Caninephiles in Colorado flout the law: service animal fraud

[beero1000]

This is how it works. First, you (I am not referring to anyone in particular) classify people. Next, you find some fault with some of the people in one of the classified groups. Then, you blame all of the members of the group for the fault. Finally, when called out on this by a member of the group who does not actually have the fault, you say you never meant to include him/her (obviously...).

This nonsense happens all the time, everywhere, and it is fucking depressing.

Actually you have some of the steps backwards... it goes like this:

First, you (and I do mean you and everyone else), judges an individual based upon their actions, or the effect of their actions upon you. This is called Incident Management.
Second, you categorize the incident and store into long term memory various attributes about the individual, the incident, and other metrics. this is called Problem Management.
Third, you develop rules for dealing with future incidents, relating to how you deal with other individuals and situations. That is called Risk Management.

The things you do to mitigate risk in your life is based on your skills of incident and problem management.

If a set of characteristics keeps coming up in incidents and you fail to engage in adequate problem management, you are probably a SJW.
If you over-categorize and implement for too extreme mitigations on too broad a group, you are probably a racist.

I really don't get using "social justice warrior" as a pejorative - especially juxtaposed with racism here - do you really see them as analogous? Why wouldn't every normal person think of themselves as pro social justice? It's like saying, no, those anti-murder people have gone too far this time, we need to be a little bit more pro-murder. Not too pro-murder, of course, that would look bad, but just a bit more...

 

[ronburgundy]

My dog services me in exchange for peanut butter, but I'd never have him do it at the mall. That's just sick.

 

[Malintent]

Actually you have some of the steps backwards... it goes like this:

First, you (and I do mean you and everyone else), judges an individual based upon their actions, or the effect of their actions upon you. This is called Incident Management.
Second, you categorize the incident and store into long term memory various attributes about the individual, the incident, and other metrics. this is called Problem Management.
Third, you develop rules for dealing with future incidents, relating to how you deal with other individuals and situations. That is called Risk Management.

The things you do to mitigate risk in your life is based on your skills of incident and problem management.

If a set of characteristics keeps coming up in incidents and you fail to engage in adequate problem management, you are probably a SJW.
If you over-categorize and implement for too extreme mitigations on too broad a group, you are probably a racist.

I really don't get using "social justice warrior" as a pejorative - especially juxtaposed with racism here - do you really see them as analogous? Why wouldn't every normal person think of themselves as pro social justice? It's like saying, no, those anti-murder people have gone too far this time, we need to be a little bit more pro-murder. Not too pro-murder, of course, that would look bad, but just a bit more...

not a pejorative.. at least, not explicitly... SJW and racist are being used here to describe polar opposites.. one of being over-permissive and one of being non-permissive, with respect to pre-judging a person based on their cultural affiliation. SJW's represent "everyone is unique and special" while racists represent "everyone is part of a categorized group"

 

[JonA]

My take:

Everyone has different interests and concerns. This is a forum for people to discuss them.

Those who don't share in those interests and concerns aren't required to participate.

I would guess I find 99% of the shit on this board dumb as fuck. Being a civilized human, though, I think it not necessarily my place to constantly remind people how stupid I think their topics are.

As for the topic, our neighbor has two very energetic dogs. Sometimes they bark. I don't mind it too much because it's never at night and the fun of watching my cats shit themselves is worth the occasional noise. That I said, I've had other experiences with dog owners that are less pleasant, and I do get rather ticked at people with no legitimate need bringing their fucking dogs into the place where I am buying food.

 

[TSwizzle]

As for the topic, our neighbor has two very energetic dogs. Sometimes they bark. I don't mind it too much because it's never at night and the fun of watching my cats shit themselves is worth the occasional noise.

