Causality, fact or fiction?

[fromderinside]

Doesn't mean uncountable at all. All that matters is there is remaining value is greater than any assignable measure, That is to say there will always be another unit to be counted when the highest assignable number has been alloted. Obviously a quantity or fraction is countable. That's never been in dispute, else it wouldn't be strictly quantifiable.

I would add that if there is no agent to assign a number the quantity is beyond counting. So for the things that have elements beyond human access, they probably should be considered infinite as well. My keys for infinite is the availability of an agent to assign a value as well as the quantity being beyond our maths.

If one doesn't know something is out there but one has reasonable justification for there to be stuff beyong out access to count then I call that quantity infinite. Its all about those unknowns we don't know about and those unknowns we know about but can't being to measure.

For instance we have reason to believe there is dark matter and dark energy but it is beyond our ability to quantify, therefore to the totality of stuff real and dark is infinite.

 

[Juma]

You are still not answering.

Take a wild ass guess. If the unversed had an origin, where did the mass come from? Obviously you can not answer it, it requires you to challenge your conclusion.

If you are not religious either the inverse came from nothing or it always was. It is a binary choice unless you have other alternatives. Do you?

Have the good grace to admit when you lose an argument.

The mass? mass is a property of the universe. If something sets up the universe it wouldnt have problem designing it so that particles behaves in that way.

 

[steve_bank]

You are still not answering.

Take a wild ass guess. If the unversed had an origin, where did the mass come from? Obviously you can not answer it, it requires you to challenge your conclusion.

If you are not religious either the inverse came from nothing or it always was. It is a binary choice unless you have other alternatives. Do you?

Have the good grace to admit when you lose an argument.

The mass? mass is a property of the universe. If something sets up the universe it wouldnt have problem designing it so that particles behaves in that way.

Sounds like Intelligent Design which was crafted to counter evolution.

ID postulates an unknown designer of humans, in other words god. You are still left with a designer who winked into existence out of nothing, or designer that preexisted the Earth that came from somewhere.

Two options, all the matter came from nowhere, or it always was and will be.

- - - Updated - - -

In an infinite universe by definition change always was and always will be.

"Always was" is a concept for children that can't think.

For any progression of change to exist the progression must begin.

My endless loop detector is sounding. No more to say to you.

 

[WAB]

Steve, you made a number of great points, but I want to cite one in particular. It's when you asked UM to "speculate". IOW, "go ahead, think of something, anything, and we can work on that..."

Officers in the field very frequently ask their subordinate officers, even enlisted men, to speculate, in the absence of definitive information. It is not science, but it opens up avenues of thought, possible pathways to finding clues, etc. A good leader wants, and in fact expects, the occasional imaginative speculation from subordinates.

That's all I'll say for now, though I'm chomping at the bit to get my two cents in.

 

[Speakpigeon]

Take a wild ass guess. If the unversed had an origin, where did the mass come from? Obviously you can not answer it, it requires you to challenge your conclusion.

If you are not religious either the inverse came from nothing or it always was. It is a binary choice unless you have other alternatives.

Talking about our universe proper, there's no reason whatsoever to assume it's the binary choice you indicate.

There are other options.

Just take a wild guess. If it's not from nothing and if it's not that it always was, where did the universe come from? Several possibilities still. Go on!
EB

 

[untermensche]

"Always was" is a concept for children that can't think.

For any progression of change to exist the progression must begin.

My endless loop detector is sounding. No more to say to you.

The idea of something "endless" being already completed is a contradiction.

It is possible to make a loop. It is not possible to make endless loops before breakfast.

 

[fromderinside]

Even children know that is possible. "here we go loop the loop"