Career changers in Dev

[Jokodo]

Yes, that's me.

Or it might not, depending on how well I sell myself. I have a background in academia in a field that's widely conceived as part of the humanities though in terms of its methodology, it's arguably closer to the sciences than to most of the humanities (linguistics, to be precise; if you want to debate my characterisation, that's a topic for another thread). I also have 5+ years of programming, most of it in language often considered as the go to solution for people who don't really want to learn to program (but which is nonetheless mentioned as a definite or desired qualification in many competitions). But most of this was more or less hobbyist, while I did use my skills in the context of my work, this was never what I was primarily paid for. With all that hype about Natural Language Processing and more recently Natural Language Understanding, there's a lot of companies out there who look for someone who can combine a linguistic background and programming - but my impression is that most of them want seasoned programmers who know a thing or two about linguistics, not linguists who know a thing or two about programming.

So my moves are: sell myself as a seasoned programmers, or sell them the idea that a linguist who knows a thing or two about programming is actually what they want. Any ideas on how to go about the latter in particular?

 

[rousseau]

Depends on a few factors:
- how much you actually know about programming
- how well your programming knowledge fits the mould of the job you're applying for

Development is a pretty thoroughly hard skill, imo, and if someone wants a dev with a bit of knowledge of linguistics, rather than a linguist with some knowledge of dev, that's very likely what they actually want. Hiring someone with minimal programming skills into a programming role is a hard sell. I've seen it done by managers who had no other options, and in all cases it's made things tough for both the host team, and the candidate.

That said, if you've been programming for 5+ years as a hobbyist, that doesn't necessarily sound like you have minimal programming experience, and I'd think if you can find a role that your skill-level is suited for you might be surprised at how marketable you are (in general, good programmers are hard to find). Even if a job posting looks too advanced, if it's within reach apply anyway.

Anyway, long story short if I were in your position I'd probably try to sell your programming skills over your linguist skills, given that you have some chops.

 

[Underseer]

Yes, that's me.

Or it might not, depending on how well I sell myself. I have a background in academia in a field that's widely conceived as part of the humanities though in terms of its methodology, it's arguably closer to the sciences than to most of the humanities (linguistics, to be precise; if you want to debate my characterisation, that's a topic for another thread). I also have 5+ years of programming, most of it in language often considered as the go to solution for people who don't really want to learn to program (but which is nonetheless mentioned as a definite or desired qualification in many competitions). But most of this was more or less hobbyist, while I did use my skills in the context of my work, this was never what I was primarily paid for. With all that hype about Natural Language Processing and more recently Natural Language Understanding, there's a lot of companies out there who look for someone who can combine a linguistic background and programming - but my impression is that most of them want seasoned programmers who know a thing or two about linguistics, not linguists who know a thing or two about programming.

So my moves are: sell myself as a seasoned programmers, or sell them the idea that a linguist who knows a thing or two about programming is actually what they want. Any ideas on how to go about the latter in particular?

Wouldn't your description of linguistics more accurately describe sociology?

I might be biased because I learned FORTRAN from a sociologist.

PS[ent]mdash[/ent]if you sell yourself as someone who knows programming, the more choice jobs are going to test your knowledge pretty thoroughly, so you'd better be able to back that up unless you're going for a junior/starter position.

 

[rousseau]

Yes, that's me.

Or it might not, depending on how well I sell myself. I have a background in academia in a field that's widely conceived as part of the humanities though in terms of its methodology, it's arguably closer to the sciences than to most of the humanities (linguistics, to be precise; if you want to debate my characterisation, that's a topic for another thread). I also have 5+ years of programming, most of it in language often considered as the go to solution for people who don't really want to learn to program (but which is nonetheless mentioned as a definite or desired qualification in many competitions). But most of this was more or less hobbyist, while I did use my skills in the context of my work, this was never what I was primarily paid for. With all that hype about Natural Language Processing and more recently Natural Language Understanding, there's a lot of companies out there who look for someone who can combine a linguistic background and programming - but my impression is that most of them want seasoned programmers who know a thing or two about linguistics, not linguists who know a thing or two about programming.

So my moves are: sell myself as a seasoned programmers, or sell them the idea that a linguist who knows a thing or two about programming is actually what they want. Any ideas on how to go about the latter in particular?

Wouldn't your description of linguistics more accurately describe sociology?

I might be biased because I learned FORTRAN from a sociologist.

PS[ent]mdash[/ent]if you sell yourself as someone who knows programming, the more choice jobs are going to test your knowledge pretty thoroughly, so you'd better be able to back that up unless you're going for a junior/starter position.

If he knows enough about programming that his programming skill works to his advantage then his application should accurately reflect his skill-level. He shouldn't be over-selling his skills, he should be trying to find a fit for his skill-level.

IMO, one of the core components of integrating with a dev team is being honest about 'what I can do right now, and what I will be able to learn later'. If you're not a superstar yet your team lead or manager needs to know what type of load you can handle, and so this type of honesty should in theory work to his advantage.

Granted if his programming experience isn't high you're right that he'd probably be looking at an entry-level position, I'd agree that shooting for an intermediate role that you can't handle is less ideal than finding a correct fit with the notion that you'll be able to grow over time (which is common in the field).

 

[steve_bank]

Some companies recruit humanities grads looking for people with a broad background. People with broad reasoning skills.

If I was running a company I might give preference to humanities with a few business courses over business majors. A lot of what you need to learn is on the job. If you know how to learn you can read books.

 

[Jokodo]

Thanks very much for all the replies.

I'm currently of having a job offer and a half in the two profiles.

The full offer is as a linguist who can program. Sounds very interesting too in terms of what they're doing. Practically the only downside is that it's in a city almost 1000 km from home. Which is a biggie since I have a kid and would much prefer our current 50/50 arrangement re childcare and definitely don't want to give up this place for good (and if I can't, child support is due on top of the expense of a second flat and at least biweekly travel).

The half offer is as a programmer who can linguistics, with the caveat that, while I can make my code throw results on individual problems, the way I structure it isn't what's required to integrate it into large projects. Since they deem that a crucial component, what they're offering instead of a job on the spot is an internship-slash-bootcamp for a couple weeks, and if my learning curve during that period is promising enough, possibly a job offer after that. The big upside is that the office is half an hour away on public transport.

And of course, I'm expected to decide by yesterday...