My neighbor has a small dog, a pug I think. It makes more noise than its size suggests it would be capable, yappy little fucker. I don't know why she has a dog, she's away from home all day and goes off at weekends and leaves it home with a relative to stop by. I've had to jump into her yard and give the dog water on really hot days after the dog has drank all of it's water. Sometimes the dog has no shade and it's F-100+. She puts the dog out to shit and when it wants back in it yaps until she can be bothered letting it in. This happens early morning and late at night, most days so you can forget about sleeping in at the weekend. I see so many inconsiderate dog owners letting their dogs use people's front yard as a toilet. It's disgusting. And I caught a dog owner putting a bag of dog shit in my trash can. When I told them to remove it they were all bent out of shape. Idiot.

That I said, I've had other experiences with dog owners that are less pleasant, and I do get rather ticked at people with no legitimate need bringing their fucking dogs into the place where I am buying food.

And nine times out of ten, it's not a service animal. It's some inconsiderate idiot.

 

[Rhea]

Wow, that's a serious problem. Well, problemS... both listed here. The non-trained dog attacking the actual service dog and also the many untrained dogs in grocery stores. Service dogs and their owners go through so much to make sure they are not going to impact others and then their mission is completely tanked by a lack of regulation that allows the selfish owners to cause problems in their name.

It sounds like a certification program through animal control with state-issued credentials would be a benefit to everyone involved.

 

[laughing dog]

Dog owners make their dogs everyone's problem.

Are you really that narrowminded?

 

[laughing dog]

I really don't get using "social justice warrior" as a pejorative - especially juxtaposed with racism here - do you really see them as analogous? Why wouldn't every normal person think of themselves as pro social justice? It's like saying, no, those anti-murder people have gone too far this time, we need to be a little bit more pro-murder. Not too pro-murder, of course, that would look bad, but just a bit more...

not a pejorative.. at least, not explicitly... SJW and racist are being used here to describe polar opposites.. one of being over-permissive and one of being non-permissive, with respect to pre-judging a person based on their cultural affiliation. SJW's represent "everyone is unique and special" while racists represent "everyone is part of a categorized group"

You sound like a SJW in denial.

 

[TV and credit cards]

If you regularly walk around a lake, say about three miles and there is what you consider moderate foot traffic, on a percentage basis, how often do you expect to be annoyed by people passing in the other direction?

It's been my experience, no small portion of dog owners are similar to people who drive aggressively. I sense this fuck you attitude of "get out of my way". Am I wrong? Am I imagining this? Do you dare to agree?
Your dog is your business. No one else should have to accommodate it. If you are a dog owner and you and your loved one are out in public, keep the bitch on a short leash.

I have no problem with dogs being anywhere. They are probably cleaner than most humans I come in contact with. But I don't wonder if the human is going to bite me. And humans understand personal space.

 

[Metaphor]

Dog owners make their dogs everyone's problem.

Are you really that narrowminded?

I'm that exasperated that some dog owners cannot acknowledge the faults of some people in their own community. And, like a world obsessed with sports, I hate the implicit condescension that there's something wrong with me because I don't care who won the sportball and I don't care for your hellhound pawing my crotch.

 

[RavenSky]

was this thread about dog owners in general?

or about service/therapy animals in general?

or that very small percentage of people abusing laws about service animals to take their pets were it isn't allowed to be?

I'm confused.

 

[Metaphor]

was this thread about dog owners in general?

or about service/therapy animals in general?

or that very small percentage of people abusing laws about service animals to take their pets were it isn't allowed to be?

I'm confused.

I made a post about companion animal fraud and I made a jibe at dog owners while doing it.

This was taken with extreme umbrage though I can hardly see it as any different as making a jibe about dentists (which I do) or a jibe about SUV drivers (which I do) or any other group defined on a single characteristic.

Now, companion animal fraud was not even something I was aware that existed and so I thought it'd be an interesting topic.

 

[beero1000]

#NotAllDogs

 

[RavenSky]

Now, companion animal fraud was not even something I was aware that existed and so I thought it'd be an interesting topic.

It is. That is why I responded to that part of it.

I see both sides of it in my job.

The interesting difficulty in regulating it is that doctor-patient privilege is also involved.

