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Catastrophe

SLD

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Or why Donald Trump's Presidency could lead to disaster for the nation in unexpected ways

Trump's presidency could end ugly, very ugly. Trump is not a fascist like Adolf Hitler, but he is much like an autocrat, particularly Kaiser Wilhelm. I’ve been reading Catastrophe, 1914: Europe Goes to War, by Max Hastings. It is amazing how suddenly the crisis came upon them. We look back and think it was all inevitable, that the drift towards war was unstoppable before the July Crisis. But to the participants it never seemed that way, and while the seeds had been set for awhile, it didn’t have to end in catastrophe. At several points along the way, different decisions would have led to very different outcomes, even as late as July 1914. But they didn’t because of poor leadership at the very top by Kaiser Wilhelm. The same is true today. The seeds of future conflicts are all around us, and we have a President whose leadership skills are extremely lacking. Like Trump, the Kaiser changed his mind a lot. On July 5th he told his foreign minister Bethmann to use all means to prevent the crisis from exploding into an International conflict. Yet the next day he gave Vienna the famous "blank check," that spurred them towards war with Serbia and of course with the rest of the world ultimately. His comments on state dispatches show his instability. "Fool yourself Mr. Sazonov!" (Russian Foreign minister). "British insolence!" He loved the exclamation point. This is like Trump's Twitter. When he heard of the Serbian response to the ultimatum on July 27th, he figured it was good enough to avert war. But on the 28th he wrote, the ball is rolling and it can no longer be stopped. Hastings compares him to an amateur actor struggling to pay a monarch's role, and always missing his cue and saying the wrong lines while all the time being uncertain what his role should be. The other actors marched around him, and kept the ball going towards the catastrophe that was unfolding. And so it could be with Trump. He seems to be similar to the Kaiser, out of his depth and erratic i his behavior. As of yet, he has not been tested. But he could be. The seeds of conflict with Iran are there. They could spread to Russia if not contained properly. The seeds of conflict are sown as well with China and directly with Russia in other contexts. If they get out of control how will Trump react. What will his Twitter show. Will he say something impulsive that can’t be taken back? Will he back a dictator like Kim, or the Mullahs, into a corner where there is no way out but to attack?

And how does he handle a serious crisis within the US? Will he snap if Dems block his scotus pick, or shut down the government over the budget? I truly fear that his erratic behavior and the people around him like Pompeo and Bolton who could push him towards drastic action even against his instincts. As long as there are no serious cris, we will get through this. But this could end badly, very badly, if not.
 
I think US military have enough sense to prevent catastrophe. Yes, we have president and his White House filled with crazy deplorables, but the rest of the people who run things are basically the same and they are waiting when Trump is out and things back to normal.
 
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They said Bush was a catastrophe too, and the world survived. I don't think even Trump can really fuck things up beyond repair.
 
They said Bush was a catastrophe too, and the world survived. I don't think even Trump can really fuck things up beyond repair.

Some days I feel like that. Then I remember that in the '30s, a lot of Germans felt like that...
 
I've started Richard Evan's trilogy of the Third Reich, and the Kaiser comes off as a mediocrity who was full of himself.

Like someone we know...
 
Or why Donald Trump's Presidency could lead to disaster for the nation in unexpected ways

Trump's presidency could end ugly, very ugly. Trump is not a fascist like Adolf Hitler, but he is much like an autocrat, particularly Kaiser Wilhelm. I’ve been reading Catastrophe, 1914: Europe Goes to War, by Max Hastings. It is amazing how suddenly the crisis came upon them. We look back and think it was all inevitable, that the drift towards war was unstoppable before the July Crisis. But to the participants it never seemed that way, and while the seeds had been set for awhile, it didn’t have to end in catastrophe. At several points along the way, different decisions would have led to very different outcomes, even as late as July 1914. But they didn’t because of poor leadership at the very top by Kaiser Wilhelm. The same is true today. The seeds of future conflicts are all around us, and we have a President whose leadership skills are extremely lacking. Like Trump, the Kaiser changed his mind a lot. On July 5th he told his foreign minister Bethmann to use all means to prevent the crisis from exploding into an International conflict. Yet the next day he gave Vienna the famous "blank check," that spurred them towards war with Serbia and of course with the rest of the world ultimately. His comments on state dispatches show his instability. "Fool yourself Mr. Sazonov!" (Russian Foreign minister). "British insolence!" He loved the exclamation point. This is like Trump's Twitter. When he heard of the Serbian response to the ultimatum on July 27th, he figured it was good enough to avert war. But on the 28th he wrote, the ball is rolling and it can no longer be stopped. Hastings compares him to an amateur actor struggling to pay a monarch's role, and always missing his cue and saying the wrong lines while all the time being uncertain what his role should be. The other actors marched around him, and kept the ball going towards the catastrophe that was unfolding. And so it could be with Trump. He seems to be similar to the Kaiser, out of his depth and erratic i his behavior. As of yet, he has not been tested. But he could be. The seeds of conflict with Iran are there. They could spread to Russia if not contained properly. The seeds of conflict are sown as well with China and directly with Russia in other contexts. If they get out of control how will Trump react. What will his Twitter show. Will he say something impulsive that can’t be taken back? Will he back a dictator like Kim, or the Mullahs, into a corner where there is no way out but to attack?

