the West just happens to usually be white people) do it to minorities:

from aforementioned thread:

The problem is that by placing one's ability to borrow whatever thing they find pretty/cool/interesting over the knowledge that that thing has meaning and is not a simple accessory usually only flies when you're part of the cultural norm. When you borrow towards groups with greater power, you're simply assimilating, and if you screw it up, joke is on you, you don't get to join the country club. When you borrow from groups with less power and representation and screw it up, the people who are affected by aren't likely to make up the majority of hiring companies, money lenders, networking invitations, and so forth. In short, you can get off scot-free because you don't have to play nice to the people with power over your lives. Cultural appropriation is a symptom of unequal power systems, rather than it's cause or the main problem it produces. Ignoring someone's cultural values simply because you can reinforces the power system.

How does a group get to obtain ownership of something, and how is the group defined? Are groups defined based on their race/skin color? For example, is it prefectly fine when West Coast blacks adopt symbols and culture that originated from East Coast or Southern Blacks and perhaps profit off of it, but a negative when whites do the same? Is it because they share skin color and thus there is some sort of skin color group ownership of symbols and culture?