- - - Updated - - -

#NotAllDogs

CRJQ

 

[laughing dog]

Service dogs are important and valuable working dogs for those people who are unlucky enough to need them but lucky enough to have one. They take lots of training and should never be approached or touched by anyone without the explicit consent of the master - those dogs are working. The people with service dogs need and rely on them to get them through the day.

As a dog lover and owner, I would never take my dogs everywhere for a number of reasons. First, it is not fair to take put any being (human or canine) where he or she cannot reasonable handle the situation. Second, dogs don't belong everywhere I go. Third, there people who are quite fearful of dogs and I see no reason to needlessly expose them to their fears. Finally, there are enough dog-idiots and general shitheads that my dogs and I don't need to deal with.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think the real answer is licensing of service animals.

Note that this does not need to disclose what the disability is--it doesn't matter what aid the animal is trained to provide. What matters is if it's had the behaving-in-public training. Either the facility that does the training should be certified or the animal should be tested to a reasonable degree to see if it behaves. (Put it in an environment that will tend to cause misbehavior, see if it behaves.)

 

[RavenSky]

I think the real answer is licensing of service animals.

Note that this does not need to disclose what the disability is--it doesn't matter what aid the animal is trained to provide. What matters is if it's had the behaving-in-public training. Either the facility that does the training should be certified or the animal should be tested to a reasonable degree to see if it behaves. (Put it in an environment that will tend to cause misbehavior, see if it behaves.)

Which does not address emotional support/therapy animals. These are just as important, but are generally not trained in the same way as service animals.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think the real answer is licensing of service animals.

Note that this does not need to disclose what the disability is--it doesn't matter what aid the animal is trained to provide. What matters is if it's had the behaving-in-public training. Either the facility that does the training should be certified or the animal should be tested to a reasonable degree to see if it behaves. (Put it in an environment that will tend to cause misbehavior, see if it behaves.)

Which does not address emotional support/therapy animals. These are just as important, but are generally not trained in the same way as service animals.

And I'm saying that in terms of behavior in public they should be. The rules against animals in public are there for a reason, if we are going to grant exceptions we should minimize the problems they cause.

 

[Malintent]

Which does not address emotional support/therapy animals. These are just as important, but are generally not trained in the same way as service animals.

And I'm saying that in terms of behavior in public they should be. The rules against animals in public are there for a reason, if we are going to grant exceptions we should minimize the problems they cause.

There should not be exceptions.. Service animals are an important tool for disabled folks to get around in public. they are generally extremely well trained such that they never cause a problem for anyone... no more than the wheelchair itself does.. which I think pretty much everyone understands to tolerate and even assist if needed... therapy dogs are not even the slightest way similar. We have no other precedents for there being exceptions or special provisions for the mentally disabled to function more easily in public.. .we don't have ordinances that require a water fountain on every block (or anywhere at all) so that the mentally ill can take their prescription pills with a drink of water. We don't have 'rant rooms' made publically available so they can go scream at the voices in their head while shopping at the grocery store... So why require businesses to accommodate their pets? ALL fluffy, friendly animals with a cute face are known to provide a psychological advantage to their owners.. no training needed. There is nothing special about a fluffy doggie that just makes a person feel good to be with.

It is either a highly trained service animal that can function in public places that normally would be an inappropriate place to bring a pet, or they aren't (and don't belong there).

 

[ronburgundy]

I think the real answer is licensing of service animals.

Note that this does not need to disclose what the disability is--it doesn't matter what aid the animal is trained to provide. What matters is if it's had the behaving-in-public training. Either the facility that does the training should be certified or the animal should be tested to a reasonable degree to see if it behaves. (Put it in an environment that will tend to cause misbehavior, see if it behaves.)

Which does not address emotional support/therapy animals. These are just as important, but are generally not trained in the same way as service animals.

Is feeling less sad while at the grocery store "just as important" as not getting hit by a bus on your way there? It is not just as important that an emotional support dog get the same exemptions as a seeing-eye dog.

Regardless, whether the animal gets the kind of training and licensing Loren is referring to should depend upon whether it will be given a licence to exempt it from general pet regulations. A therapy pet without that training should not be allowed where other pets are not.