And how does he handle a serious crisis within the US? Will he snap if Dems block his scotus pick, or shut down the government over the budget? I truly fear that his erratic behavior and the people around him like Pompeo and Bolton who could push him towards drastic action even against his instincts. As long as there are no serious cris, we will get through this. But this could end badly, very badly, if not.

If your analogy is valid, then we should all remember is that World War 1 marked the end of the rule of the nobility in the West. The nobility had so thoroughly botched preventing World War 1 that Europe turned its back on the nobility and switched to liberal/secular democracies.

So if the most prominent liberal/secular democracy produces some kind of global disaster as a result of electing Fuckface von Clownstick, what will the net result be? Will the industrialized world decide that it no longer wants to allow the unwashed masses to call the shots in government? If so, what would the next form of government be?

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I've started Richard Evan's trilogy of the Third Reich, and the Kaiser comes off as a mediocrity who was full of himself.

Like someone we know...

Yes, like everyone who ever criticized Trump or Bush II!

We libtards criticize our betters because we are jealous of their towering intellect!
 
They said Bush was a catastrophe too, and the world survived. I don't think even Trump can really fuck things up beyond repair.

I prefer there be a higher bar for POTUS conduct than humanity's non-extinction.

As for Trump, he thrives on riling up his base. He hates the press like a scorned teenage girl suffering from sociopathy, and so his followers do too. While conservatives hating the media is nothing new, Trump has managed to take it to a dangerous new level. The media, and by extension, liberals, are The Enemies of The People. That is, those who oppose Trump are not worthy of being included among The People. The difference between The People, and the The People's enemies is pretty clear.

The People have certain rights guaranteed them. Those who are not The People, don't--along with the added and very important bonus of being a national security threat. Being an enemy of the United States is no small thing.

Now look at the Supreme Court makeup. One ruling adding another exception to the warrant requirement, and another ruling on a lesser requirement for suspicion is all it would take to begin hauling people in for things that are now decidedly unlawful. What form that could take is left to the imagination because it could happen in myriad ways. But consider this: a government agency like the FBI can actually go into another nation, without a warrant or any other prior notice to the foreign nation, forcibly grab a U.S. citizen, and bring him before the court.

So just extend that to U.S. citizens in the U.S. It's only doing something the government is already allowed to do in another circumstance. No big.

All things are permissible when national security is endangered by the enemies of the people.
 
I've started Richard Evan's trilogy of the Third Reich, and the Kaiser comes off as a mediocrity who was full of himself.

Like someone we know...

Bush was not full of himself and Trump is way way way below mediocrity. So I think we'll be OK.
 
I've started Richard Evan's trilogy of the Third Reich, and the Kaiser comes off as a mediocrity who was full of himself.

Like someone we know...
read it a few years ago. Great history. Haven’t re-read it since Trump. May need to go back to it.

But reading catastrophe is like reading present day history. The Kaiser reads like trump's tweets. "Dreadnoughts don’t have wheels. ''. So funny! He constantly changes his mind. He dashes between hot and cold. The bureaucrats really ran things. Moltke fumed that he wanted war against Russia and France but not against the damn Kaiser!

Maybe, as Barbos said, the military of today will stand up to him and make the right decision. True enough, the US military isn’t like Prussians or Austrian of 1914. They were full of warmongers. The present military leadership is very sensitive to their image and work hard to ensure domestic support. They’re war weary. But many of the leadership are due to be replaced soon. Trump’s been known to demand personal loyalty as a requirement of appointment. Could he stack the leadership with people he could make do his bidding? Hopefully not.
 
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